Sleeping habits

**Sprite** · 01-09-2010 05:04 AM

Lately, I cannot fall asleep until it hits 2am or so. I'm not really sure why, and I know it has nothing to do with what time I wake up. I have tried waking up really early so that I can get tired earlier, but it hasn't worked. No matter how long I lay in bed for, trying to sleep...nothing helps.

I get to the point where I'm really physically tired, but my brain just won't switch off.

Does anyone have a similar problem?

**x.st.angel.x** · 01-09-2010 05:11 AM

You may have insomnia...have you always been like this or just lately

**Sprite** · 01-09-2010 05:14 AM

I have always had a sort of 'body clock', but it's just lately that it's been this late.

**x.st.angel.x** · 01-09-2010 05:16 AM

Could be what i call 'holiday syndrome' Where you get so used to relaxing and not doing too much that your body is physically not tired, then when you get back into work your body now gets tired but your brain is used to being awake. How are you during school? Whats your sleeping patterns like then?

**Sprite** · 01-09-2010 05:21 AM

Can't get to sleep then either. I wake up at 7am, and I try set myself to be in bed by 9:30pm, but I'm still awake by 11:30/midnight. I didn't really think anything of it, until now, I feel like going to bed, but I won't actually fall asleep until 2am.

**kira** · 01-09-2010 04:14 PM

You may be going to bed tired but your brain is not getting the signal for sleep. The most common cause for that has to do with sunlight. I don't know what light levels are like at that time of year there but here it's a common occurance toward the northern half of the US. Some people also just have a delayed reaction to sunlight so they don't want to fall asleep or wake up until several hours later than most people. Daylight controls your sleep cycle. To make it very simple during the day the light hitting the eye causes serotonin to be produced. This is also the main neurotransmitter used to treat anxiety and depression disorders. When it gets dark the serotonin is turned in to melatonin and you get sleepy. If neither one is produced sufficiently you get very tired from lack of sleep but you never get the physical signal to fall asleep. It becomes a worsening cycle then because for some reason the less sleep you get the less serotonin your body produces. The signals for your sleep cycle get weaker and weaker. You can also end up with depression and anxiety disorders.

Before you try a doctor and prescription medication there are several things you can do that will help all insomnia causes and improve your health overall. First go look up sleep hygiene. There should be a list of do's and don'ts for getting better sleep irregardless of what the problem is. Not all of them actually apply to everyone but try following them for awhile. For example watching tv in the bedroom is the best thing for helping me sleep but professionals suggest not even having a tv in the bedroom. 2nd try to get more sunlight during the day especially in the mornings and try to get limited light exposure (including indoor lights and computers) a few hours before bedtime. It will help your brain process when to sleep. If you can't do that such as a school or office that has limited sunlight exposure you can buy lights that simulate the sun. Some are expensive for those that really suffer these problems and don't have much time so they pack all their daily light plus some into about 15mins of sitting in front of a lamp. Even a much cheaper strong full spectrum lamp and light bulb (~$50 here) will help if you can use it for a couple hours a day. Make sure you use a different lamp later in the evening. This is probably the next strongest treatment to medication for all insomnia issues.

I believe melatonin is available otc in australia. It wasn't about 10 years ago but pretty much every country allows it now. If you aren't exposed to much sunlight or aren't producing enough for some reason this can work well with less risk of side effects than most herbal supplements and teas. If sunlight and melatonin production are not a problem though it won't do a thing. It's helped me in the past but these days I can take it like candy and I don't know I've taken anything. Doctors can prescribe a medication that makes you more sensitive to what melatonin is available but it's used more for the elderly in this country. Personally I find it's as useful as taking straight melatonin which doesn't require a prescription and has fewer side effect risks.

If none of that helps you need to see a doctor. They may run tests or you might need a sleep study where they will first check if you have an extreme reaction to light (such as seizures) and then record your brain waves, respiration, and how much you move as you fall asleep to try to find the cause. There are quite a few prescription medications to treat sleep these days along with sleep therapists or you might end up seeing a regular psychiatrist if certain thoughts are keeping you from sleeping. Overall though prescription sleep aids = bad and anxiety or depression medication if those are causing sleeping trouble are even worse. If you can fix the problem with controlling light levels and sleep hygiene you will be far better off. Sunlight can even solve low energy and depression so you might as well try sitting in the sun first before you start letting doctors mess with brain chemistry. They really aren't very good at it yet.

