Letting 'white lies' ruin our relationship?

**Syl** · 07-21-2010 01:49 PM

I've only posted here once before, about my fiance and his female friends, especially an ex-girlfriend (the previous post was about the same thing, sort of - he texted her late at night).

I am positive he is not having an affair (she lives out of state), and I also know he doesn't talk to her that often.

But we've had numerous discussions about this, and I thought we had it all sorted out - we set boundaries, and those boundaries were: He would tell me if he ever talked with the ex (or any females), whether it was by phone, email, text, whatever. He would not talk to her (or any females) after we had said goodnight (we live in different towns, for now). The bottom line, which I thought he understood, is if he wants me to believe they are all just friends, then he needed to treat them as such; he tells me when he talks with his guy friends, but he keeps his female friends' contact secret. He said he understood it wasn't jealousy so much as me wanting respect from him, and the fact that once we are married, female friends need to realize that things are changing.

Of course, I've found that he still isn't telling me: We got in a fairly deep/prolonged discussion just last week after he had me go into his email to find a thread between us and several other people (yup, including her) about a vacation planned together. He wanted me to find the flight info, but as I was weeding through all the messages that had been posted back and forth, I found one that he sent only to her - no one else in the group received it, and it was about how much he was looking forward to seeing 'everyone' and renewing 'sweet friendships.' Well, I told him what I found, he said he knows he should've told me but didn't think anything of it; his defense was he said 'everyone,' to which I replied 'In that case, why didn't you send it to 'everyone?'

As we are talking, he then tells me she had also called him but he didn't take the call, and that is why he emailed her. I asked were there any other instances he hadn't told me about? He said No. I said, No texts? No. No other emails? No. No other phone calls? No, he says.

Then, yes, because I just don't know if he's telling the truth anymore, I snooped in his phone to find where she called. And I couldn't find it. But I did find a text he sent to her just a week before, saying simply "See you soon!" So I thought, Well, maybe he called her instead, so I checked outgoing calls, and strangely enough, they were all deleted from the date of the text message to her. Needless to say, my suspicious mind makes up the scenario (is it made up, I wonder?) that he actually called her, then texted her, then erased the outgoing calls so I wouldn't know about it.

See what non-trust does????

I haven't told him I know he texted her. It is such a small text, and I don't KNOW that he called her... which is where the 'white lie' question comes in. I'm thinking he probably didn't tell me about the text because he just wanted the argument to end. I can understand that, I really can - at the same time, if it's such a small thing, shouldn't I expect NO white lies?

I am very confused. I have NEVER been the suspicious, jealous type, and I don't think I would be this way now if he had always been up front with me.

Any thoughts, feelings, reactions, questions?

**LanaBear** · 07-21-2010 02:03 PM

I don't know...

I think he's keeping it from you because he doesn't want to be yelled at. I mean, you are demanding he tells you when he talks to anybody of the opposite sex? That's a bit much IMO. If it is to that point, why even stay in the relationship? I don't want to sound harsh, but if he can't even talk to a female without being obligated to tell you, where is this relationship going to go?

He is going to get resentful (as he may already be) and just start keeping more and more things from you. You are going on the hunt to find anything and everything that can prove that he is communicating with someone. It's not healthy, for either of you. You either need to stop and trust him or back off and away from the relationship.

Besides talking to women, has he ever done anything that warrants your lack of trust in him?

**Syl** · 07-21-2010 02:29 PM

No, harsh is good, if it's what I need

Actually, it's only if he talks to his ex-girlfriends (he has many, ALL of which have remained friends). I know a few of them, but most I will never know, and I just think a soon-to-be married man doesn't need to be talking to every ex he's ever had in his life.

The mistrust began when he went to a concert at the beginning of our relationship and told me he was staying with 'friends.' It wasn't until I was going to meet the ex-girlfriend at a gathering that he told me he had actually stayed with her. Even then, at first he told me they had never had a relationship, but then before I actually met her he confessed that Yes, they had a relationship but it was over.

Up until that point, I'd been just as open with him as with anyone - for example, I knew he'd gone to yet another ex-girlfriend's birthday party, and all I had to say was Have fun and be careful! I also knew he had lunch sometimes with a female friend (not an ex) and again, no problem at all - he had tons of female friends on Facebook that he corresponded with, too - still no problems, but that's because he told me everything up front.

But I am afraid I have started obsessing... and except for this, it IS a wonderful, fulfilling relationship, and I don't want to ruin it. But I also want to protect myself.

