Have you been on the MEDICAL MERRY-GO-ROUND? - Page 3

**Mr. ED** · 11-03-2009, 04:17 PM

WC:
Believe me or not, I have not heard of a naturopath. Is that a doctor like an O.D.? I am flat out "fed up" with doctors, obviously, if you read my lengthy post. They give you whatever they think they can make money on. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

**Mr. ED** · 11-03-2009, 04:30 PM

C W:
Thanks for your reply. I really don't know about income protection, and contents insurance but it seems I struck a nerve with that post. From reading the replies it seems to be synonymous that the "supposedly" richest country in the world has the most expensive health insurance but the results in practice could sometimes be compared to certain third world countries. My monthly health insurance premium is 4X my mortgage. It just went up $90.00 October 1st. Millions of people here are waiting in very long lines for an H1N1 flu shot but only children and pregnant women are able to get it. It's really funny because almost every commercial on TV is telling you to get vaccinated! My wife and I can't even get the seasonal flu injection. I'm a retired state employee and they're free for me and my spouse but they cancelled the program again this week because it's not available!

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 11-03-2009, 05:16 PM

I have to admit, I was gobsmacked and still am at most of what I am reading...

I don't know if it's because Australia have "less people"..

Even the un-employed receive at least $150 a week from our Government and then up to $50 a week for rent assistance, if children are involved, then there's some free child care, and allowances there as well.. I think my neighbour who has two children, receives something like $450 a week from the Government for being a "single parent" ..

How much are your Mortgages? Our health insurance is like $90 a month here for basic cover for hospital and ambulance with a small excess, our Mortgages are around $350 a week for say $250k and $500 a week for $400k homes..

Which still makes it hard for people that have one job....

**Mr. ED** · 11-03-2009, 06:00 PM

Well I guess it works in reverse in your country. My mortgage is only $200.00 a month because it's a relatively old house. I too was gobsmacked after reading your mortgage payments PER WEEK!!! But the health care for the two of us cost's $740.00 a month. But that does cover just about everything. If a person is on Medicare the office visits are included. Non Medicare members have a $20.00 per visit copay and a $30.00 per visit copay if your refereed to a specialist. Health care reform is supposed to change all that, but I'll believe it when I see it. There are many poor people here that are against change and the only reason I can come up with is that they just don't trust the government. And after the administration of the last 8 years I can't say that I blame them.

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 11-03-2009, 07:45 PM

Does sound - reversed doesn't it...

But, also to me, that's ridiculously outrageous.... Where some would have to rent as they can't afford a Mortgage, 4 x's the amount to ensure safety can't be solved if not enough income coming through.....

And it poses the answer as to why the Doctors need more referrals for income, assuming it's because not enough people can afford Health Insurance and therefore, don't attend Doctors...

**Little** · 11-03-2009, 08:05 PM

What I stated was 100% true: if you don't pre-pay, you can't get an office visit.
An office visit is cheaper than an emergency room visit.
I know emergencies can't be turned away. And I know for a fact that emergency room visits can cost (upwards of) $6000. How do I know? I added up my boyfriend's bills. He's had 7-8 different places bill him ... a new one came in recently. The hospital had no way to tell him who would be billing him, so he can't contest any.
Workplaces have social responsibilities too. They get all the perks of being "individuals" under the law without any of the consequences. Even McDonald's has an insurance plan. My workplace has a very good benefits plan. Stellar, even. If Business X makes plenty of money per year and is doing well, why can't they throw even the most basic insurance at their people? I can call them a BAD business. I can have a POOR opinion of them. I don't happen to think they should be legally imposed upon to provide anything.
But some people don't HAVE choices. They can't up and walk away from their low-paying dead-end job because living day to day is living beyond their means ... without any help from cellphones or handbags. Saying they do is putting horse blinders on, pinching your nose, and pretending that everybody in this country has options. What do you do when you're already eating rice and ketchup, drinking reconstituted instant dry milk, and can't get government aid because you own a 15-year-old car that happens to be worth more than $2000? Yes, there are parts of this country where it happens. What happens to those people when they break a bone? Get into an accident? Their credit is forever ruined and they get to throw their money into rent for the rest of their lives.

**WildChild** · 11-03-2009, 10:41 PM

Mortgages here can be huge, a $200 a month payment is unheard of where I live, you couldn't buy a garage for that, let alone a house. More like $2000 a month for an average home. Then there are property taxes, home insurance, utilities, water($100 a month) and sewage, trash removal, if you have a home owner association you may pay from $50 to $300 a month for that - owning a home is expensive.

