The problem is - with more options, or ways out after the fact, an increased sense of responsibility is rarely gained.Originally Posted by WildChild
Accepting your mistake, and dealing with the consequences, I think, is a better way to learn.
A good percentage of women who get one abortion will get another.
Oh - I don't know about that.
I think no matter what choices people may or may not have regarding BC, people are still going to have sex. Repercussions aside, who hasn't made a poor choice regarding sex, sexual partners, BC, etc. I have and I've learned from them.
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Whoever said anything was possible obviously never tried slamming a revolving door.
Accurate numbers or stats on this seem to be virtually impossible to get, organizations that promote a veiwpoint will hide that and present statistics to support their perspective.
A common claim, which may well be true, is that half of all pregnancies are unplanned and close to half of these are terminated. But just because something is widely repeated doesn't make it true. If it is true, it's sad that in this day and age we are so haphazard with reproduction.
Aside from agreement on these fugures, it seems to get a bit iffy, It does appear the about 2% of women ages 15-45 a year have abortions and over a lifetime between 25% and 35% of women will have an abortion. The stats on repeats vary widely with reports of 20% -49% having more than one abortion - that's quite a varience.
I did find numbers that 46% had not used contraceptives in the month they got pregnant. Of the 54% who reported using contraception; 76% on the pill and 49% using condoms, reported inconsistant use. 33% believed themselves to be low risk for pregnancy and 32% had concerns about using contraception, while 26% had "unexpected" sex. If these numbers from the Guttmacher Inst are accurate, that tells me that tells me that 91% of these pregnancies might have been prevented with better understanding of their bodies and education about preventing pregnancy.
This applies to women and men. If both understood the pregnancy risks fully and the ease of contraception as compared to pregnancy and raising a child you are unprepared for, both would be less likely to indulge in unprotected sex.
We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer
Biology makes the situation asymmetric: Unless we either make abortion illegal, or allow forced abortions (both a bad idea to me), the woman gets the choice of whether to continue an unwanted pregnancy. Since it is her decision, I believe that support of the child should be her responsibility.
Birth control is far from perfect: condoms break, people forget to take the pill, surgical sterilization is difficult to reverse, etc. The reality is that if people have sex some of them will get pregnant.
I am also aware of cases where a woman has tricked a man into getting her pregnant in order to keep him or collect child support. Yes he should use a condom, but what if he trusts her that she is on birth control (and she lies). What if she has poked a hole in the condom (this happens), or get him drunk and has sex with him. What if she tells him she will get an abortion if she gets pregnant, then doesn't.
Don't get me wrong - some men use all sorts of evil tricks (that stop short of rape) to have sex with women, but the woman has the option of aborting any pregnancy.
Also - people *should* understand the risks of pregnancy, but in a lot of cases they just act stupid. Honestly - how many people in this group have at some point had unprotected sex when they weren't planning on pregnancy? The penalty for stupidity shouldn't be a lifetime commitment to raise and care for a child.
I'd say *most* of the cases. They teach you in 3rd grade in public school how babies are made.
So aborting, or murdering, for lack of a better word, the child is the way to go? They can always give the child for adoption.
I think it should remain legal...Sorry, I know its a touchy subject and there are lots different scenarios that can be used to show why it should be illegal...And I agree with OTYA that, for most, an abundance of choices usually gives them the opportunity to avoid taking responsibility for their actions...
But if abortions were suddenly illegal, there would be a definite increase in the market for illegal medical abortions, or unsafe abortions in the home using chemicals and whatnot...More than likely our taxes would rise b/c so many single mothers would be on welfare/govt support to help raise this child...
Adoption doesnt seem like the most viable option to me either...More times than not, at least around here, kids just dont get adopted...And they end up being govt wards, moving from foster homes to group homes...I think thats an awful way to have to grow up, just because someone else decided that they couldnt deal with you and left you on the sole hope that someone else would take you in...The "system" is already so overworked and overburdended and unfortunately it doesnt always work to the advantage of its wards...I think also that this would eventually lead to an increase in crime rates all over...Perhaps not for all but for some if not most...
I dont think abortion is murder either...Firmly believe that a fetus has not yet developed into a human form...Its funny how people take abortion so seriously, killing doctors and whatnot who perform it for an unborn, unknown, faceless, nameless fetus that has no idea what life is or pain is or where it is or what it is...cant think, cant understand...Meanwhile, we've got our governments bombing other countries where real live breathing people live...We've got places where people are dying because they are hurt and abused or killed over colours that they wear or ethnic/religious groups that they belong to...we've got human trafficking, organ trafficking, drug trafficking, weapon/arms dealings...If you could even consider it an issue, I'd say abortion is the least of our worries...
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
Calling abortion murder is sensationalizing it, and doesn't make for a good argument, even if it's how you truly feel.
My reaction to this title was ... I thought they could. They do it every day. They get the woman caught up in a legal system that she can't necessarily afford or manipulate (in a good way or bad way) in order to get out of paying. They find loopholes. They do everything they possibly can to tire the woman out so she'll stop coming after him. We hear all the time about men who owe tens of thousands of dollars to women and are still running away. They'll always run away.
