Spine consultants say it is normal?

**Gamma** · 04-23-2010 01:27 PM

Hi all

I have got grade 3 degeneration of my spine, including schmorls nodes and an annular bulge. All in my lower spine. In my neck I have got stenosis and reversal into kyphosis along with more degeneration. Similar also for my thoracic spine.

I am only in my early twenties, though started with all this pain (from back and going down left leg, than progressed to both, sciatica) and problems since I was 17. It seems odd it may have started after a viral illness as I had vomiting and also was so 'out of it' hallucinating, my mom decided to keep a real eye on me.

I saw a few spine surgeons at the same hospital but they just said the degeneration shown on MRI was 'normal' and that my spine was 'pristine'! I do not believe it as the radiologists who read the MRIs reported that it was unusal for a girl of my age.

The radiologists also noted that I may have an abnormal collagen variant. I do have some symptoms of extra bendiness such as being able to bend my thumb to touch my hand.

I have also found out from personal research that problems with collagen i.e lax ligaments can cause degeneration in joints, including spinal discs and areas as they are moving around excessively and are unstable.

Who is best to see to find out more about my problem as spine surgeons do not seem to have any understanding of my spine or about collagen problems?

Also, would it be possible that the virus I had caused this early onset degeneration i.e auto-immune disease?

I do wonder if it is at all possible to see one of the radiologists who read my MRI and noted these changes and see if they have some sort of advice or maybe if I'm lucky, a test and solution following.

P.S: I now have a bladder problem too. Incontinence at the most severe level. Cannot hold anything in as it all comes right out and soaks me really bad. The spine surgeons refused to see me when my other consultant asked them to due to my new symptoms and they have just discharged me, saying there is nothing wrong with me (again!). Sick of hearing that word.

I have been told by many people and also nurses that my spine is definitely a possible cause for my bladder problems. I also agree with them as the spine surgeons left me with no treatment except physio which made me worse so I stopped going.

I am only young, yet they expect me to get on with it and suffer it for the rest of my life and I refuse to listen to them as I have seen many young people have great success in treating their symptoms, though I have seen the opposite too.

Also, what is an annular bulge? It does not sound good...

Kind regards

Gamma

**Beautiful Disaster** · 04-24-2010 02:59 AM

An annular buldge is a similar concept as squashing a marshmallow. There are thick disks in between each vertebra that act as shock absorbers. Usually in people who are aging, the disks begin to wear out and flatten (which causes them to buldge out).

It definitely sounds like you are facing a bit of a mystery. Unfortunately it's not always easy to get someone to listen to you,but hang in there, because you're right.....you're awfully young to be experiencing things like this and perhaps theres an underlying cause that no one has yet identified.

The incontinence....that's another thing that often happens with age. But at your age, not common.

Are you overweight? Have you had children?

It sounds like these doctors are telling you a bunch of big words that you truly don't understand.... do you ask alot of questions?

**Gamma** · 04-24-2010 05:06 PM

Hi, Beautiful Disaster

Thanks for your reply.

Sounds like there is a possibility of it eventually herniating and going into the nerves.

They have no idea as to what could be causing the degeneration, though the consultant radiologists who read my MRIs and did the report, seem to know much more than the spinal surgeons and GPs. I do wonder if it is possible here in the UK to see consultant radiologists rather than spine surgeon?

The incontinence I have been told by my urogynaecologist is a result of the spinal degeneration which has been left untreated for 4 years. He said that the nerves to my bladder are so small they would not show up on MRI whether they were damaged or not. He said it only takes a small change in the spine for this to happen.

Yet the spine surgeons and GPs do not want to accept this but I tend to believe and agree with my urogynaecologist as this would certainly make sense as it seems a bit of a clue as to the fact I got my bladder problem occur since having this spinal degeneration left for years. The bladder problem actually occurred after I was made to do physiotherapy for my back which also seems to be a clue. Could my spinal degeneration have got worse after physiotherapy and now affected my bladder? They did not make much of a diagnosis or anything before making me do physiotherapy which I did not agree with anyway as it makes my pain much worse anyway. They ignored the degeneration and still made me do it. They said I had mechanical back pain!

My body tells me not to do things if it hurts so I listen to my body. If physio hurt which it did, I did not carry on doing it as it means my spine is not up for it and can end up doing more harm than good in some cases, such as mine.

I have not had children and am of an athletic, slim build.

I did ask questions but they could not answer them and just said they could not see anything wrong with my back and to live with it and take painkillers for the rest of my life. I refused to take daily painkillers as for one it is just covering up the problem and two it is not good for my overall long-term health as they can do severe damage to internal organs and could cause other complications which I do not want. I have also got a sensitive stomach and taking anti-inflammatories is not something I would wish to do due to this.

I believe it is the grade 3 degeneration in my spine that is causing my incontinence and do not understand how they could ignore it, particularly in such a young age...

Sorry to go on, just wanted to give out as much information as I could.

Kind regards

Gamma