should men have the right to walk away?

**Kallygirlie** · 09-23-2009, 08:09 AM

I heard this on the radio this morning and boy did it have me fired up. I wanted to get your input on this one. There is now a group of mens right's advocates that claim that women have more rights than women when it comes to pregnancies. Women have the right to give the child up for adoption or have an abortion but men do not have the option to give the child up if he does not want or can not support the child. They are arguing that men should have a time frame after finding out a women is pregnant to opt out of financial responsibilty so that the women can then decide on what she would like to do knowing she will not have support. Am I the only one who thinks this is competely ridiculous.

I truely dont think anyone would allow this but who knows in today's world. I've always been one to believe that everyone knows what can come of sex. If you dont protect yourself than dont be surprised when a baby comes along. I just dont think the child should be the one that suffers. I mean I do understand there are some women out there that want to trap the guy and lies about being on BC but once an innocent life has been created, should one party be able to just back out? I can see the different angles on this topic. At the end of the day for me, I just think that the child was created by 2 people and those 2 people should be responsible.

**Nats** · 09-23-2009, 09:14 AM

They're starting a group for this??? Sheesh...

I can kinda see where they are coming from - Its like, if they dont want to be involved they're basically holding their breathe while the woman decides what she wants to do - So if she's going to have it, he's unhappy and if she isnt then he can breathe a sigh of relief...I dont think its the whole idea of sex=baby=responsibility but more the fact that its the woman who gets to decide if she wants to have the baby or not while the guy is just waiting to see what she does...

It'd be nice if people could sit and talk about it...They did conceive it together so it sucks that the entire decision to keep or not belongs to the woman...I'd feel terrible if I didnt ask my SO and just went ahead and got rid of the baby only to later know that he wanted to keep it...

Did u get to hear what other peoples thoughts were on the radio?

**WildChild** · 09-23-2009, 09:17 AM

This does bring up a real issue and some cause for serious thought. It takes two people to start a pregnancy. I am a strong advocate of a woman's right to choose, however that shouldn't abrogate a man's right to have a choice. It is true a woman does have and has to have, more "rights" in this - it's her body that goes through the pregnancy and delivery. I do not think anyone should be able to force a woman to become pregnant or to continue a pregnancy, but do think that, aside from life threatening situations, she needs to make the decision early on.

However, realistically there are women who get pregnant in an attempt to bind a man to them. There are women who do not act consciously but set up situations by not taking bc as directed to get pregnant. We get posters here who are doing that. At some point the question of a man's resposibility in these cases needs to be addressed. The assumption that the man is always financially responsible is rather sexist and holds the woman in the "vessel" role. It could be said this essentially reflects the thinking that women are less responsible and can't be held accountable for their actions.

At the same time, women who get pregnant and cannot afford the medical costs or to raise a child, become a huge drain on a society's resources. The quandry of course, is that this isn't the child's fault and they should not be made to suffer for the adult's poor choices. Nor should the society be burdened with dealing with a lifetime of poor choices.... I'd better stop, this could be a book. For generations women were treated as property, in many cases unable to legally own even the clothes on their body, a cold hard look at the situation today isn't exactly utopian as far as women are concerned. In the US we make Less to a man's dollar now than we did 25 years ago. There are deeply embeded cultural and religious forces in play with this entire situation.

This is a grey area, there are couples who plan pregnancy and then the man (or sometimes the woman) gets cold feet. The man can hike, the woman, depending on where she is, the laws and her resources, may have very limited choices; I've known women that has happened to. There are women who get pregnant and never tell the man. I know some of them - one night stand or they broke up before she knew she was pregnant.

There are so many sides to this and unfortunately the people who argue the hardest about these issues tend to be those who would like to make women into men's chattle. This tends to prevent a mature, considered discourse on the subject. In a perfect world, where people acted rationally and in their own, as well as society's best interests, there would be no unplanned pregnancies, no unwanted children, no child abuse. Conception control would be widely available and affordable. Sex education would be honest rather than ideological fantasy.