(I was in a relationship for 16 years prior to this one, and at the very end, he confessed to me that he doesn't think he ever loved me, but had been in love with his ex-girlfriend all those years instead. My fiance knows this, and knows that this is part of my problem with the exes (especially the 'one') and that is why he agreed to the boundaries - because I was more important than the friendships and he understood where I was coming from.)

Which is why I don't get why he still lies?

**Olympia** · 07-21-2010 02:30 PM

Syl,
I have done the same thing and once you let that little green monster out, it is hard to control.

I remind myself of this saying, quite often....."A suspicious mind conjures it own demons...." it really helps me, and hope it does the same for you.

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 07-21-2010 05:16 PM

We got in a fairly deep/prolonged discussion just last week after he had me go into his email to find a thread between us and several other people (yup, including her) about a vacation planned together. He wanted me to find the flight info,

He could purely and simply have a very flirtatious nature, enjoys female company. With the knowledge of you checking emails, phones, (which spells non-trust) and often, more than often, your mind races into all sorts of directions as we live in a world of fantasy and we conj our up things that haven't happened and create arguments, more-non-trust

My advise is to sure, guard your heart but don't snoop... If it fails, it fails, if he cheats he cheats, you walk.. No point putting yourself through this so don't snoop. It could be why he deletes things.. knowing this. but they could just be flirtatious.

Re the above, so I take it you are going with him? Then it doesn't matter what he has said to her, if you are there as a couple. I would worry only if he was going alone, now that you are aware of all of those messages.

But, ultimately the only way we feel in-secure, is if we are in ourselves. If we are with someone we love and we know they love us, we can't afford to be. We need to have trust, honesty and with that trust, we know that if they were to break that, they're gone, in the meantime, it's important to have regardless or the relationship will not work.

I have male friends, I wouldn't ditch them but respectfully, I wouldn't have lunch with them either.. Coffee, sure. And, if lunch, I would take my partner. No point, creating jealousy either.

CW

**stressed** · 07-22-2010 04:47 AM

He first lied to you about staying over at friends' when he stayed over at an ex. This is not just a small lie, it's a serious one. He either didn't trust you enough to tell you where he was staying or he wanted to keep it a secret. Of course one becomes insecure after such a lie, let alone when this man still has contact with all his numerous ex'es (I wonder why? Does it boost his ego and masculinity to be around or have contact with women all the time?).

He seems to like talking with women, even if he doesn't feel for them the same as he does for you. He won't have sex with any of them so he doesn't feel he's doing anything disrespectful by just talking or flirting. But you are not comfortable with this anymore and one of you has to truly change. Telling you whether he talked with a girl or not is not a solution, he will only learn to do it in secret. Telling you to stop complaining about it is not a solution either. Does he need these people in his life? What do they offer him? Doesn't he have any real, male friends to talk to?

I've kind of had this problem before (mine was worse) and it ended with him having to choose between me or his random flirting with girls/women he had crushes on in the past, as I couldn't deal with it. I told him I didn't want to change him as a person, but I couldn't live like that any longer, it damaged my personality and I was jealous to a point when I went through his computer on a daily basis. Now he's removed every random person he's met on the internet, doesn't have contact with past crushes and so on.

It's not about wanting to control your SO, but making him realize that when you reach your limit he has to make a choice. You or the flirting. Jealousy doesn't just appear when you wake up, there are reasons that cause it and some times people intentionally do things to cause it to make their SO more interested in them and feel good about themselves as men/women. It gives them points, as in "she's jealous, so I must be so worth it". If he can't end this silly exchange then you are not bound to accept it. Make him choose or find someone who can show you the respect you deserve.

**Syl** · 07-22-2010 08:10 AM

CW, we did go on the vacation together - she spoke very little to me, even though I tried to engage her often by sitting down next to her (she would move) or coming up to the group she was in (she would leave).

My fiance told me last night she texted him a long message, telling him she was really sorry they weren't able to get alone to talk, and for him to make sure he stays in touch, and to call her soon.

My thoughts are - we are going to be married next month, and she should be having a relationship with BOTH of us, not just him. That would be fine in my book. Say, like he gives her my home phone number, then when she calls, if I answer we speak politely, she asks to speak to him, and I say Sure.

In my mind, it's not jealousy so much as wanting him to be up front. And yes, insecurity because of the past, which he has said he understood, would change his habits, but yet he hasn't. That is what bothers me.

But you are right, I can't control him nor his actions, and I am trying to keep him from resenting me. Except for this issue, everything else is more than I ever imagined, and I do not want to ruin it.

Stressed, I did ask him once what he got out of the relationships, and he said nothing more than talk, and that is when he told me hurting me wasn't worth it - but he didn't stop.