Renting; security deposit to move in, monthly rent, utilities, renters insurance for your possessions. Then add in phone, cable or satilite (realistically in the western states there are a lot of places that have no reception without satilite) internet, car insurance (basic liability on two older cars, one teen driver, I pay about $120 a month). I get only local channels on TV and wouldn't have that except that bundled with the internet it is $4 a month. As an over 50 adult in good health with no medical problems,for the cheapest I found (and listed as one of the worst plans by a consumer reporting group) I could get major medical coverage (not office visits or preventative care) with a pretty hefty deductable for $205 a month. For my kids, who are in excellent health, I'd be looking at min of $180 month - that allows 3 office visits a year with a $50 copay. Looking at these plans the deductables are high enough that unless one of us became deathly ill, we would never even come close to meeting it and I would be bankrupt before I could pay it.

When my ex got sick while unemployed and uninsured (he was employed and had excellent coverage while being treated for cancer) he ended up in the hospital over night for some tests - that ran over $60,000 dollars for about 12 hours. We contested because several of the tests they ran were absolutely absurd. The only actual treatment he received was saline for dehydration and some antibiotics. This started as an "emergency room" visit and while we did get some of the charges for the tests removed, we paid every dime of the rest.

In the course of his cancer treatment, multiple surgeries and screw ups and such, he had one blood thinner (lovenox) that cost $9000 a month. The chemo - 5 days a week, about 6 hours a day, ran $5000 a day, he had 4 weeks of that. I can't imagine what the surgery to remove his tumor cost; 8 hours, two surgeons (one was a cardiac specialist) then an infection, several days in ICU, a deep vein thrombosis due to a botched attempt to put an IV in a vein in the groin/thigh area. It's staggering to even consider.

**ItsASecret** · 11-03-2009, 11:11 PM

I cannot even begin to imagine having to pay several thousand dollars because of an accident that lead to a broken arm for example. Here in Canada I believe the common payment for health care is $50-70 (do not quote me on this) a month regardless if you are paying for a single person or a family. I can walk into the emergency room right now, granted I would be waiting for 6 hours, but I can get in get treated and sent home with no major insurance questions and no bill. I can have a $250,000 surgery in 2-3 months if need be and not pay a dime, get all the scans and referrals I want...granted the time factor again...but not have a cent taken out of my wallet. I pay $1 for a refill on one of my prescriptions...I have heard of people needing to pay $50-100+ for a single refill in the states. It just boggles my mind how the United States of America, "the greatest country in the world" can have such a poor health care system.

**WildChild** · 11-03-2009, 11:30 PM

Ed,

What you call a doctor is an allopath. In general they deal with the body as separate parts, as if any of it could function without the rest. For the most part they treat symptoms with drugs or surgery. So instead of saying, "well, you've abused your body for years and you need to change your diet, start exersizing and learn to meditate" they say "take these 5 different drugs". They rely heavily on tests.

A naturopath, treats the body as interdepent, a whole. First visit they will probably spent as much as an hour talking with you. What is going on in your life, your history, relationships, work and your entire body. They will discuss your diet and lifestyle. They do not see you as a collection of isolated parts and events. However, you have to be able to communicate fully what has been and is going on and be ready to be a partner in healing. You have to be able to take some responsiblity and handle some truth. They may use herbs and other botanicals, homeopathic treatment, diet and life style changes. If the situation warrents they will request that you get certain tests or even refer to an allopath.

I haven't seen mine in several years as my health has been good but in the past she saved my life. What did she do? She talked to me for a few minutes, (I'd been seeing her for years) looked at me a bit, and asked, "what the H has been going on in your life? I've never seen a healthy person decline so fast" After a few more minutes of talking, she said, "I've never said this to anyone, but either find a really good marriage counselor or get a divorce, if you don't you'll be dead in 5 years, probably less." I brust into tears because I knew she was right, my marriage to my children's father was destroying me. Within weeks I was separated, and my health dramatically improved. An Allopath probably would have given me a cocktail of allergy medicine a bunch of tests and a referral to a psychatrist for anti depressants (a doctor had already suggested those) Instead I took no drugs and had a complete "cure".