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 01-09-2010 04:51 PM

Kira
There should be a list of do's and don'ts for getting better sleep irregardless of what the problem is.

III. 15 Tips to Overcome Insomnia

RETINAL STIMULATION - make it a point to go outside and stimulate your retinas (eyes) for about 15 minutes a day with sunlight. This "full on" light exposure can help restore your body's natural sleep/night cycle, also known as the "circadian rhythm." Looking straight into the sun is never a good idea, but being in an area where you receive the full brightness of the sun around you is what's recommended.
NO NAPS – Avoid naps during the day. If you sleep during the day, your body may not be as tired as necessary to get to sleep at night.
COOL ROOM - Keep the temperature in your room cool and comfortable.
WAKING ACTIVITIES – Don’t participate in waking activities while in bed, like watching TV, eating, talking on the telephone, texting your friends, or using your laptop. Remember, bed has traditionally been for sleep. Train yourself to limit your bed-related activities, and your body will begin to associate your bed with sleepiness. Reading in bed is different. Reading can help you focus your mind, especially if what you read is boring. Save the murder mysteries for daytime and pick up a boring book for sleep. Reading in bed is an age-old trick for quickly getting to sleep.
GO TO BED AT REGULAR TIME – There's no easy answer to the problem of being too tired during day-time and not tired enough at bed-time. Nonetheless, most experts agree that it is most helpful for you to go to bed at a regular, planned time. If you need to sleep more, it's better for you to go to bed at your regular time and get up earlier. With time, your body should re-adjust and give you the hours you need. Be careful about driving or operating machinery when not fully rested, though. If you feel tired to the point of losing visual focus, you should definitely not be operating heavy machinery - no matter what. When not sleeping well for a period of time, ask someone else to drive you to work, if you can.
DON’T EXERCISE (<3 HOURS) – Don’t exercise within three hours of trying to fall asleep – this raises the heartrate. Slow stretching on the other hand might be just what the doctor ordered to get your body slowed down and feeling good.
DON’T EAT STIMULATING FOODS (<3 HOURS) – Don’t eat stimulating foods within three hours of trying to fall asleep – lying horizontally interrupts digestion and may cause heartburn. Also, eating high fat and carbohydrate foods might help make you groggy and help you fall asleep, but calorie-conscious people may need to weigh the benefits of such an approach to insomnia.
AVOID STIMULANTS (<2-3 hours) – Avoid all stimulants such as caffeinated and nicotine in cigarettes. Caffeinated products include coffee, tea, sodas, and especially colas. Even some aspirin or other headache remedies often contain caffeine! "Energy drinks", Mountain Dew and a wide variety of other "energy bars" or supplements often contain a high amount of stimulating products. Check your vitamin and other supplements to make sure none of them are stimulating as well. (Look them up on an Internet search engine if you are unsure.) Check labels to see if products like aspirin are in any other product you take before bed. It is a surprise to many people to learn that even cigarettes can be stimulating when you are tired. Stay away from all these substances if you want a good night's sleep.
AVOID LIQUIDS. (<2 HOURS) - many people are just simply drinking too many fluids before sleep. Parents with bedwetting children learn to curtail all liquids about 2 hours before sleep, thereby allowing the child's body to void excess liquids about 30-60 minutes before actual bed-time. Well, adults have the same pattern of voiding as children. If liquids are taken before sleep, those liquids create an urgency to urinate that can awaken the adult. While that adult usually has enough bladder control to get to the bathroom, they often do not have the ability to get back to sleep. Stop drinking before sleep, and see if you stop waking up to urinate.
WIND DOWN (<90 MINS) - 90 minutes before you go to bed, wind own your day and don’t participate in anxiety-inducing activities like checking your mail, email or even watching the evening news.
WRITE DOWN CONCERNS (<30 MINS) - Spend a few minutes before bed at night writing down your concerns and stresses, then hopes or things you’re thankful for, so that you can give your mind a rest while you are sleeping.
CALMING MUSIC/SELF-HYPNOSIS - Listen to calming music, white noise, self-hypnosis or a "brain recalibration" tape for sleep. Such tapes are scientifically designed to help you "reset" your brain and calm down. When developed by researchers rather than marketers, they are remarkably effective. Just be sure to buy your brain recalibration audios from reputable sleep companies, and not slick marketing companies.
GET UP IF YOU CAN"T SLEEP – If you can’t fall asleep after 15-20 minutes get out of bed.
AVOID BRIGHT LIGHTS – if you wake up in the middle of the night and can’t get back to sleep within 30 minutes, get up but avoid as much light as possible. Light will only stimulate your brain’s day/night balance (circadian cycle). Avoid computer-based hypnosis programs just prior to going to bed for the same reason. The light emitted from a computer screen is intense. Any strong light is more likely to stimulate and wake your nervous system.
REDIRECT NIGHTMARES/BAD THOUGHTS – If you have a nightmare or stress-inducing thoughts, focus on a different ending. Write down your nightmare, or tell someone else about it to stop the continual thoughts