Really the choice needs to be made before a pregnancy occurs. There seems to have been very little advancement made in adequate conception control in the past 20 to 30 years. At least in the US this seems to have been siderailed by the abstinance crowd. While STI control alone ought to insure more condom use, we need conception control that men can take as well as better options for women. The conception control available now seems to have more side effects than it did years ago, almost like it's been designed as a punishment to women for choosing to have sex without pregnancy. We need better education, we need a stronger sense of the responsibility and costs of the choices we make for both genders. We need to quit thinking like victims and start acting like conscious, rational beings.

**Nats** · 09-23-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildChild

We need to quit thinking like victims and start acting like conscious, rational beings.

Nice, I like that...

**Kallygirlie** · 09-23-2009, 09:33 AM

see i to agree and understand both sides of the story here. Women will lie to bind a man to her. Have his baby so he cant leave her. She may lie saying she's on birth control but really, if a man truely does not want a baby than shouldn't he protect himself. he does have a say in how the bc is handled. Just like a women can say no sex without a condom, so can a man. I know this is far from a perfect world. Yes women can make the choice to term a pregnancy but not in all cases. Morally I would never be able to have an abortion so If I would have ended up getting pregnant than I would have been just as much surprised as him and it would have been something I would have to live with, but not him? I have a friend who got pregnant while on bcp. In her case, should the man be allowed to just walk away. it was something that happened to the both of them. No games, no tricks, just happened. this is going to end up leaving many women, who like the man, were blind sided by the pregnancy, that will be left to raise the child alone. I just think many men will take the cop out. It'll give a man even more reason to not protect themselves from pregnancy from happening. why should they wear a condom when they can just opt out of a childs life if it happens? I do agree tho that a man should have more rights. They couple should talk about what they want from this. But of course a women will have the final say, it is her body.

**Kallygirlie** · 09-23-2009, 09:34 AM

the response on the radio was mixed. all the men who called in where saying it was a great idea that needed to be put into action. Most women were saying its complete .

**LanaBear** · 09-23-2009, 10:22 AM

I can see both sides of this, I mean there are some shady women out there who get pregnant to stay in a relationship.

With that said, not sure how this works, but can't a guy at any time give up his rights to the child? One of my friends ex's did this, I'm not sure of the details... But isn't this exactly what they are looking for?

**Hopeless Dork** · 09-23-2009, 10:29 AM

Opting out of pregnancy for a man is easy, get a vasectomy or use a condom (or 2) every single time during sex even if she's on the pill. There , easy, problem solved.

I do undertand its unfair that the woman holds the power to decide whether or not they'll be paying child support for 18 years. They should be having sex with women they know, women they love, women they trust to know what they would do if a pregnancy would occur. They should know if the woman wants a baby or does not and be on the same page - or bounce.

Unfortunately for guys, its just the way it works... women get to decide whether or not they want a baby --- (they are also the ones that have to carry it in their bodies, gain weight - put themself in harms way and go through labor and delivery).

The group is stupid. It will go nowhere. If men want to opt out -- they need to opt out of ejaculating inside random women.

**Hopeless Dork** · 09-23-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanaBear

I can see both sides of this, I mean there are some shady women out there who get pregnant to stay in a relationship.

With that said, not sure how this works, but can't a guy at any time give up his rights to the child? One of my friends ex's did this, I'm not sure of the details... But isn't this exactly what they are looking for?

They CAN sign away paternal rights, they can't sign away child support obligation.

**Kallygirlie** · 09-23-2009, 10:34 AM

I think the only way a guy can give up his rights is if it is agreed by both parties. I could be wrong tho.

this really isn't one sided post at all. I mean there's many types of men out there as well as women. Some men, Like my friend would jump on this chance. He never wore a condom (said he was allergic, lol) yet he freaked out when he thought one of the girls was pregnant.

then you have my cousin who got pregnant at 15. The child is now 12, has never known her dad. He walked out of her life and my cousin was I guess to naive to fight for child support. My cousin is now married and her husband wants to adopt the child so that everyone in the family has the same last name and he loves her as his own. The bio father refuses to give up his right even tho he has never once seen his daughter. Court says nothing can be done if he doesnt give up his rights.

So if men should be allowed to give up there rights then shouldn't women be able to give them up for them like in my cousins case. A loving father wants to adopt her but the dead beat wont let it happen.

