can a guy really learn and change?

**N01** · 12-08-2008 03:19 PM

barring a significant emotional event, people dont change much after the age of 25 or so.

**someonereal_** · 12-09-2008 05:58 PM

I think Guys can be "trained" but changed? I have serious doubts and if so? Into what?

hahaha. i suppose trained would be an appropriate term.

i'm not sure though if i'm a good trainer.

crzyredhead21, i feel relieved that there is someone who believes so much in the ability of guys to change. i do love him very much, and you're right, i should work on my trust a little bit more. thank you for the advice.

people dont change much after the age of 25 or so.

which means i have three more years to train him! i'm glad the cut-off year wasn't 20 or something lower.

**WildChild** · 12-10-2008 07:24 AM

Get a hold of Mama Gena's books, she is all about how to train men and have them love it.

**Livelaughlove** · 12-10-2008 08:51 AM

I dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but "training a guy" is such horse **** and nothing but girl gossip. Just because you see it in romance novel's and soap opera's dont think it happens in real life!

All women want the ability of changing the bad boy into the loving husband. But once you do you get bored of your "Creation" and then move on to something alittle more adventurous. Why do you think women keep the loving husband but then cheat on them with the bad boy?

There are 2 reasons why women think this.

1. Psychological: It is a demonstration of your femininity and your power to be able to seduce a man to a point where he has no control over his emotions. Because women have no control over there emotions... thats

2. Evolutionary: It doesn't serve much benefit to you if your man is going around impregnating other women because that means he will have less time and resources for you and your children.

It's complete and utter fantasy and wishful thinking!

However, there are women out there that have successfully changed the bad boy into the nice guy but guess what those bad boy was never truly bad boys it was just a front. hense the reason why women say things like "I love you but im not in love with you" or "your not the man i fell in love with"

Why do you think you women test men? You test for congruence and authenticity you push and push until you get resistance even though it may upset you its also comforting.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE A PERSON THAT HAS A SOLID AND CORE UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEY ARE!

As far as training them... Stick with the romance novels! Or spend your money on foolish books like the one suggested above.

------------------------------------

You have 2 options op:

1. Accept the fact that his behavior drives you crazy, and makes you think about him more and more. Enjoy the passion, suspense, anger and all the other emotions that he is making you have

or

Option 2.

Dump him, find a boring guy that does nothing for you emotionally or physically, has no spine and does everything you ask of him, does the same boring things every day can never take authority, but "is there for you"

------------------------------------------

As far as men changing.

YES THEY CAN! I did.

They can change at any age. I have countless examples of proof of this.

Everyone can change, if they want to.

But it has to be for themselves and no one else.

Live laugh and love

**WildChild** · 12-10-2008 09:25 AM

Perhaps this is a matter of definition. In a sense every experience we have "trains" us. It's positive or negative reinforcement. If you hold the door for a woman and she smiles genuinely and says thank you, aren't you more likely to do it again? If she kicks you in the shin are you likely to have the same reaction?

Mama Gena talks about 'training' men but she is really talking about is women teaching themselves to interact with men in a different way. To quit making them wrong and find what is right about them and reinforce it. To learn to accept and embraces other's strong points can create a situation where they are more willing to work with you, to find common ground. She also encourages women to lighten up and have more fun with men.

Soo LLL dear, when I recommed this book, it's really about women learning some different attitudes and relationship skills. You need to calm down a bit, just because you've read some malecentric stuff about how to manipulate women (and that's what a lot of what you've described in the past sounds like) doesn't make you an expert any more than I am or anyone else on here. It's just different perspectives, what works for one, may not for another. Some of the things you've recommended would leave me cold, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be acceptable or even attractive to another type of woman.

I agree with you and have said repeatedly, you can't change someone. Only they can change themselves. You can't make them feel anthing that they don't allow. I do take exception to your sexist remarks and stereotyping, women certainly can and do control their emotions. And men do not have to be in charge or in control of anyone but themselves. Many couples enjoy very equitable relationships, where they recognize and play to each others strengths.

Men can change, women can change, if they choose to. Relationships and how society views them has changed and continues to change. We are fortunate to live in time that offer more options than our grandparents had and hopefully will offer even more for our grandchildren.

**Livelaughlove** · 12-10-2008 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by WildChild

Mama Gena talks about 'training' men but she is really talking about is women teaching themselves to interact with men in a different way. To quit making them wrong and find what is right about them and reinforce it. To learn to accept and embraces other's strong points can create a situation where they are more willing to work with you, to find common ground. She also encourages women to lighten up and have more fun with men.

My apology on calling the book foolish... It sounded familiar to a book called "The Rules" by Ellen Fein I remember squirming as i turned from page to page and hoped that no girl takes it seriously. I'm all about self improvement and i will look into this book to.

Originally Posted by WildChild

just because you've read some malecentric stuff about how to manipulate women (and that's what a lot of what you've described in the past sounds like)

Manipulation is a extremely bold word. Implying that im interacting with women and forcing them to do things against there will. Which couldn't be any further from the truth. Sorry you feel that way.

Originally Posted by WildChild

I do take exception to your sexist remarks and stereotyping, women certainly can and do control their emotions.

for some reason my explanation got cut out on the second part of that paragraph. So i can see how you took offense to it. What i was trying to say is you can't help but feel a certain why. Emotions are not a choice. There triggers of certain criteriors being met. You can't chose to be happy or even in love. A trigger has to activated, such as a memory or a thought.

