Move back where his kids are or not - long post... sorry

**Librian** · 06-26-2010 05:29 AM

Hi everyone,

its my first post so please be gentle. Sorry, its an essay

I'm in a relationship thats around 18 months old. It started very quickly, he moved in with me within a month. Anyway, he has 2 young (now 6 and 4 years) children with his ex. When he moved in he didn't have regular access visits as his ex would keep using it as a way to control and manipulate him and try and damage our relationship. She would let him see them when she needed something, in other words when it was convenient. I'm telling you this so that you can see when our relationship was establishing itself we didn't have the kids around very much. Although the times we did have them were tough as his kids, in my opinion, are very poorly behaved, for example, throw 45 minute temper tantrums, ignore what you tell them, only do what they want, won't eat dinner, refuses to shower or have their hair washed or brush their teeth and still wet the bed everynight.

Jump a few months later and she startes the legal process of custody - it cut a long story short, I help him do his paperwork (I'm a lawyer) and he gets joint (50/50) custody. On the day he is literally beaming and all I'm hearing are the nails in the coffin being hammered in... But I hope that perhaps with a few boundries established things may improve.

Well things sort of improve with the older one (he is 5 at the time) we start getting him dry at night through rewards - so the bed wetting isn't a medical issue. They start letting me wash them and their hair (when they arrive their hair is in an appaling state so its obvious she isn't doing it) and they start brushing their teeth. The 5 year olds teeth are filled with cavities (he recently had 8 cavities filled). All was going OK with him until he told his mother that I slapped him and called him a - which NEVER happened... So I say that from now on I will not be alone with the kids period... I have to protect myself and even though he is making it up (which SO also agreed is the case) I believe the next accusation will be I touched his penis... so no! But things never improved with the youngest (3), she throws fits when she doesn't get her own way to close to an hour and at least 3 or more a day. I find her exhausting and to be brutal just awful to have around. Ofcourse she is Daddy's princess - which I think reinforces her poor behaviour.

So this goes on for about 8 months and I have to go back to where I came from, I was there for 12 months and made it clear I would be going back, which is about 4000km away. Six weeks after my leaving he is moving to be with me, I told him to make up his own mind but he thinks I'm gutless for never asking him to move with me... So we have been away 6 months now and I'm exploring job option back there as I liked the weather and lifestyle. And, because he misses them greatly. We don't talk about his kids as he thinks I hate them, which I don't I just can't stand their behaviour. I find his kids too clingy - they used to try and sleep in bed with us but that stopped when I got out as I can't sleep with kids in the bed plus they still wet the bed and I don't want my mattress ruined! If we're sitting together they squish in between us so that he and I aren't next to each other. The week they were with us was the week it was them and I and the week without them was our week. The thing is he wasn't even what I would class as a great dad - he shouts, swears at and get really cranky with them. So I see that its not just my buttons they push, but I acknowledge this type of parenting actually makes it worse and I would expect better from him as these are not his first kids (he has 6 all together by 4 different women and I don't think he raised any past the age of around 6).

Now before you all start in - I do have 1 child that is now 20 which I fully raised with his biological father. And I never wanted to have anymore and have made it abundantly clear that I will not have any more.

So my question is IF I go back how do I try and improve things because he will be looking to have regular contact again. I suggested not living together and he isn't happy with that option at all, I asked him to suggest something but he won't - is it horrible to try and determine how things will be before I move. OR should I stay where I am and see what he does...

**sourpuss** · 06-26-2010 07:43 AM

Live where you want to live and be happy. If he can't compromise to help your relationship, then it's not worth it. Why would he want to live with you when he thinks you hate his kids? That doesn't even make sense. Do you pay the majority of the bills or something?
It sounds like a situation that you really aren't happy with and nothing is changing so I wouldn't go back.
Their mother doesn't take proper care of them, dad is always coming and going and now you're there. No wonder they are clingy, they are scared to death to lose him, that's understandable.
If you really want to be with him then I would take it slow, really slow. Do not move back in together. Take time for yourself when he has his kids and slowly break them in to spending time with you. Maybe a breakfast date with them every couple of weeks. But don't throw yourself and his kids back into that situation that none of you are happy in.

**Olympia** · 06-26-2010 10:22 AM

Librian,
His kids world has suddenly gone cross eyed. Time is needed for them to accept more change in their lives. They have to adjust to dad not being with them or their mother any more. They have questions, and may find answers that they do not understand which create more questions right now.
It is not an easy transition for anyone; you, him, the ex, kids...