I've had allopaths give me all kids of drugs that did nothing for the problem but created all sorts of side effects. Then a naturopath has dealt with it with a few simple diet changes and some herbs. My nephew (in elementry school) was diagnosed ADD, they wanted to put him on Ritalin. My sister's homeopath/naturopath did one treatment, took him off dairy and he never took any drugs and in a couple of months was recommended for the honors program - he's in college now, body builder, good student, no drugs, no ADD.

There are few miracles, your health didn't get where it is overnight, you can reclaim it. What you need is rational guidance to health with the understanding that your body is a whole, not parts. Look at it this way, if it won't hurt and it might help, why not give it a try? To me that's the first place allopathic medicine goes wrong, too much of what they do doesn't really help and it hurts you, and costs a fortune on top of it. It has it's place but in limited doses.

**OhThereYouAre** · 11-04-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little

What I stated was 100% true: if you don't pre-pay, you can't get an office visit.

They'll usually only make you prepay if you've skipped out on a bill previously, or have a spotty payment history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little

An office visit is cheaper than an emergency room visit.
I know emergencies can't be turned away. And I know for a fact that emergency room visits can cost (upwards of) $6000. How do I know? I added up my boyfriend's bills.

Little - a rather large part of that enormous charge is being levied to subsidize the people who don't pay their bills. People who can pay are overcharged because the hospital knows that there is a good portion of folks who won't. More people that don't pay, higher the charge per service is going to be. Simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little

Workplaces have social responsibilities too. They get all the perks of being "individuals" under the law without any of the consequences. Even McDonald's has an insurance plan. My workplace has a very good benefits plan. Stellar, even. If Business X makes plenty of money per year and is doing well, why can't they throw even the most basic insurance at their people? I can call them a BAD business. I can have a POOR opinion of them. I don't happen to think they should be legally imposed upon to provide anything.

That's your opinion. I don't believe that anyone owes me *anything*. If people worried more about working for what they want, rather than expecting that it be handed to them, this country would be in a much better position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little

But some people don't HAVE choices. They can't up and walk away from their low-paying dead-end job because living day to day is living beyond their means ... without any help from cellphones or handbags. Saying they do is putting horse blinders on, pinching your nose, and pretending that everybody in this country has options. What do you do when you're already eating rice and ketchup, drinking reconstituted instant dry milk, and can't get government aid because you own a 15-year-old car that happens to be worth more than $2000?

I've been there. Through all the adversity- I crawled myself out of it. It can be done. It just takes hard work. My father came to this country 30 some odd years ago a poor villager with 40 rupees in his pocket. You'll never convince me that *anyone* can't make it.

11-03-2009, 04:17 PM	#21
Mr. ED VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Torrid Southwestern US Posts: 39	WC: Believe me or not, I have not heard of a naturopath. Is that a doctor like an O.D.? I am flat out "fed up" with doctors, obviously, if you read my lengthy post. They give you whatever they think they can make money on. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? __________________ Woman is fragrant, soft and alluring. A consciousness to man.

11-03-2009, 04:30 PM	#22
Mr. ED VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Torrid Southwestern US Posts: 39	C W: Thanks for your reply. I really don't know about income protection, and contents insurance but it seems I struck a nerve with that post. From reading the replies it seems to be synonymous that the "supposedly" richest country in the world has the most expensive health insurance but the results in practice could sometimes be compared to certain third world countries. My monthly health insurance premium is 4X my mortgage. It just went up $90.00 October 1st. Millions of people here are waiting in very long lines for an H1N1 flu shot but only children and pregnant women are able to get it. It's really funny because almost every commercial on TV is telling you to get vaccinated! My wife and I can't even get the seasonal flu injection. I'm a retired state employee and they're free for me and my spouse but they cancelled the program again this week because it's not available! __________________ Woman is fragrant, soft and alluring. A consciousness to man.

