would this upset you?

**Kallygirlie** · 10-07-2010 12:09 PM

About 3 yrs ago my fiance took out $6000 401k loan. He's told me he completely blew every dime of it on clothes for his now ex and alot of electronics. So with my advice, My fiance took out a $14,000 loan from his 401K this week. this was only possible by us paying the remaining balance of $250 from the prior loan (this was paid through our joint account). The main reason for this loan is to clear his debt (over $7000 worth). now there are a few issues I have that upset me

With a remaining $7000, is it wrong of me to ask him to help pay some of the wedding. Recently we found out that my dad isn't going to pay anything, which I never really expected him to. I bust my butt each month to keep our bills paid and try to get some of his past due debt paid. Due to this, we simply have no money for a wedding (we both work full time). Is it wrong of me to keep him from just blowing that remaining money? I know I have no say to this money, as it is his but we are already sharing our lives. We have a joint account and joint bills. I'm not asking for a $7000 wedding I'm not even asking for close to half of that. On top of that, would it upset you that your fiance (who says he's so excited to marry you) talks about buy lap tops and all this other stuff before the wedding is a thought (keep in mind, he was the one that wanted an April 2011 wedding).

What I'd like would be for him to call the collectors and negotiate the bills (i worked in debt collection and I know he can save about 40-50% of the money doing this), have them send him a letter clearing his credit (so its not stuck on there for 7 yrs). Pay at most $3000 for the wedding (cheaper if possible, I dont want a huge event). Yes a laptop would be nice since we own a side business and we do alot of charity work but not needed asap. All other money, put it in an interest baring savings account and use it as a down payment on a house or just a beginning nest egg.

Is that a horrible plan? I dont feel like I can really say much because yes it is his money. Yet in 6 months, we'll be married so do I have a say in how our future starts?

**pretzel** · 10-07-2010 12:52 PM

Not too unreasonable. Maybe shop around and find the best deal on a new laptop to appease him. But as for the other things, I agree with eliminating credit card debt, putting some away for the wedding (or honeymoon) or just for an emergency fund. Either way you know going in that he has that 14k debt sitting there but that's it. That's a much better starting position than where he is now.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 10-07-2010 01:03 PM

My suggestion is to get the two of you involved in a Dave Ramsey "Managing your Money" program. I know the wedding seems like the big issue right now, but once that's over, you're still with someone who is irresponsible with his money. What is the number one cause for fights in most marriages? I'd say easily, finances.

Now, to your actual question, I'm highly against taking money out of your 401(k) for any reason really. (My degree is in finance

) In a sense, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, except in this case, you're robbing yourself, your future. But, since the deed is already done, and if it comes down to him blowing it on junk vs helping to pay for a small wedding I'd say helping with the wedding is definitely the best option and no, I don't think you should feel bad for suggesting it.

**pretzel** · 10-07-2010 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Now, to your actual question, I'm highly against taking money out of your 401(k) for any reason really. (My degree is in finance

) In a sense, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, except in this case, you're robbing yourself, your future. But, since the deed is already done, and if it comes down to him blowing it on junk vs helping to pay for a small wedding I'd say helping with the wedding is definitely the best option and no, I don't think you should feel bad for suggesting it.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not so dead set against borrowing against your own equity position here. They're both young enough that the long term effect might not be as great. What they seem to be doing is getting away from the concept of "other people's money" by eliminating debt owed to others and replacing it with debt owed to themselves. Granted it's an obligation that must be fulfilled and paid on a timely basis (which it will be if through payroll deduction back to the 401k) so the end result might be postitive in that credit rating can be improved through forced repayment rather than voluntary repayment.

**Kallygirlie** · 10-07-2010 01:48 PM

Oh I can agree with the #1 reason for fights in a marriage. We already have that issue. I was raised to budget. When I moved out of my parents at age 19, I lived in a once bdrm apart. Was never late on rent. Now I'm with a guy who ran eviction notices at his last apartment. His concept of a budget is horrible. We give ourselves a $50.00/wk allowence that is just for us to splurg for ourselves. All bills, gas, groceries and all that comes out of the joint acct. I have managed to build up a small savings account were as he cant seem to get his savings over $30.00. Each week he'll say, "i took $20.00 out of my savings but i'll put it back next week". Next week never comes. It drives me nuts!!!

My brother has used the Dave Ramsey program and loves it. Bottom line, when it comes to this loan, I simply dont trust him with it. I'm gonna go to work and he's gonna be $1000 short from shopping. I think we deserve a nice wedding and not some shot gun wedding.