Theres just sooooo many angles on this

09-23-2009, 08:09 AM	#1
Kallygirlie Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Simon Champion! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 367	should men have the right to walk away? I heard this on the radio this morning and boy did it have me fired up. I wanted to get your input on this one. There is now a group of mens right's advocates that claim that women have more rights than women when it comes to pregnancies. Women have the right to give the child up for adoption or have an abortion but men do not have the option to give the child up if he does not want or can not support the child. They are arguing that men should have a time frame after finding out a women is pregnant to opt out of financial responsibilty so that the women can then decide on what she would like to do knowing she will not have support. Am I the only one who thinks this is competely ridiculous. I truely dont think anyone would allow this but who knows in today's world. I've always been one to believe that everyone knows what can come of sex. If you dont protect yourself than dont be surprised when a baby comes along. I just dont think the child should be the one that suffers. I mean I do understand there are some women out there that want to trap the guy and lies about being on BC but once an innocent life has been created, should one party be able to just back out? I can see the different angles on this topic. At the end of the day for me, I just think that the child was created by 2 people and those 2 people should be responsible. __________________ Krystal

09-23-2009, 09:14 AM	#2
Nats Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 369 Blog Entries: 7	They're starting a group for this??? Sheesh... I can kinda see where they are coming from - Its like, if they dont want to be involved they're basically holding their breathe while the woman decides what she wants to do - So if she's going to have it, he's unhappy and if she isnt then he can breathe a sigh of relief...I dont think its the whole idea of sex=baby=responsibility but more the fact that its the woman who gets to decide if she wants to have the baby or not while the guy is just waiting to see what she does... It'd be nice if people could sit and talk about it...They did conceive it together so it sucks that the entire decision to keep or not belongs to the woman...I'd feel terrible if I didnt ask my SO and just went ahead and got rid of the baby only to later know that he wanted to keep it... Did u get to hear what other peoples thoughts were on the radio? __________________ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch

09-23-2009, 09:17 AM	#3
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,230 Blog Entries: 5	This does bring up a real issue and some cause for serious thought. It takes two people to start a pregnancy. I am a strong advocate of a woman's right to choose, however that shouldn't abrogate a man's right to have a choice. It is true a woman does have and has to have, more "rights" in this - it's her body that goes through the pregnancy and delivery. I do not think anyone should be able to force a woman to become pregnant or to continue a pregnancy, but do think that, aside from life threatening situations, she needs to make the decision early on. However, realistically there are women who get pregnant in an attempt to bind a man to them. There are women who do not act consciously but set up situations by not taking bc as directed to get pregnant. We get posters here who are doing that. At some point the question of a man's resposibility in these cases needs to be addressed. The assumption that the man is always financially responsible is rather sexist and holds the woman in the "vessel" role. It could be said this essentially reflects the thinking that women are less responsible and can't be held accountable for their actions. At the same time, women who get pregnant and cannot afford the medical costs or to raise a child, become a huge drain on a society's resources. The quandry of course, is that this isn't the child's fault and they should not be made to suffer for the adult's poor choices. Nor should the society be burdened with dealing with a lifetime of poor choices.... I'd better stop, this could be a book. For generations women were treated as property, in many cases unable to legally own even the clothes on their body, a cold hard look at the situation today isn't exactly utopian as far as women are concerned. In the US we make Less to a man's dollar now than we did 25 years ago. There are deeply embeded cultural and religious forces in play with this entire situation. This is a grey area, there are couples who plan pregnancy and then the man (or sometimes the woman) gets cold feet. The man can hike, the woman, depending on where she is, the laws and her resources, may have very limited choices; I've known women that has happened to. There are women who get pregnant and never tell the man. I know some of them - one night stand or they broke up before she knew she was pregnant. There are so many sides to this and unfortunately the people who argue the hardest about these issues tend to be those who would like to make women into men's chattle. This tends to prevent a mature, considered discourse on the subject. In a perfect world, where people acted rationally and in their own, as well as society's best interests, there would be no unplanned pregnancies, no unwanted children, no child abuse. Conception control would be widely available and affordable. Sex education would be honest rather than ideological fantasy. Really the choice needs to be made before a pregnancy occurs. There seems to have been very little advancement made in adequate conception control in the past 20 to 30 years. At least in the US this seems to have been siderailed by the abstinance crowd. While STI control alone ought to insure more condom use, we need conception control that men can take as well as better options for women. The conception control available now seems to have more side effects than it did years ago, almost like it's been designed as a punishment to women for choosing to have sex without pregnancy. We need better education, we need a stronger sense of the responsibility and costs of the choices we make for both genders. We need to quit thinking like victims and start acting like conscious, rational beings. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

