Health Insurance/ Univeral Health Care

**BasketCase** · 01-31-2011 10:00 AM

I live in the U.S, here we rely on health insurance to pay our medical bills. Were told by the media that country's with Universal health care (canada, uk, etc) have a very hard time being treated and usually end up dying on waiting lists and things, I really don't believe this is true. I live in a country where a heart transplant can run up to 300,000 and a simple trip to the emergency room can run you 20,000. Can anyone from these country's tell me about what a trip to the doctor is like. Would you really rather pay these prices than deal with the medical system that you have? (bear in mind your going to wait 30m to an hour in a doctors office here and even longer in an emergency room)

**Texinator** · 01-31-2011 11:01 AM

It gets confusing because these discussions typically do make much distinction between the various kinds of "universal health care" that exist. The system proposed here in the States is universal mostly in the sense that everyone will be required to have health insurance. But that's not how it works in many other countries. Some are universal because the government provides everyone with a minimum amount of health insurance, though people are still able to purchase supplemental insurance from private companies, while others are universal because the government is the only source for health care funding. Then there are differences between government administered health care and government funded health care. Sometimes the government provides only the money and people are free to choose their doctors, and sometimes the government provides the health care by employing the doctors, nurses, specialists, and so forth, and telling you which ones you have to choose.

We even have some examples right here:

Like I said, the proposed system is universal for the average person because they will be required to purchase health insurance. Think of car insurance, where you are also required to have insurance, though the big difference there is that the state governments make that a requirement, whereas the proposed universal insurance system will be mandated by the federal government, which will no doubt make for interesting court cases.

Some people are eligible for programs like Medicare and Medicaid, which are universal because the government provides those people with the money, but they are still free to choose between the doctors that accept these programs, and the doctors do not work for the government.

Finally, there is military medicine, which is universal in that it is both government funded and government administered. People in the armed forces receive health insurance from the government, and the doctors they see are not in private practice but work for the government, because they are of course also in the military.

**jns** · 01-31-2011 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tex

Like I said, the proposed system is universal for the average person because they will be required to purchase health insurance. Think of car insurance, where you are also required to have insurance, though the big difference there is that the state governments make that a requirement, whereas the proposed universal insurance system will be mandated by the federal government, which will no doubt make for interesting court cases.

The difference is that driving a car on public roads is a privilege and as such is not a requirement for simply existing. The requiring of individuals to buy health insurance to simply exist can criminalize existence without proper paying into the system. This is all because the government believes it has to use its tax revenues to cover those who do not cover themselves. Be foolish in your choices, sure, your Uncle Sam will cover any problems arising from those choices.

**tesoro** · 01-31-2011 01:43 PM

Living in Canada, I can say that I feel very fortunate to have access to an excellent, universal health care system.

I am able to have yearly physical exams, be referred to specialists for any problem that I have and I can also choose or switch doctors if I am not satisfied with the service. Also, when I was very ill years ago, I was able to go to another doctor for a second opinion and have surgery without losing my home.

I personally believe that health care is a human right. This doesn't mean that I think people should abuse the system by doing careless things or poisoning themselves but hey, isn't that happening in different ways anyway?

For example, smoking is the leading cause if lung cancer yet many people still smoke and are aware of the risks. Does that mean these people should not be covered by health care? I don't think they should get life insurance but I think they are entitled to health care. It all comes down to human dignity. How we value different kinds of people.

To provide some clarity though, our health care system is free in the sense we don't pay out of our pockets per each visit to the doctor or hospital however, in Canada we do pay a higher tax rate to be able to cover our health care system.

I don't like paying high taxes but if it means that people who are less fortunate, addicted to drugs or in severe accidents can be treated regardless of their income level, I think it's worth it. Just because it's available, doesn't mean that most people want to go to the hospital and be treated...people I know will do anything they can to prevent getting sick or having to go for surgery.

**ItsASecret** · 01-31-2011 02:13 PM

Can anyone from these country's tell me about what a trip to the doctor is like.