It's deadbeat behavior and our culture doesn't condone it. THAT'S what these men want ... cultural approval, not legality. If doing something "illegal" garners little to NO consequences, it's not really illegal is it? By the books, maybe. But not for practical purposes. They just want a free pass to be deadbeats and do things that are viewed as morally corrupt by their culture.
That's not to say that there aren't women who play the system in the same way .... the ones who buy lipo or expensive handbags with their checks, the ones who follow every raise or promotion their ex gets in order to get more money ... they want a free pass to be deadbeats too. And the honorable men who want to help financially and otherwise raise their children pay for those deadbeats, just as the single mothers do.
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Women are female (adj,) but not females (n.) We aren't dogs.
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I completely agree. Passing something like this would be a way for the deadbeats to really get what they want. I'm sorry but I feel that if a man is honorable, he will willingly step up and be a man. Not all unwanted pregnancies were planned as a trap by the women. Things do happen, both parents are blind sided and passing a law like this would do nothing but raise the abortion rates and or raise the amount of children being givin up for adoption. If a women gets pregnant and the father gives up his financial rights, whats she going to do? being a single mom is hard enough. The day men start giving birth is the day men will have the biggest say in weather or not a baby will be born.
Thank also this way. there is an article i read the other day of a women who's husband told her when she got pregnant with their 2nd child that she either give it up or he'll leave. she gave it up for adoption. 2 yrs later he leaves her anyways. now she is fight the parents that legally adopted her daughter for custody of her daughter back. this happens more than you think.
I just think this will be nothing more then a way for miserable excuses for men to cop out of responsiblity. conceiving a child is a 50/50 job so the responsibility of the raising the child should be 50/50 as well
Now as little pointed out, there are deadbeat women to. My cousin used to take my neighbor to court twice a yr to get child support raised, she would even put the kids in day care for court so he woul dhave to pay the cost, then she would pull them out when she would start getting the money. its was so horrible to see that
Krystal
"They" is the operative word. The man isn't the one who has to go through all the physical and hormonal changes, discomfort, delivery, recovery and risk. It isn't his body carrying the baby. This HAS to be the woman's decision.
Abortion should never be thought of an alternative to conception control.
But accidents do happen and women must have choices.
Unfortunately, the people mostly strongly opposed to women's choice are usually the most strongly opposed to useful and adequate sex and contraceptive education; they favor abstinance. They also oppose funding for clinics to make contraceptives and education about their appropriate use easiy available and they oppose funding prenatal care for women who do get pregnant as well as programs to ensure the health and well care of the infants.
I don't want to hyjack this thread but this issue is germaine to the original question. let me pose one that I put to my exhusband, who was strongly anti choice (something I didn't know when I married him)
Let us assume that your beloved lady is one of those whose bc fails or perhaps you two chose to have a child. The two of you learn that she is pregnant. She is a lovely, intelligent, educated woman, years of care, teaching and development have gone into her reaching adulthood to be the person she is.
The exam finds a previously unknown health problem or perhaps it is a problem related to the pregnancy, or perhaps she was in a terrible car accident which messed up traffic for hours? The doctor says if the pregnancy is terminated the problem can be corrected and she can live a long, full, happy life and probably have children later. If she continues the pregnancy she may end up debilitated for life or will die.
What do you think the choice should be?
My ex refused to answer, he couldn't. He tried to cop out saying I would have to choose in that case. I took that away and said, "I'm in a medically induced coma, you have to decide right now - surgery including an abortion and my life, no surgery and maybe a baby but I die or am disabled, in pain for life. He got into a snit and still refused to answer.
Few cases are this extreme, although it happens. There are those who so devalue a woman's life that even in such a case they would see her die. But there are factors that only the individual woman can assess; her emotional state of being a big one. To an outsider it would seem to be no big deal but to her it may be emotionally life or death. Taking away the choice isn't the answer. Increasing the options is and top of that list should be educated, effective conception control. That will reduce the potiential abortion rate dramtically.
People won't quit having sex. Even in countries where they are killed (at least the women) for premarital or extramarital sex - they still do it. It is irrational to think they will change. Every one of us, female and male has to act responsibly for ourselves and insist on it from our sexual partners as well. And we have to start insisting on better forms of conception control and education. We have to ask questions and insist on good answers. Uneducated, uninformed people have a hard time asking the right questions.
That said, if a woman is willing to continue an unplanned pregnancy there should be some guidelines in place reguarding the man's responsibility. Currently in a marriage even if the child proves not to be the husband's he may be responsible for support. This may seem wrong but is a case of putting the child's welfare before the adults. Although it may be adding insult to injury. Again, my ex dealt with that, he believed his daughter wasn't his child and wanted to have testing done when she was a teen. I talked him out of it; he may well have been right but he loved her dearly and the emotional damage that it could have done her and him would never be worth his temporary pleasure in throwing it in his exwife's face. He may begrudge the child support he paid but the girl is a lovely young woman and hopefully will always be unaware of the man she loves as her father's belief.
If the woman is unwilling or unable to raise the child and the father is able, he should get the child rather than it being adopted out. If he wishes to be a part of it's life, he should also be able to do that.
We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer
My ex owes about $20K in back support. I don't expect to see a dime.
We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer
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