I suspect also that you take your computer to bed with you? Feeling that because you can't sleep, you'll stay on WH?

Not that we don't want you here

No way, at all, but if your doing that your not relaxing your mind either, to allow it to "want" to sleep

Other things to consider, as Kira has made a fantastic post, is Estrogen, hormonal, so your periods and how they are affecting you, or too much excersise daily can also be the cause...

If you go to bed at 2am daily do you sleep straight through? And what time do you wake up?

It takes some time to get yourself back into old routine, don't except it to happen over night but see if the list helps you recognise anything as well.

CW

**sallyskellington** · 01-09-2010 05:35 PM

I rough 3 hours a night 4 on a good night. I can fall asleep but not stay asleep. And I've abused the heck outta sleep aids my whole life so they don't work.So right now my doc put me on elivil(sp?) to help with my sleep habits and headaches.
My advice to you.... don't drink ANY caffine past 2pm and watch foods that are high in sugar this may help your problem. If not there is always booze.

**Explorer44** · 01-09-2010 06:22 PM

Nix,
I am a night owl...no question about it. I have always been one. It does wreak havoc with my mornings, of course, lol.

I tend to throw my body into a tailspin when my daughter is away on visitation, or on holiday because those are times when I can generally stay up later without the pressure of that early morning bus stop time!

Rarely do I get to bed before midnight, and if I try, generally I can't sleep. This morning however I slept until 2pm~I never do that, so I must have been exhausted.

I think it's really important to avoid caffeine for a few hours before bed. I'm no good example of that, but I am trying to get better.

My daughter is a night owl as well, so I really have to maintain a routine with her...warm bath, warm hair blow dry, nice warm pj's from the dryer, and she seems to subside.

Good luck, I know it's hard to make adjustments like this

**kira** · 01-10-2010 12:27 AM

Elavil, amitriptyline. An antidepressant that was commonly used as a sleep aid before newer medications. Somewhat effective depending on the person. I had an older psychiatrist that relied on that stuff and didn't know things like ambien existed. Personally I find antidepressants to be nasty stuff for sleep. They interfere with deeper sleep so you need more sleep and everyone I know put on antidepressants thought they were doing better while their quality of work went down. Plus they interact with everything. Did you go through the benzos or would your doctor not prescribe them? Benzos do nearly the same thing as the newer sleep aids (ambien feels like a benzo) and last longer but their potential for abuse means many doctors won't give them to you. Particularly for sleep.

Alcohol will wear off in about 2-4hours and if you have any trouble sleeping through the night you'll wake up. It actually puts you to sleep for much the same reason as the medications produced specifically for sleep and the benzos. They all impact gaba. Alcohol does other things as well though and some of those may make your sleep worse if you try to drink larger amounts of it. It will also increase any snoring or breathing difficulties you have during the night. You could kill yourself if you have sleep apnea and try to use it as a sleep aid.