Women + Birth Control - Men = ?????!!!!!!!

**ItsASecret** · 03-18-2010 12:20 PM

It can be difficult to know sometimes what is true but I've read more than one source, that have seemed to be authoratative, that there is a "slant" to BC research. It is essentially driven by religious/cultural imperatives which still hold a belief and stigma regarding women's sexuality and reproductive freedom. This has been suspected of creating a sort hidden agenda, an attitude that BC and sex shouldn't be carefree and easy.

No doubt it can be hard to determine what to believe. In my personal studies I have seen countless places who love to slant bc studies so their their religious or cultural beliefs are pushed into the minds of others. Most of those end up being blogs, personal websites, or personal letters...which in my personal opinion cannot be trusted. I am taught in class to know how to analyze data how to analyze scientific articles and how to know when something is just too good to be true based on pure academia. I lean towards studies on official medical journal websites. Experiences on bc are subjective, and current always will be. But of course there is going to be conflicts of interest amongst individuals. But researchers are not sitting in their labs deliberately trying to find ways to make the pill a miserable concoction for women. They depend on the success of that drug to deliver their paychecks. They will not one day be like "yeah so...I figured out this compound that decreases sex drive so we should totally put it in the pill". No, the researchers are the ones doing the good work giving the raw data. Money drives drugs, it is a business, if anyone is going to slant bc it is going to be big pharma companies and their marketing schemes to release select data to further their real agenda of the billions to be made-that is obviously a place for many moral and ethical debates. That is not to say that everything they publish is going to be slanted but there are rules now in publishing that require all data good or bad to be available.

and puts baby and mother at higher risk, yet we continue this practice routinely because it allows greater ease of use for various monitors and machines, most of which are rarely actually needed but rack up the dollars.

Maybe I missed something but when a woman is pregnant or in labor those monitors and "machines" are used to make sure the mother and baby do not die. You know...monitoring fetal heart rate, mother's heart rate, BP, respiration, O2 sat levels and so on.

Yet even today many health care givers who can readily recite the signs of a heart attack in men, cannot tell you the different symptoms that a woman will exhibit.

There is a physiological difference?

We need more women and men in all phases of these sciences, who are not tainted by this kind of thinking.

Sorry but what phases are you referring to?

**Yazwoman** · 03-18-2010 12:44 PM

Just a quick comment to you , WC:
I know that I live near a major city, but if you go to certain Catholic hospitals in this area they will not cover BC besides rhythm. So there is definitely a religious slant on things. The right for that method is all up to the individual, but once again it's about control of women's bodies. I am in fear that with the influx of religious right politicians in the US that things will get worse for women's choice. When you eliminate choice, things get a bit messy.

I also agree that men and women should have equal opportunities in everything. After all, it takes two to make a child. Both should have responsibilities to prevent unwanted children. Yes, there are those women who will 'entrap' a man, or men who think that impregnating a woman is 'cool'. But I think that if a man were truly involved in taking a pill or medicine to help prevent unwanted kiddos, when they actually have a wanted child, he will feel a bigger part of the miracle of life. None of this "dip the wick" and go stuff...

In the end we will have to see if "the Male Pill" will catch on as well as it has (despite various side effects ) as it has for women.

I am very much enjoying this discussion. Thanks to everyone for participating.

**WildChild** · 03-18-2010 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by ItsASecret

Maybe I missed something but when a woman is pregnant or in labor those monitors and "machines" are used to make sure the mother and baby do not die. You know...monitoring fetal heart rate, mother's heart rate, BP, respiration, O2 sat levels and so on.

Having had two children, I did quite a bit of research and studied some midwifery. I also had some enlightening conversations with Drs, nurse practictioners and midwives. Much of the testing and monitoring that goes on throughout pregnancy has nothing to do with the health of the mother or fetus. In some case is detrimental. It has everything to do with dollars. I'm not going into whole the story right now although I think told here some time back, but during my second pregnancy I ended up without a care provider because I refused a chorionic villi and amniocentesis which they were ordering based only on my age (36). I had done my reseach and in conversation determined that my information was more up to date than theirs. I was later told by another medical professional that, that office ordered those tests for virtually every pregnant woman. They had invested a ton of money on equipment and needed to pay for it.