Canadian here with a genetic medical condition that requires me to visit the doctor at the very least once a year. A trip to my Endocrinologist goes like this: 1) Pick up the phone and call the office of my endocrinologist. No waiting in line for the staff to pick up. 2) Earliest booking time is usually a month and a half from whenever I call, the specialists are always like that because there are relatively so few around. 3) Actual visit, wait for about 10 minutes in waiting room. Maybe 10-15 in the actual exam room for the doctor after the scheduled appointment depending on how much paper work she has to file from the previous patient. 4) Stay there with as many questions as I want. 5) Usually leave with another lab request down at the blood collection center, boo. 6) Blood lab wait time is maybe 5 minutes tops once I hand them the form. No billing for anything-except if you do not cancel within 24 hrs of the appointment if you cannot make it then it is around a $50 fee.

GP is different, I can usually get in within the week for her. She requires an appointment for a prescription, endocrinologist does not unless something is wrong in the labs. Endocrinologist will also allow any of her other docs in the department to write me a prescription incase she is off on vacation, not sure if all doctors do that all that often. No billing for anything with the GP visit-except if you do not cancel within 24 hrs of the appointment if you cannot make it then it is around a $30 fee.

Medicenter-its a walk in clinic. I only go there for stupid things like strep throat which will not go away without antibiotics. Average wait time, 2-4 hours depending on how many "sick" people are there. Half are sniffling and coughing in the dead of winter, aka they have the common cold, so I have to wait for all of them to be cleared by the docs. Total waste of time to be there so I avoid it unless I have no choice like a strep infection. That visit lasts maybe 5 minutes in total. If I have something quick like strep they nod their heads and write the prescription just like I want them to. If you go in there hoping to get ahead of the line because your hip hurts you will be asked to go to the ER. If you want a scan you will be told to go to the ER. Medicenters are not worth it unless you have something quick to deal with. No billing for anything, no calling in for insurance approval needed to get anything done.

ER visits. 4-8+ hours. Again half the people in there are complaining of the common cold, maybe a sore hip from shoveling the snow. The other half are mangled and need to see a doctor. I have only gone there a handful of times for my brother who broke his arm once while BMXing, the other times fractured bones from again BMX. You get quick exams like X-rays and MRIs if needed and can skip the line if you really need that stuff. ER docs are in short supply so you will not get many answers from them if people are going in for a consult type meeting. ERs are stupid as well if you go for something less serious. No billing, no approval from insurance company needed to step foot in the place.

Would you really rather pay these prices than deal with the medical system that you have?

Not a chance. I am a student and therefore poor. My insurance costs me 20-30ish a month, none of this bs $300-1000+ a month garbage. The prescriptions themselves cost more than my insurance, I will gladly pay that price. I am not going to fork over 20 grand for a broken arm just so that I can 'stick it to the government for trying to force me to pay for insurance'. No. I am going to pay for my insurance and get my medical care whenever I want. The real problem is the lack of doctors, the more people that are sick the more staff that are needed. They barely increase the numbers of those staff leading to the issues with ERs for example.

**WildChild** · 01-31-2011 02:42 PM

I have no health coverage of any kind. My work does not offer any coverage, they are a very small company. I'm over 50, in good general health, don't smoke, am not overweight and cannot even come close to affording the most basic private coverage. I do not qualify government health care. I'm one of those people who has fallen through the cracks. I visit the health fair yearly and pay for some basic blood work and get a breast exam or pap smear every few years other than thay I try to eat healthy and get some exersize, manage my stress levels.

Right now I have what I think is plantar facitis, so I looked it up and am treating it myself. One knee has started acting up, doesn't want to support my weight sometimes, I'm trying to strengthen the muscles around it, hoping that will help. Unless I get badly injured or deathly ill, I am my own health care provider. Otherwise too bad for me.

Its my own fault for: not being rich, not working for a big company or for being born, take your pick.

**jns** · 01-31-2011 04:58 PM

In my first job out of college with a degree in Engineering and student loans to repay, I was paid $4.00 an hour working as a technician for the first year, with minimum wage being $3.35 an hour. The next 2 years I was paid $5.00 an hour. I did have medical coverage with a 20% copay and 80% coverage for usual and customary costs. It was a small company, consisting of a dozen people or less. Needless to say, I could not afford a house and could only afford low end renting, but I did have medical coverage. After coming back from medical disability, I was laid off.