**crazy_lady21** · 07-22-2010 08:10 PM

i went through something pretty similar, it does get better thou.. i totally understand where you are saying that it not a jealous thing, but if he wants to stay friends with her and you are his wife then he needs to make sure that they all respect you as his wife. See with me it was some chick that my boyfriend was friends with who was totally okay with me and acted like a friend to me but once her boyfriend left her she was all over my boyfriend. it wasn't untill kind of recently i fould out what they really talked about and i told him the same thing, if its a friend thing you need to be just as respectful to me as i am to you. he really didnt understand right away took him a minute to relize the hurt that it had done to me. But once he had his time to get his head straight and i got mine okay (( i got all those bad thoughts out)) everything got very good!! well i still am ify on this girl because she said she was my friend and went behind my back and betryaed me and tried to get things out of my boyfriend. But now we are engaged we have been together forever and i know truly in my heart that if he wanted someone else he would not have bought me the ring. So in a way it helped! i hope that you are better now but i did want to share that you are not the only one that has gone threw this kinds of stuff, there are plenty of us out there but sometimes its your head getting so worked up. nothing that a little alone space couldn't help. if it is ment to be then it will happen.

**Allie602** · 07-24-2010 09:39 PM

I think if he loves you enough and knowing your history of your past relationship, he should be willing to do everything in his power to make you at ease. This is not an issue of jealousy, this situation is reminiscent of a very painful event in your life. Out of respect for your feelings, he should have no problems cutting off contact with this ex as an act of love and compassion to the person he loves.

If his friendship and contact with his ex is more important than your request than you know. If he is not able to keep his word after you let him know how you feel then I think you have a problem. You have to accept that this is the person he is, he is the type of person that goes back on his word when it suits him and he is deceptive. You are marrying him and he will not change.

If his ex is unfriendly to you then he should support you not her, he is the one who should make it clear that you are important in his life and as such, should be respected. Any women should expect this, it has nothing to do with control, you don't allow anyone to disrespect your spouse, period. Women who accept a lack of support from their spouse may have low self esteem.

I don't agree that you are trying to control him rather, you are simply asking him to show some compassion to you. I think women always second guess themselves and think they should not ask for what they. This is important to you because it upsets you, make it clear that you would like him to do this for you out of love. It's a request not a demand. It is perfectly reasonable given your history. If he is sneaking and hiding things from you then that is bad.

How would he feel if you were secretly communicating with an ex. Or if you started up a friendship with a man to talk about your problems?

I don't know if you are doing this or not, but I think you need to have your own set of friends and to go places with them. You need to have some activities that are yours alone. Don't do every thing with him, it makes him too sure of you and take you for granted. Have a night out with the girls. Begin to get involved in something that you enjoy and pursue it, make friends around that activity. As long as you make him your entire life, he may feel no need to change his behavior. He knows you will be there no matter what he does.

You can't make him do anything but you need to change it up girl if you don't want to be running around behind this man. Change yourself and your attitude, loosen up and stop concentrating on every thing he does, have some interest in common with him and some of your own. Make your request and then let it go. if you are sure you want to have him in your life you may be in for a rough ride if you don't play this right .

**Syl** · 07-27-2010 09:51 AM

I've decided I just need to tell him I can't handle him having a 'personal' relationship with his ex, then let him decide if HE can handle me saying that.

I talked with a good friend of mine who quite often helps me wade through things, and she made a good point: When we had a male friend who introduced his new girlfriend into the friends group, all the females went completely out of our way to make her feel welcome. We were so happy for our male friend! And we also wanted her to know, right up front, that there was nothing to worry about between us single females and her new man - once they became a tight item and she was there a lot, whenever we would call we would talk to HER, not him, just to keep things on the up and up.

I do not get that same courtesy from the ex - she's never emailed me or really even made mention of me when talking to my fiance. And indeed, while vacationing together, while all the other friends continuously congratulated us on the upcoming wedding, and continuously told my fiance and me how happy they were for us, the only words I got from the ex were 'I see you have something new on (referring to my engagement ring).' Then she turns to my fiance and says 'I would DEFINITELY be getting cold feet right now!' That was the one and only time she even mentioned our upcoming marriage.

But hence the other problem - she WILL be a part of future vacations, about every year or two, because prior to them being an item they were friends, and part of a larger group of friends, and that group still exists. So I have to tread so very carefully - she is a friend, will be a friend, and will be in the picture somewhat; I just don't want her in the picture ALONE with my fiance, is that so weird??

But it's also why it's such a mess....