In labor laying you on your back, strapping on a monitor and leaving you lay there can cause complications, stalling labor and decreasing the effectiveness of labor and the mother's ability to handle the contractions without medication.

**ItsASecret** · 03-18-2010 05:12 PM

Much of the testing and monitoring that goes on throughout pregnancy has nothing to do with the health of the mother or fetus

Last I was told checking for a breeched baby is pretty important, making sure that no preeclampsia symptoms are arising in mother and therefore no effect on baby is important. Checking that baby is actually developing properly is pretty important (including CVS and Amnio for genetic problems), checking chorionic fluids for correct metabolites is pretty important, ultrasounds for checking heart development complications including the somewhat common 'hole in the heart'...the list goes on and on. I would think that all has to do with making sure mamma and baby are doing a-okay regardless how much the doctors office had to pay for the equipment.

...during my second pregnancy I ended up without a care provider because I refused a chorionic villi and amniocentesis which they were ordering based only on my age (36).

I don't know why they would refuse to give you care over opting out, that was your choice not to mention the possible risks involved with those invasive procedures. As for why they ordering the tests I can understand. Expectant mothers over the age of 30-35 have an increased risk of genetic and chromosomal disorders especially down's syndrome, Tay Sachs, and cystic fibrosis. I am not surprised a doctor would order them solely for the testing of those types of genetic disorders.

In labor laying you on your back, strapping on a monitor and leaving you lay there can cause complications, stalling labor and decreasing the effectiveness of labor and the mother's ability to handle the contractions without medication.

By monitor do you mean external tocometer? The one they strap around the mothers belly? Flat on the back may cause a difference in mothers blood pressure, but other than that I am not sure what it can actually do. They do prop women up if they are more comfortable though, why wouldn't they? I see a lot of this and that and the other thing when it comes to pregnancy, I am glad I do not have to through with it yet lol.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 03-18-2010 07:06 PM

Here we are in 2010, we can clone human beings, we can cure diseases, we can replace vital organs, we can replace organs with ANIMAL organs and so on and so on.......but we have not, thus far, been able to develop a method of birth control for men that provides the equivalent protection of birth control for women? That seems a bit far fetched. And this is not to say "they" aren't working on something...but look for how many years women have been using hormonal BC, ,since the 1960's!!!!

I have read that previous attempts to develop an effective and CONVENIENT male contraceptive have encountered problems over reliability and side-effects, such as mood swings and a lowered sex drive. Mood swings? Lowered sex drive? Sound familiar? My thoughts in reading that were "if mood swings and lowered sex drive were the only side effects, they should consider themselves lucky!!!!". But what happened? The male birth control was unsuccessful.

The newest thing (that I've read) is the possibility of an injection of TU (testosterone undecanoate) that will disrupt sperm production. Wow...that's genius....that after 50 years of women being solely responsible for the suffering of side effects of hormonal BC they finally decide "hey, maybe we can inject artificial hormones into men too!". *Sarcasm!!* Except scientists that have studied this injection say that men suffered none of the typical BC side effects, had no future problems with fertility, and actually had more reliable protection against pregnancy.

And let us not be naive, even doctors are aware that most major pharmaceutical companies aren't going to back male birth control. Why? Because they don't see the profits being what they'd need them to be to make such investments. Their question is, ....why make such an investment when there are already relatively safe cheap options for womens birth control? But how "safe" is anything that creates the kinds of side effects hormonal BC causes for MANY women?