Originally Posted by WildChild

And men do not have to be in charge or in control of anyone but themselves. Many couples enjoy very equitable relationships, where they recognize and play to each others strengths.

I have said countless times you can't control another person. Where you got the impression of men need to control women is beyond my understanding. Is not how I view any type of relationship!

As far as couples being equal. I couldn't agree with you more. It’s all about give and take. Your focus should always be on giving. Because when both people are giving, then both people are receiving.

Hope this clears things up.

Live laugh and love

**WildChild** · 12-10-2008 11:39 AM

Yes, think we're both clearer now. I know we've been on the same page before. This communication stuff can get complicated can't it? LOL
I'm not into women or men being dominate in a relationship, I don't even like the term opposite sex. I like, 'complimentary gender', because the best relationships in love, work or life are where each person's stengths, weaknesses and differences are recognized and worked with so a couple creates a stronger unit together than either apart. Sometimes one will come to the front and utilize their strengths, while the other is in a more supporting role and other times it reverses, depending on what is needed.

The 'weak' woman concept not only hurt women, it put a huge burden on men and put them in an unrealistic position. No wonder so many in past generations lashed out or became emotionally unavailable. We are still paying the price for that dumb idea, it will take a while for women and men to learn different ways of interacting and getting things done. We humans sure have a talent for complicating life.

**someonereal_** · 12-10-2008 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Livelaughlove

[B]
1. Accept the fact that his behavior drives you crazy, and makes you think about him more and more. Enjoy the passion, suspense, anger and all the other emotions that he is making you have

2. Dump him, find a boring guy that does nothing for you emotionally or physically, has no spine and does everything you ask of him, does the same boring things every day can never take authority, but "is there for you"

i suppose you're quite right, life would be more boring without these emotions. there are just episodes when the positive emotions come rarely and the negative ones dominate, and it gets tiring. but then again, love (the strongest emotion of all, in this case) is still there. so i suppose it should all work out.

Originally Posted by WildChild

Perhaps this is a matter of definition. In a sense every experience we have "trains" us. It's positive or negative reinforcement. If you hold the door for a woman and she smiles genuinely and says thank you, aren't you more likely to do it again? If she kicks you in the shin are you likely to have the same reaction?

Mama Gena talks about 'training' men but she is really talking about is women teaching themselves to interact with men in a different way. To quit making them wrong and find what is right about them and reinforce it.

i try to do that.

but i don't know if it's working. maybe i don't reinforce it enough..my boyfriend doesn't open up very much and he's not the type that would open doors for women lol so i have to wait for him to do something that is worth reinforcing (which is rare to begin with) and THEN reinforce it (which i might be doing wrong too).

and i have a suspicion that the effect on a guy of his girlfriend's reinforcements is less than than the effect of some other girl's reinforcements..if you know what i mean. if his girlfriend smiles at him, he sees her smile at him every time they're together..but another girl smiling at him? that's a different story. there's a slight sense of achievement there. I think it's the same even for any other kind of reinforcement, which could be one reason why i'm finding it difficult "training" him in that sense.

**WildChild** · 12-10-2008 06:01 PM

Men need opportunities to be appreciated and you have to find everyone you can. When the relationship is going south that can seem difficult. Door holding is easy, you just stand aside and wait for him to open it then as you are walking through give him a smile and say thank you. You have to give him the opportunity, if you just walk up and open it, he'd have to push you aside to do it for you.

Try reading some John Grey, (Men Are From Mars) he is really good at explaining how differently women and men communicate and techniques for working with each other's needs to bridge the differences.

Probably the best thing you can do is have fun and do your thing. We women tend to sidetrack our needs and lives for our men - how interesting is that? For you or him? Pursue your interests, get out with the girls, take a class, you'll be happier and more engaged in life and that will make you more attractive and interesting. Emotionally healthy people continue to learn and grow and develop, they may not change who they fundamentally are but they do change. They question is if the two of you continue to enrich each other's lives?

**Livelaughlove** · 12-10-2008 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by someonereal_

i suppose you're quite right, life would be more boring without these emotions. there are just episodes when the positive emotions come rarely and the negative ones dominate, and it gets tiring. but then again, love (the strongest emotion of all, in this case) is still there. so i suppose it should all work out.

Someonereal,

My earlier posts was geared more towards a frustration that women found it funny and entertained the idea of training there guy. I've come across this mentality more times then i would like to. Ive had my own personal experience with these types of women in the past to which i wont go to much into detail. Nothing good came of it. As a guy I felt obligated to make my opinion known. (See WhildChild even when I know how to control my emotions I still cant help it haha)

However what i failed to mention was that you should never tolerate a behavior that you feel is unacceptable. Meaning If you feel you deserve better then stand by your beliefs.

Be aware of payoffs that keep you "STUCK"in the relationship longer then you want to. Such as being together for a long time, the belief that your going to be alone forever if you leave him or even you feel comfortable when he is around.

There are certain traps that relationships fall into. One being expectation. Once an expectations has been placed and is NOT met it begins to take shape as a form of disappointment, lack of caring, or even abandonment. However if they ARE met then it doesn't have any effect at all, meaning the reason it was placed in the beginning has become so repetitive you become numb to it. Rather it serves as a security blanket eventually causing both people in the relationship to not feel anything for each other which was the purpose of the expectation in the first place.An example of this is a couple going out every saturday, or calling eathother the same time before they go to work/school.

Hope that didn't confuse you. haha

Wish you luck

Live laugh and love

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