It does bother me a little that he had no problem blowing $6000 on his ex when they were together but now our wedding is the last thing on his mind. Thats like a stab in the gut.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 10-07-2010 01:53 PM

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not so dead set against borrowing against your own equity position here.

Well, there are a few different ways to look at it. But in this case, considering he's done it now twice and I'm guessing is in his 20's, I don't consider it a positive thing.

And I think you could talk to any financial advisor in this position and they'd tell you the same.

For their age, the amount of money he's taken from his 401(k) is very significant and will undoubtedly have an affect on his retirement. So in other words, borrowing from your 401(k) may not hurt your credit, but by the time you have paid the penalties for early withdrawal, and by the time you have removed a significant chunk out of a young persons 401(k).....trust me, damage is done.

His concept of a budget is horrible

Get this straightened out BEFORE a wedding hun. Please. He's got to start taking responsibility for his financial decisions.

It does bother me a little that he had no problem blowing $6000 on his ex when they were together but now our wedding is the last thing on his mind. Thats like a stab in the gut.

You've seen his financial irresponsibility. Do you honestly believe he blew $6k of it JUST on her? I for one find that very hard to believe and I'd say if nothing else it was an excuse for blowing through a butt load of money that quick. I'm sure he did let her spend some of it.

I know you want to get married, and I know you love your guy...... but right now the sense of urgency needs to be on working out your financial incompatibilities, or be prepared for a life of fighting over money and bailing him out of situation after situation.

**Kallygirlie** · 10-07-2010 02:23 PM

I'm 27 and He's 31 actually. The 401K is not an early withdrawl. Its considered a loan. He pays it back with a smaller interest rate than you would have through a bank and its paid back throught payroll deduction. The payment plan on this one is 4yrs at $78/wk and some change. thats just another issue in itself. I budget the money but he didn't talk to me about the pay plan before he agreed. he was paying $40/wk on his other loan. He raised it by $30 so he could have it paid off quicker but thats gonna put a strain on us when he has his short weeks. He works swing shift 4 on 4 off, so every 4 weeks he get a paycheck that is 3 12 hr days instead of 4. Take $78 out of a $450 paycheck, its gonna hurt.

Him and i are already in marriage counseling and finances were the first thing i put on the table. He doesnt like me controlling the money but he cant be trusted with it. I'm def not shy about telling him that. What scares me is this check is going in a personal acct of his. up until now, he hasn't been able to get a bank acct because of his credit history so I have 3 in my name, a person for each and a "joint". I wont have any access to seeing what he's spent and that scares me. I can see this money killing our relationship if he blows through it and doesn't use it for what it was drawn out for. Like you said, dont get married until the finacial side is settled. I cant live a life of fighting over money. I get nervous if the account is under $100.00. He ride his to cents.

**stressed** · 10-07-2010 02:59 PM

All I can say is, solve your financial issues before you marry. Don't marry hoping he'll become more concerned about your finances as a married couple, as this is who he is. If finances is your no.1 issue now it will still be 10 years later. He's 31, he's supposed to know better.

**Beautiful Disaster** · 10-07-2010 03:29 PM

A 401(k) loan, I see. I misunderstood. I know I'm pretty hard nosed when it comes to finances, and even I could bend a bit and say that MAYBE there would be a situation (medical emergency, loss of job, etc) in which borrowing from your 401(k) may be necessary. I would, however, still say that borrowing from your 401(k) as a result of poor financial decisions, and then doing so again because you've made poor decisions again.. is a recipe for disaster and very telling of his priorities.

He can be the best person in the world, a sweet loving nurturing man. But I think you're totally right in being concerned, because while all those things mean ALOT, the irresponsibility with his money (AND you're money) will be VERY detrimental to your life and your happiness.

I think you're very smart and you seem to definitely have YOUR head on straight....but gal you've got your work cut out for you if you're going to try to get his on straight too. He needs to realize this is something crucial to you, this is a dealbreaker for you, and that he needs to work on it BEFORE marriage.

**Hopeless Dork** · 10-07-2010 04:33 PM

Personally, I don't think its all that surprising that he'd think of tangible things he could buy with the money, like a lap top before thinking of ways to spend the money on the wedding. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to marry you just as badly its just maybe he doesn't see the logic behind all that goes into wedding planning costs. I mean, its ONE day, granted its a special day, but its your and his day... I think as long as he is considering spending the money on things the two of you would enjoy its just as thoughtful as thinking of spending the money on food other people will eat at the reception (and likely moan about later anyway... no matter what it is).