And from personal experience, I know how helpless I felt when I found out my bf MIGHT have a fatal genetic disease he could pass to his children, and the responsibility to make sure that DOESN'T happen fell 99% on me, that 1% would've been if he had just said "lets not have sex", and we all know that wouldn't happen. So there I was, suffering monthly with symptoms that made me feel TERRIBLE, switching switching switching, being told by doctor "there's nothing else I can offer you...maybe bc just isn't right for you", ALL the while knowing that if I was going to maintain sexual activity with this man I truly had no other choice than to remain on BC. Until now, which is when I put my foot down and basically am saying to the world, "I would rather NOT have sex than to spend my days suffering.....".

**ItsASecret** · 03-18-2010 07:46 PM

Here we are in 2010, we can clone human beings, we can cure diseases, we can replace vital organs, we can replace organs with ANIMAL organs and so on and so on.......but we have not, thus far, been able to develop a method of birth control for men that provides the equivalent protection of birth control for women? That seems a bit far fetched. And this is not to say "they" aren't working on something...but look for how many years women have been using hormonal BC, ,since the 1960's!!!!

I was thinking the same thing recently, I mean I was just taught a few lectures by a fantastic pharmacologist who helped invent the first nano-medicine anti-fungal and it was approved for clinical trials before nano-tech was really getting going....nanomedicine for gosh sakes lol. And yet we cannot figure out how to inhibit a well established testosterone receptor?...it is perplexing but I think a part of it does have to do with "well even if we cannot perfect the male version at least women can have their birth control as an option". The money to be made is still astronomical, and pharma companies love money so there is no way they will abandon this idea.

And from personal experience, I know how helpless I felt when I found out my bf MIGHT have a fatal genetic disease he could pass to his children, and the responsibility to make sure that DOESN'T happen fell 99% on me, that 1% would've been if he had just said "lets not have sex", and we all know that wouldn't happen. So there I was, suffering monthly with symptoms that made me feel TERRIBLE, switching switching switching, being told by doctor "there's nothing else I can offer you...maybe bc just isn't right for you", ALL the while knowing that if I was going to maintain sexual activity with this man I truly had no other choice than to remain on BC. Until now, which is when I put my foot down and basically am saying to the world, "I would rather NOT have sex than to spend my days suffering.....".

This is why there is more than one type of birth control, and more than a few types of non-hormonal ones.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 03-19-2010 08:25 AM

Well I'll definitely be dabbling into the non hormonal side of things. Funny thing is, I've been going through this with the pill for almost 10 years and have really only been through 2 obgyns but neither of them have ever informed me on ANYTHING regarding non hormonal BC. I remember when I was younger telling my first ob, "I'm just afraid with all these bad side effects I'm having that this pill isn't working right...and it makes me wonder if it's not the right pill for me then is it really as effective as it should be?" and her response was "well, you're using condoms, RIGHT? So if you were using condoms then you wouldn't have to worry whether it is effective or not". Umm.....that's when I found a new doctor. This one has been great for the most part, very receptive to talking etc, but when it comes down to this, I feel like he hasn't offered me any other options (i.e. cervical cap).

So, I'm going to "inform" myself through research and try to make a decision that is safe, reliable, and healthy. And I'm going to twiddle my little fingers and wait for something that will hold guys a bit more responsible.

**WildChild** · 03-19-2010 08:30 AM

How about visiting Planned Parenthood? They are really experts in contraception. When I had an IUD, I had them put it in and was pleased with the experience.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 03-19-2010 10:17 AM

WC- that's definitely a thought. It's strange how I've been struggling with this for so long and I never even thought about a non hormonal option and then one day it just hit me that I don't have to put up with this anymore! I do not want anything implanted into my cervix, but I am very willing to try a cervical cap or something like that. Planned Parenthood is a great idea.

**TWills32** · 03-19-2010 11:29 AM

I don't take birth control anymore. I've tried many different kinds, but it was just wreaking havoc on my body. So, when we aren't trying to get pregnant, we use condoms. He already volunteered to get a vasectomy when we are done having kids. That seems to be the best option for us. I understand what you mean, though. My husband has also said he would take birth control for men if it were available.

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