11-03-2009, 05:16 PM	#23
CHANDLERS WISH WH Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 9,968 Blog Entries: 7	I have to admit, I was gobsmacked and still am at most of what I am reading... I don't know if it's because Australia have "less people".. Even the un-employed receive at least $150 a week from our Government and then up to $50 a week for rent assistance, if children are involved, then there's some free child care, and allowances there as well.. I think my neighbour who has two children, receives something like $450 a week from the Government for being a "single parent" .. How much are your Mortgages? Our health insurance is like $90 a month here for basic cover for hospital and ambulance with a small excess, our Mortgages are around $350 a week for say $250k and $500 a week for $400k homes.. Which still makes it hard for people that have one job.... __________________ Do we not realise that in order to find a soul It doesn't happen over night if truth were to be told Like everything in life that's hard to achieve you must believe! Register! \| Rules/FAQ \| Contact Mod

11-03-2009, 06:00 PM	#24
Mr. ED VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Torrid Southwestern US Posts: 39	Well I guess it works in reverse in your country. My mortgage is only $200.00 a month because it's a relatively old house. I too was gobsmacked after reading your mortgage payments PER WEEK!!! But the health care for the two of us cost's $740.00 a month. But that does cover just about everything. If a person is on Medicare the office visits are included. Non Medicare members have a $20.00 per visit copay and a $30.00 per visit copay if your refereed to a specialist. Health care reform is supposed to change all that, but I'll believe it when I see it. There are many poor people here that are against change and the only reason I can come up with is that they just don't trust the government. And after the administration of the last 8 years I can't say that I blame them. __________________ Woman is fragrant, soft and alluring. A consciousness to man.

11-03-2009, 07:45 PM	#25
CHANDLERS WISH WH Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 9,968 Blog Entries: 7	Does sound - reversed doesn't it... But, also to me, that's ridiculously outrageous.... Where some would have to rent as they can't afford a Mortgage, 4 x's the amount to ensure safety can't be solved if not enough income coming through..... And it poses the answer as to why the Doctors need more referrals for income, assuming it's because not enough people can afford Health Insurance and therefore, don't attend Doctors... __________________ Do we not realise that in order to find a soul It doesn't happen over night if truth were to be told Like everything in life that's hard to achieve you must believe! Register! \| Rules/FAQ \| Contact Mod

11-03-2009, 08:05 PM	#26
Little WH Junior Administrator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: whjuniorad[at]hotmail[dot]com Posts: 1,559 Blog Entries: 4	What I stated was 100% true: if you don't pre-pay, you can't get an office visit. An office visit is cheaper than an emergency room visit. I know emergencies can't be turned away. And I know for a fact that emergency room visits can cost (upwards of) $6000. How do I know? I added up my boyfriend's bills. He's had 7-8 different places bill him ... a new one came in recently. The hospital had no way to tell him who would be billing him, so he can't contest any. Workplaces have social responsibilities too. They get all the perks of being "individuals" under the law without any of the consequences. Even McDonald's has an insurance plan. My workplace has a very good benefits plan. Stellar, even. If Business X makes plenty of money per year and is doing well, why can't they throw even the most basic insurance at their people? I can call them a BAD business. I can have a POOR opinion of them. I don't happen to think they should be legally imposed upon to provide anything. But some people don't HAVE choices. They can't up and walk away from their low-paying dead-end job because living day to day is living beyond their means ... without any help from cellphones or handbags. Saying they do is putting horse blinders on, pinching your nose, and pretending that everybody in this country has options. What do you do when you're already eating rice and ketchup, drinking reconstituted instant dry milk, and can't get government aid because you own a 15-year-old car that happens to be worth more than $2000? Yes, there are parts of this country where it happens. What happens to those people when they break a bone? Get into an accident? Their credit is forever ruined and they get to throw their money into rent for the rest of their lives. __________________ Register! \| Rules/FAQ \| Contact Admin

11-03-2009, 10:41 PM	#27
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,233 Blog Entries: 5	Mortgages here can be huge, a $200 a month payment is unheard of where I live, you couldn't buy a garage for that, let alone a house. More like $2000 a month for an average home. Then there are property taxes, home insurance, utilities, water($100 a month) and sewage, trash removal, if you have a home owner association you may pay from $50 to $300 a month for that - owning a home is expensive. Renting; security deposit to move in, monthly rent, utilities, renters insurance for your possessions. Then add in phone, cable or satilite (realistically in the western states there are a lot of places that have no reception without satilite) internet, car insurance (basic liability on two older cars, one teen driver, I pay about $120 a month). I get only local channels on TV and wouldn't have that except that bundled with the internet it is $4 a month. As an over 50 adult in good health with no medical problems,for the cheapest I found (and listed as one of the worst plans by a consumer reporting group) I could get major medical coverage (not office visits or preventative care) with a pretty hefty deductable for $205 a month. For my kids, who are in excellent health, I'd be looking at min of $180 month - that allows 3 office visits a year with a $50 copay. Looking at these plans the deductables are high enough that unless one of us became deathly ill, we would never even come close to meeting it and I would be bankrupt before I could pay it. When my ex got sick while unemployed and uninsured (he was employed and had excellent coverage while being treated for cancer) he ended up in the hospital over night for some tests - that ran over $60,000 dollars for about 12 hours. We contested because several of the tests they ran were absolutely absurd. The only actual treatment he received was saline for dehydration and some antibiotics. This started as an "emergency room" visit and while we did get some of the charges for the tests removed, we paid every dime of the rest. In the course of his cancer treatment, multiple surgeries and screw ups and such, he had one blood thinner (lovenox) that cost $9000 a month. The chemo - 5 days a week, about 6 hours a day, ran $5000 a day, he had 4 weeks of that. I can't imagine what the surgery to remove his tumor cost; 8 hours, two surgeons (one was a cardiac specialist) then an infection, several days in ICU, a deep vein thrombosis due to a botched attempt to put an IV in a vein in the groin/thigh area. It's staggering to even consider. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

