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Originally Posted by whilhelm
i imagine so, if you take it literally.
as an analogy, though, how is it different from what you've just explained??
the point is - whether you use the nazis or any other sweeping cultural movement - the point is that we (people, in general) have demonstrated through history that we can be conditioned to behave a certain way & to treat people - and specific groups of people - a certain way.
the nazi's used the media, the church, toys & games for children - all to sweepingly creat a belief system in which people behaved a certain way toward a select group pg people.
i can't understand how difficult it is to find the relationship between that kind of conditioning to the kind of conditioning our culture is now experiencing regarding sex - and, specifically, sex with young girls.
we're all growing more & more comfortable with the idea. young boys - and old men - all have unlimited access to internet pornography, the overwhelmingly new popular theme of which is teen porn, barely legal girls - and now, thanks to the ACLU, simulated sex with pre-teen girls.
simultaneously, girls recieve the conditioning that you've described - and that this game provides. we teach girls that they are only as valuable as they are sexy. and we teach boys that girls are only as valuable as they are sexy. at the same time, we legitimize the attraction that men have for younger & younger girls - until we're no longer shocked.
and we build an entire culture that devalues girls, except for their ability to be used for sex.
i'm not suggesting that girls are being gassed the way jews had been, obviously.
but are you aware that there is - in the USA - a multi-million dollar market for children, pre-teen girls, who are shipped in from poor countries & sold as sex slaves to wealthy americans?
and that they perform surgery on those CHILDREN's vagina's to repair their torn hymens, so each customer gets a fresh 11 year old virgin?
nothing even close to the attrocities of nazi germany - really?
i would suggest that any culture that would pay money - much less big money - for that kind of documented sexual abuse of children, is a culture that has been conditioned using techniques not unlike those of hitler's regime.
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Regarding the sex trade and young women - its also a huge problem in Britain . Many women already know exactly what they are going to be doing, and indeed come here for that intent and purpose. It is only when they arrive, and the conditions in which they live and have to work, often in appalling accommadation, with little or no access to health services.
Many are illegal immigrants, who initially pay large amounts of money to get here. They are not used for weathly people, they are working in prostitution , therefore anybody is USING these women. Its very difficult for them to leave as many have already agreed to do this work in the country they previously resided. The problem is they were told lies and often the job they thought they would be doing is not the job they end up doing when they get here . If they have not got a passport , there is no choice for these women , too frightend to leave, nowhere to go and death threats .
Regarding surgery on the hymens of young children, yes it is terrible and in the case of a rape victim/sexual abuse it would be acceptable to do that surgery if later required .
But what must be remembered regarding this matter is that is happening anyway, women of certain religions who are having consentual sex with thier boyfriends - and who then go on to marry that boyfriend, are having a procedure involving the insertion of a "blood" capsual into the vagina , therefore on consumation of the wedding , the bride will have visable proof the hymen is no longer intact (the sheets viewed by both families). Without this happening, all sorts of mayhem will occur. The couple may see themselves as a different way to the parents, even if they are of that particular religion.
It could be also debated in cultures where it is acceptable for very young girls to marry - that , just because we are not of that religion, does that make it unacceptable for these young girls to be having sex with thier husbands!.
Also it is worth remembering that a hymen that is not intact can happen for many various reasons, a girl with a medical condition, todays physical activities , sport and horse riding and use from beginning of period of internal sanitary protection ....which i personally disapprove.
You say that we build an entire culture that devalues girls, yes i do agree to a certain extent but its really down to the individual man just how his opionions of women from an early age...how his father behaved around women, was his father divorced , was his father abusive to his mother. I really do think that this would be stemming from childhood.
On the other hand , certainly in the UK , where i live, there are many women who enjoy behaving like a man, eg: going out and drinking as many pints of beer as a man (its not unual for a man to drink 12 or 13 pints of beer in one evening, or more than that...swearing, sleeping with as many men as they can, and indeed fighting in the street like men. Great throngs of them out on a saturday or Friday night . The word used for women like this is LADETTE ...and thats how they want to behave and have chosen to behave . They are also buying porn mags , watching porno films, and it seems more than acceptable , just the norm even for most young women to have a variety of sex aids , making the man virtually redundant in all ways !!!.
In that case, it must be accepted that these women do not want to be seen as girly, feminine, potential housewives , the weaker sex ect .
My personal opionion is, they are making a rod for thier own backs ! as with the rising number of STD's which are reaching epidemic proportions here in the UK, women are losing thier fertility, they are having liver failure (through alcohol) they are not in stable relationships and because of the availability of women to just sleep with men have no respect for them, which i do not blame them and they are moving on after one night with these women . They also seem quite happy to have children when they are unmarried at 14 or 15 and by the time they are 25 have several children to different men.
The problem we have here is NOT just the media - you would have to ban every magazine, every film, ban tv, ban make up, ban going to school the list is endless. Another thing we have to remember girls body shapes are changing in the 1960's her in the UK womens body shapes were smaller, petite. I do have some knowledge on this matter as i worked in Marks and Spencers and regularly measured women for bra fittings ect. Todays young women 13, 14 and 15 in the UK is three sizes bigger in fact i see many schoolgirls with bodies and breasts of 40 year old women. They are not only developed in thier bodies , which means they are wanting and indeed having sex, but they somewhat more "older headed" .
I do think this comes down to your family life, if you have a good stable background , where there is respect and good manners ...sadly lacking in todays society. The children respect the parents and the parents interested in the child ...and the child learns about morals and having respect for herself that really is all that can be done.
Catherine