I then had 4 months of unemployment at $400 a month, the equivalent of $2.30 an hour and no medical coverage. For that I had to spend a reasonable amount of time searching for a job. I was not going let myself be in the situation I was before, so I did not pick up the barely above minimum wage jobs at the Unemployment Development Department of California, which I could have. Instead I went to job fairs and had interviews at larger employers. That didn't work to well, but I took placement tests for other jobs and finally used a placement firm to get a reasonable job as a technical writer and trainer.

That job paid $10.00 an hour and also had medical coverage, but with a HMO. I kept that job until I got my present job 17 months later due to one of the placement tests.

My current job pays quite well as a technician and now an Engineer. It also has good medical coverage.

Medical coverage was always one of the requirements for me to take a job. I moved more than 2000 mile away from everyone I knew to search for a job, going through several before I found a keeper. There is talk about settling in a relationship. Don't settle on a job that doesn't meet minimum requirements. Continue looking. Unions are a good thing in that medical coverage is one of the things they usually have in their contracts for their members.

I understand people at the bottom end have it rough. They are competing for jobs with, in some cases, people who do not have the legal right to work in the USA and are willing to forgo medical insurance since they can get it free at the emergency room. They are competing against those who are willing to work without medical insurance being offered. They are willing to work for companies where the principals have medical coverage, but don't offer it to their employees because they are listed as independent contractors. What I don't understand is why so many are dead set against unions, which can get them reasonable medical coverage.

**Seeker_Advice** · 01-31-2011 05:10 PM

Let us all keep all of this in perspective.... Canada's entire population as a nation is about ten percent of the population of the U.S. If you think what works in Canada is going to work here, you're sadly mistaken.

We also have some of the most "generous" immigration laws in the world and still have 13 million + illiegals in this country, who are producing children, who are then given the same rights/benefits as other children of legal U.S. citizens.

Ask yourself, what is the largest business in border towns all along the border with Mexico? Rental mail boxes. Why? Because citizens of Mexico come across the border, qualify legally or otherwise for our very generous government programs, then return to Mexico, only to visit their mail box once a week to pick up a check from the U.S. government that is paid for by your tax dollars. The hospitals and other medical care facilities in states like Arizona, New Mexico and California are over run with illegals....that has in part (a big part) contributed to the demise of those states financailly.

We can't have it both ways.

Show me one country in the entire world, the size of the U.S. where socialized medicine works.....there isn't any. Socialized medicine has been a huge contributor in the demise of England...er...Great Britain, Greece, France and Sweden. ALL of whom are but a mere fraction in size compared to the U.S.

I agree that we have our share of problems within the Healthcare industry within the U.S. and changes need to be made, but turning it over the federal government is NOT the answer. Look at the 'wonderful' job they have done with Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security.

**ItsASecret** · 01-31-2011 05:34 PM

Let us all keep all of this in perspective.... Canada's entire population as a nation is about ten percent of the population of the U.S. If you think what works in Canada is going to work here, you're sadly mistaken.

That is right, population geography difference. Don't forget about the rest of the countries that have the same health care. I am not sure if all the places that have universal health care have a total population that surpasses that of the States...but I would figure a general representation of how it works as a whole in total population should give a good idea of how it could work as a whole in a place like the states. Keeping in mind current states of things I suppose, as history is well...history. That said as a person that experiences the 'horrors' of universal health care I happen to like it very much. I still have money in my pocket after all my doctor visits, prescriptions, and general life associated taxes.

As a side note, what in the world type of health care do places like China and Japan have? There are billions of people there but I honestly have never heard of what they have for health care, if they have any at all I suppose. I have no idea.

**jns** · 01-31-2011 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by ItsASecret

As a side note, what in the world type of health care do places like China and Japan have? There are billions of people there but I honestly have never heard of what they have for health care, if they have any at all I suppose. I have no idea.

Interesting question about Japan, Wiki actually has an article on it. Search for [health care system in Japan].