Stay Or Go?

#1 01-22-2007, 01:19 PM

Let me begin with assumptions;

Firstly, that the first time the public heard Bill
was unfaithful to Hillary was not the first time
Bill was unfaithful to Hillary.

Secondly, that the first time the public heard
Bill was unfaithful to Hillary was not the first
time Hillary knew Bill was unfaithful.

Thirdly, that the first time B was unfaithful
to H, was before he became Governor.

The third is not crucial to this discussion, it
merely leaves open an extra door.

The fact is that Bill was unfaithful and Hillary
did not leave him.

This is the discussion I wish to open;

1) Leave him or Not?
2) Stay why?

#2 01-22-2007, 01:20 PM

You know your man is unfaithful.
Do you go or do you stay?

Using the paradigm of Bill and Hillary Clinton
the base might be;

Would Hillary be in the position she is today
if she had divorced him?

#3 01-22-2007, 01:26 PM

Today, Hillary Clinton is running for President.
Would she be in this position today, if she
had divorced Bill Clinton?

Let us go back...
to the first time she caught him.

I make an assumption it was before he
became Govenor.

I make the assumption that the usual
crying, promising, begging, promises
took place.

I make the assumption that H went
through the usual devastation, hysteria
pain, the first time.

I make the assumption that he told her
whatever it was to keep her.

I make the assumption that there was
a thought in her mind that staying with
him would be better.

Maybe this thought came out of love.
Maybe it came, as mercenary, in the belief
he would go far, or in vested self interest
that right now was not the time to end
the marriage, or simply because she couldn't
take the emotional trauma of a divorce at
that moment.

Whatever it was, Hillary stayed.

Was it the right decision?

Hillary as political being would have to admit
yes. But Hillary as woman?

#4 01-22-2007, 01:33 PM

Because H remained married to B, she moved
into the Govenor's mansion, then into the White
House.

Because H remained married to B she was First
Lady, and then, Senator from New York.

If she had divorced B as he entered the Govenor's
Mansion, or shortly after, had she divorced him
over the Monica affair, would she be a Senator
from New York who is running for President?

The answer is probably No.

Had she divorced him in Arkansas, there would have
been another woman in the Govenor's Mansion and
in the White House.

Clearly, being B's wife opened the door to her, and
kept it open, so that today, H can run for President.

In a strictly mercenary manner, not divorcing her
husband was the correct choice.

She lost nothing by staying, for her manner of
confronting the adultery did not detract from
her but added.

There was no harpy screeching, there was no
dramatics, she dealt with it business like, and
quietly.

Perhaps the imperatives of politics made it so,
but then, we have witnessed the melt down
of Prince Charles marriage to Diane, which was
surely not done with restraint or decorum.

H has done/said nothing about the affair which
would in anyway effect her reputation, or that
of B.

But what of the woman behind the name?
What of other women married to unfaithful men?

inshock · #5 01-22-2007, 02:03 PM

These are great questions.

Shortly after the H & B scandal broke I spent 3 months in Europe. The nearly unanimous reaction to the predicament AND the American reaction was laughter. Every European I discussed the matter with thought it was trivial and blown out of proportion by Americans. This intrigued me and begs the question: why is the European view of sexuality so different?

I didn’t agree with any of the individuals I discussed the H & B scandal with. But it expanded my perspective.

What is sexuality? Have we really diverged from our biological roles in the last millennia? I think our inherent gender roles play a huge part. Men of power, influence, and popularity have risen to that stature by being the largest cave man with the biggest club. Our evolution has offered a niche for brainy aches as well (Bill Gates) but their role is different. They advance the tools men like Bill Clinton wield.

I’m sure Hillary entered that relationship with ideals, the knight is shining armor sort. But as their relationship evolved she was faced with tough decisions. Do we doubt Bill’s love for Hillary because of his actions? I don’t. I don’t think she does either or she surely would have left. No doubt the situation has brought her shame and embarrassment BUT it has also given her, as you point out, great power.

In any situation we weight the totality of the circumstances to decide our course of action. We are inherently selfish. Hillary made her decision by weighing everything important to her and her long term goals in life. If she didn’t believe Bill was on his way to the top would she have stayed? Women want the man with the biggest club.

#6 01-22-2007, 03:33 PM

In Jamaica we refer to oral sex as 'rifle cleaning' or 'wash off'.
It is not considered sex qua sex.

Many men do not ask or expect their wives to perform it.
The remarks of Robert de Niro in 'Analyse This' :

"...do that with the same mouth she uses to kiss my children?"
is held by many many people.

If a man goes out to have his 'rifle cleaned' or to get a
'wash off', it is taken in the same way as if he went to
a female barber.

So the view of "Oral Sex is Sex" is not held universally.

#7 01-22-2007, 03:40 PM

In some relationships the venture into infidelity
can not be borne by one party. There is no way
to wrap the mind around the betrayal.

In others, the offended party forgives the adultery.

In a few cases, the marriage continues, just as good
as or better than it was before.

In many cases, the forgiven takes this as a carte blanche,
the mistake is not being unfaithful, it is being caught.

Firstly; saying...."How could you do this to me?"
suggests that you existed in his mind when he opened
his zipper.

Secondly; thinking...."What did I do wrong?"
is taking 'guilt' or 'responsibility' for an action
as related to you as the Kendal Crash, (if you
don't know what that is, the analogy works even
better).

Forgiving the adultery makes you available for
more adultery.

Bill was not in love with Monica. She was an available
pair of lips. If she wasn't available, then it would be
someone else. But to think that Monica qua Monica
had any importance whatsoever is to miss the true
nature of this kind of serial adultery.

And asking...

"Why does H put up with it?" or
"How can she stay married to B?"

Misses the point.
The point being; the management of adultery.

inshock · #8 01-22-2007, 05:54 PM

I think the only way to manage adultry by a partner is to truly believe it won't happen again. This requires an expression of unfettered regret and sorrow by the adulterer. For the woman under the politician to survive Hillary must believe he husband has changed and learned his lesson. No doubt she believed this after Bill endured the scandal and embarrassment the fallout from his actions brought. Gore lost the subsequent election and Clinton's legacy is now tainted because of his actions. Not to mention Hillary has secured the compassion and sympathy of the nation which when combined with the dignity and inner strength she showed during and after the scandal broke has enhanced her public image and popularity.

I think coping with adultery requires an honest belief that the situation will not repeat itself AND a way to mitigate the damage so that something positive is yielded from the experience.