But, as Sourpuss stated.

If you really want to be with him then I would take it slow, really slow. Do not move back in together. Take time for yourself when he has his kids and slowly break them in to spending time with you. Maybe a breakfast date with them every couple of weeks. But don't throw yourself and his kids back into that situation that none of you are happy in.

**Hopeless Dork** · 06-26-2010 11:38 AM

The bedwetting by the older one, the tantrums by the younger one and the clingyness shared by the both of them are classic symptoms of children living in emotional chaos. You look at them and see their behaviors... but their behaviors are a reflection of the situation they've been put into. They are pawns for their mother to get attention from their father... they were splitting time in 2 homes equally... thats not stable at all. One week living somewhere as home, one week the other... try that on for a month and see how secure you feel about life. Try that on at 5... and it will feel desperately confusing.

Kids need stability and roots, they need bounderies and love and they need to know what to expect in order to thrive. It sounds like they just didn't know what was going to happen from one week to the next and that is a recipe for clingyness and behavioral problems.

I, like sourpuss, don't understand why he would want to be with you if he thinks you HATE his children. Even though you don't hate his children... what does it say about him... that he could imagine his partner hating his children and choose to be with her anyway and simply pretend they don't exsist?

He left shared custody to be with you, abandoned them basically... but its not new to him you say. 4 different babies mothers have been abandoned by him and thus the kids all before reaching 6 years old. I also have to ask the question as the above... are you supporting him? Do you pay his bills? I can't imagine any reason but financial dependence that someone would sacrafice their kids to be with someone. I wouldn't ever think that it would be due to 'love' as someone that can abandon their flesh and blood, to me... doesn't have the capacity to 'love' in that way.

I don't blame you for not wanting to raise children again... so my suggestion would be to date men that don't have them. I would have a whole lot of trouble respecting a man that could walk out on his kids just to be close to me. It would be quite the bittersweet ego boost I'd imagine... but that partnered with the fact he's done it 4 other times would lead me to jump to the realistic conclusion that he has no loyality, no sense of responsibility and can't see past what he wants in that moment.

You mention how happy he was when he got custody of his kids even partially... so maybe there is something there in him that wants to be the man he should be, I"m not sure.

But either way, I don't think you guys are well-suited together if you have no interest in being around his children... he's got too many of them to ignore the fact that they will be around in some capacity. As for their behaviors... with some stability in their life they will improve. But if they were perfect little angels.. would you feel any better about raising them?

**WildChild** · 06-26-2010 12:57 PM

Have to agree with the other posters. I feel very sorry for the children, he sounds like a loser. His track record with women and children paints a pretty dismal picture. What positives are there in this for you?

**jns** · 06-26-2010 01:18 PM

I know love is blind, but I also don't think this is the relationship you are looking for.

**Librian** · 06-26-2010 06:31 PM

I have been clear from the outset that I'm not maternal and if he wants someone to mother them or love them thats not me. But he tends to ignore what he doesn't like.

Yes Sourpuss - I pay the majority of the bills. When he moved in with me it was my rental place, now its my house that I own (with the bank). For a while he had no car either... he moved out from where he was living with his ex so I can understand that he didn't have many possessions as he took none. And I do earn almost triple his income.

Hopeless Dork - I agree with tthat kids need bounderies to feel safe, secure and loved. Yet they have none... when I tried to implement some, you can imagine the choas, he did go along with them but it made me feel like the bad guy. The youngest now has severe ezcema and is stuttering I told him she is under extreme stress and he agrees. To me it shows that half half care isn't the way to go, especially with these kids, and that they have no structure so they feel and act out of control. When I raise any of this he raises how my 20 year old, who lives with us, is a big baby, doesn't pull his own weight around the house yada yada... I find it funny he tries to draw parallels with this but I don't argue back about it as he is simply wrong. My son at similar ages was a sheer joy to have around and I loved spending time with him and still do.
And yes its not an ego boost at all when it gets thrown back at you that he left his kids to be with me... Which I disagree with because in my opinion I did the right thing and not ask him to come down which meant leave them HE CHOSE to do that himself.
He was genuinely happy when he got shated custody but he never thought beyond the fight for it of the practical things and he certaintly never asked if it was something I couold live with. For the record I was in a one bedroom unit so the kids had to sleep on the floor on a spare matress - hardly ideal to foster a safe and secure environment when you're packing up you bed every night.