11-03-2009, 11:11 PM	#28
ItsASecret Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 316	I cannot even begin to imagine having to pay several thousand dollars because of an accident that lead to a broken arm for example. Here in Canada I believe the common payment for health care is $50-70 (do not quote me on this) a month regardless if you are paying for a single person or a family. I can walk into the emergency room right now, granted I would be waiting for 6 hours, but I can get in get treated and sent home with no major insurance questions and no bill. I can have a $250,000 surgery in 2-3 months if need be and not pay a dime, get all the scans and referrals I want...granted the time factor again...but not have a cent taken out of my wallet. I pay $1 for a refill on one of my prescriptions...I have heard of people needing to pay $50-100+ for a single refill in the states. It just boggles my mind how the United States of America, "the greatest country in the world" can have such a poor health care system. __________________ There are those who believe that dictionaries should not merely reflect the times but also protect English from the mindless assaults of the trendy.

11-03-2009, 11:30 PM	#29
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,233 Blog Entries: 5	Ed, What you call a doctor is an allopath. In general they deal with the body as separate parts, as if any of it could function without the rest. For the most part they treat symptoms with drugs or surgery. So instead of saying, "well, you've abused your body for years and you need to change your diet, start exersizing and learn to meditate" they say "take these 5 different drugs". They rely heavily on tests. A naturopath, treats the body as interdepent, a whole. First visit they will probably spent as much as an hour talking with you. What is going on in your life, your history, relationships, work and your entire body. They will discuss your diet and lifestyle. They do not see you as a collection of isolated parts and events. However, you have to be able to communicate fully what has been and is going on and be ready to be a partner in healing. You have to be able to take some responsiblity and handle some truth. They may use herbs and other botanicals, homeopathic treatment, diet and life style changes. If the situation warrents they will request that you get certain tests or even refer to an allopath. I haven't seen mine in several years as my health has been good but in the past she saved my life. What did she do? She talked to me for a few minutes, (I'd been seeing her for years) looked at me a bit, and asked, "what the H has been going on in your life? I've never seen a healthy person decline so fast" After a few more minutes of talking, she said, "I've never said this to anyone, but either find a really good marriage counselor or get a divorce, if you don't you'll be dead in 5 years, probably less." I brust into tears because I knew she was right, my marriage to my children's father was destroying me. Within weeks I was separated, and my health dramatically improved. An Allopath probably would have given me a cocktail of allergy medicine a bunch of tests and a referral to a psychatrist for anti depressants (a doctor had already suggested those) Instead I took no drugs and had a complete "cure". I've had allopaths give me all kids of drugs that did nothing for the problem but created all sorts of side effects. Then a naturopath has dealt with it with a few simple diet changes and some herbs. My nephew (in elementry school) was diagnosed ADD, they wanted to put him on Ritalin. My sister's homeopath/naturopath did one treatment, took him off dairy and he never took any drugs and in a couple of months was recommended for the honors program - he's in college now, body builder, good student, no drugs, no ADD. There are few miracles, your health didn't get where it is overnight, you can reclaim it. What you need is rational guidance to health with the understanding that your body is a whole, not parts. Look at it this way, if it won't hurt and it might help, why not give it a try? To me that's the first place allopathic medicine goes wrong, too much of what they do doesn't really help and it hurts you, and costs a fortune on top of it. It has it's place but in limited doses. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

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