09-23-2009, 09:33 AM	#5
Kallygirlie Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Simon Champion! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 367	see i to agree and understand both sides of the story here. Women will lie to bind a man to her. Have his baby so he cant leave her. She may lie saying she's on birth control but really, if a man truely does not want a baby than shouldn't he protect himself. he does have a say in how the bc is handled. Just like a women can say no sex without a condom, so can a man. I know this is far from a perfect world. Yes women can make the choice to term a pregnancy but not in all cases. Morally I would never be able to have an abortion so If I would have ended up getting pregnant than I would have been just as much surprised as him and it would have been something I would have to live with, but not him? I have a friend who got pregnant while on bcp. In her case, should the man be allowed to just walk away. it was something that happened to the both of them. No games, no tricks, just happened. this is going to end up leaving many women, who like the man, were blind sided by the pregnancy, that will be left to raise the child alone. I just think many men will take the cop out. It'll give a man even more reason to not protect themselves from pregnancy from happening. why should they wear a condom when they can just opt out of a childs life if it happens? I do agree tho that a man should have more rights. They couple should talk about what they want from this. But of course a women will have the final say, it is her body. __________________ Krystal

09-23-2009, 09:34 AM	#6
Kallygirlie Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Simon Champion! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 367	the response on the radio was mixed. all the men who called in where saying it was a great idea that needed to be put into action. Most women were saying its complete . __________________ Krystal

09-23-2009, 10:22 AM	#7
LanaBear Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Moon Lander Champion! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: A cozy little cottage on the moon. :-) Posts: 1,668 Blog Entries: 5	I can see both sides of this, I mean there are some shady women out there who get pregnant to stay in a relationship. With that said, not sure how this works, but can't a guy at any time give up his rights to the child? One of my friends ex's did this, I'm not sure of the details... But isn't this exactly what they are looking for? __________________ Sometimes life isn't the party we hoped for, but since we're here, we might as well DANCE!

09-23-2009, 10:29 AM	#8
Hopeless Dork Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,236	Opting out of pregnancy for a man is easy, get a vasectomy or use a condom (or 2) every single time during sex even if she's on the pill. There , easy, problem solved. I do undertand its unfair that the woman holds the power to decide whether or not they'll be paying child support for 18 years. They should be having sex with women they know, women they love, women they trust to know what they would do if a pregnancy would occur. They should know if the woman wants a baby or does not and be on the same page - or bounce. Unfortunately for guys, its just the way it works... women get to decide whether or not they want a baby --- (they are also the ones that have to carry it in their bodies, gain weight - put themself in harms way and go through labor and delivery). The group is stupid. It will go nowhere. If men want to opt out -- they need to opt out of ejaculating inside random women. __________________ ------------- Defintion of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

09-23-2009, 10:34 AM	#10
Kallygirlie Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Simon Champion! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 367	I think the only way a guy can give up his rights is if it is agreed by both parties. I could be wrong tho. this really isn't one sided post at all. I mean there's many types of men out there as well as women. Some men, Like my friend would jump on this chance. He never wore a condom (said he was allergic, lol) yet he freaked out when he thought one of the girls was pregnant. then you have my cousin who got pregnant at 15. The child is now 12, has never known her dad. He walked out of her life and my cousin was I guess to naive to fight for child support. My cousin is now married and her husband wants to adopt the child so that everyone in the family has the same last name and he loves her as his own. The bio father refuses to give up his right even tho he has never once seen his daughter. Court says nothing can be done if he doesnt give up his rights. So if men should be allowed to give up there rights then shouldn't women be able to give them up for them like in my cousins case. A loving father wants to adopt her but the dead beat wont let it happen. Theres just sooooo many angles on this __________________ Krystal

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Charge forward or walk away?	yun	Dating	2	02-09-2008 09:02 AM
Why can't I walk away?	consmile	Relationships	3	10-09-2007 07:52 AM
Breast cancer 3 day walk	KitKat	Fitness	0	06-13-2007 01:38 PM
3 day walk!!! Breast cancer	KitKat	Cancer	0	06-13-2007 01:37 PM