I believe that its a combination of a variety of factors that made the situation worse a) kids already had behaviour issues, b) living situation was unsuitable, c) he has no idea of how to parent them and d) I don't want to engage with the kids when they are being awful - which is most of the time. As far as I recall every single trip was ruined... It would be a really nice day out with and then something would happen and the little one would have a screaming fit, kick the car seats (my car) and generally raise . So then I'd be furious that I went in the first place and with myself for believing that it was going really good.

He is good with getting them ready for school and child care every morning and tending to all their daily needs like washing, making sure they are neat and clean before going to school and childcare. They have been in childcare since pretty much being born for what I can gather. Mum would drop them off and then go back home... He does call them twice a day and when I ask about whats so different with these kids he says he feels connected with them and its something he's grown into. Given his first was born when he was 19! I had mine son at 20 and never even got him so much as babysat so I put it down to the difference between the sexes.

He is an otherwise really great partner in that he his attentive and very loving, great around the house and generally lovely to spend time with. We mhave similar interests so its even nice spending the day at home together. I miss him when we are apart - thats how comfortable it is. For me it been nice living so far away (except the weather). When everything is going well its blissful when we argue its the absolute worst of the worst. But he can be really nasty when we argue and them so am I back. Its during these times when I think... yeah and IF you go I won't chase you or care... but while I know do care and will be quite upset. But its not like I'm going to die or anything. He is very passionate and he does tend to live more in the moment than I do.

But I can't help but think that its me who makes all the sacrafices to raise a family that isn't mine... And yes, it would be different if they were perfect little angels as then I simply wouldn't dread their visits... The older one is much better behaved and I like him much more than the little one who I don't like at all.

**Librian** · 06-26-2010 07:22 PM

Wildchild - he's not a loser - tackle the issue not the insult the person. His ex is a complete psycho and its a shame he has kids with her as now he is stuck with having her in his life for a long long time. I think mostly he is a man who doesn't like to be alone... but thats not all that uncommon.

Professionally I've seen women use kids to manipulate a guy to staying around longer than he otherwise would and I think this is the case with his ex.

**Hopeless Dork** · 06-27-2010 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Librian

But I can't help but think that its me who makes all the sacrafices to raise a family that isn't mine... And yes, it would be different if they were perfect little angels as then I simply wouldn't dread their visits... The older one is much better behaved and I like him much more than the little one who I don't like at all.

I just... yeah. I agree with you that you are not suited to have these children in your life. You "don't like" the little one, at all. So his assuming you hate his kids.... really wan't THAT much of a leap? No, you aren't forcing his hand to leave his children or to choose you over them... he can make up his own mind and the picture you paint of him shows a man that is not very responsible , found a gal to pay the bills for him and will sacrafice being in his childrens lives, even so far as to not even bring them up in conversation... in order to continue to be supported. He's not a loser... but I think if you read this and were not in the relationship... you'd be hard pressed to see a real winner there.

What would be your ideal out of this situation? Best case scenerio in your mind would be? Him never seeing his kids again and pretending they don't exsist? I just don't see what you could possibly be hoping for out of this situation unless you changed your heart on how you want to accept his children...

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 06-27-2010 03:40 AM

He has 6 children, to 4, women, and you became the Knight in shining armour, helped him yet, you've bought a child up and the way in which he treats them, is not to your morals, standards, but yet you are trying to find the way...

So firstly, don't you have to ask yourself, why you want to do this? Sounds to me that you are wanting to "help" this person but don't agree with so much in which he brings children up, let alone, no responsibility, let alone, fathers children like it's not an issue.

You've even admitted your not maternal and you pay the majority of the bills.

Wildchild - he's not a loser - tackle the issue not the insult the person. His ex is a complete psycho and its a shame he has kids with her as now he is stuck with having her in his life for a long long time. I think mostly he is a man who doesn't like to be alone... but thats not all that uncommon.

Professionally I've seen women use kids to manipulate a guy to staying around longer than he otherwise would and I think this is the case with his ex.

Comments like that, will get you banned.. She's expressing her thoughts, opinion.. Your disagreeing... do it politely.

So he doesn't want to be alone... Seems you don't either and your using your profession to justify.

It's obvious your struggling with the whole situation.. You like the person.. The likes, personality and you want to help him...

But, your not wanting to and rightly so, put up with kids sleeping between you, wetting the bed, yet it appears that they need someone.

So you need to deside your love for this man... And compromise... or see this relationship as not what you can cope with it's all too much for you...

CW