Being Submissive??

**ccraig42** · 05-24-2011 12:03 PM

This morning, I got into a heated debate with a few people. What fueled this debate was a man claiming it was God's will for women to be submissive to their husbands. He said we should be out here working big money jobs and breaking our backs trying to provide for ourselves and complement our significant other's income. He also believes that since women were conceived from man (their rib) that man are superior to us and we should be submissive and obey their commands. What in the heck? I mean I know he gets this all from the bible, and though I don't believe in the bible, I would think this is stupid either way. If I lived my life by the book, this would be something I overlooked simply because things have changed a lot since the biblical days.

Women have to be independent these days! Why should we throw all our faith into a man to control our households when we know that women play an equally important role! Then what about the single mothers and fathers? They must do for themselves also. So this playing roles because the bible told me so business sounds faulty to me. Things have changed entirely too much for this to still be valid.

How do you all feel on this topic?

**pretzel** · 05-24-2011 12:19 PM

People take the meaning of the Bible to fit what they wish. Some take if literally word for word (similar to the strict Constructionists of the Constitution) while other take the meaning of lessons as guides for how to treat and interact with people.

I lean to the later in that the underlying moralality is more important than the literal word. There has to be a fluidity of the meaning in order for it to be relevant to the way societies have evolved and with the understanding that there are many different religions and philosophies.

If you look at the underlying meanings within the writings of many of the great religions, I think you'd see a great many similarities in the belief systems. When you take literal meanings, you end up with wars.

**ccraig42** · 05-24-2011 12:29 PM

That's how I am. The bible is a huge metaphor to me..it completely blew my mind how strongly he believed that though. He stated that not being submissive is a sin and I'm just like...blown away because I'm too strong minded to let someone control me and my life.

**KMonte85** · 05-24-2011 12:31 PM

Unfortunately there are many men and women in this world who believe in the submission of women to men. I am not one of them.

I would rather stand with my man, equally. I don't think you can have a fulfilling relationship, marriage, heck even a decent conversation, if you hold each other to different levels in such a way as is explained literally in the Bible. How can you respect your spouse if they treat you like a subordinate? How would you feel about a spouse whose sole purpose in life was to agree with your wishes, never having a unique thought, a mind of their own?

Either of those options sound atrocious to me. Give me equality. Give me an even playing field. Give me a partner in life who will walk with me, challenge me, love me, debate with me, appreciate me for who I am as I appreciate them for who they are.

**ccraig42** · 05-24-2011 12:46 PM

Monte I couldn't agree more.

**WildChild** · 05-24-2011 01:23 PM

Oh Dear, I could write a book. It would be an insult to the Neanderthals, who apparently were pretty egalitarian to call that guy one. The bible isn't a metaphor, it is the accumulated assortment of stuff from hundreds of sources, cobbled together to make a confusing and contradictory mishmash. It is based on Dominator model thinking that was brutally introduced and enforced upon the world by violent, nomadic, male skygod worshiping people off the steepes. I don't know that anyone has adequately explained where they came up with a belief system so skewed and violent.

I would be happy to recommend some books that explain some of the history and the herstory of this world disaster which we are still suffering from.

To see how valid this thinking is, you have only to look at the mess we are in today. Flat out things work best when women and men work together in balance. My last year's book of the year (I haven't got one for this year yet) would be a good place for you to start. "Women Lead The Way Your Guide to Stepping Up to Leadership and Changing the World" by Linda Tarr-Whelan

**WildChild** · 05-24-2011 01:24 PM

Oh Dear, I could write a book. It would be an insult to the Neanderthals, who apparently were pretty egalitarian to call that guy one. The bible isn't a metaphor, it is the accumulated assortment of stuff from hundreds of sources, cobbled together to make a confusing and contradictory mishmash. It is based on Dominator model thinking that was brutally introduced and enforced upon the world by violent, nomadic, male skygod worshiping people off the steepes. I don't know that anyone has adequately explained where they came up with a belief system so skewed and violent.

I would be happy to recommend some books that explain some of the history and the herstory of this world disaster which we are still suffering from.

To see how valid this thinking is, you have only to look at the mess we are in today. Flat out things work best when women and men work together in balance. My last year's book of the year (I haven't got one for this year yet) would be a good place for you to start. "Women Lead The Way Your Guide to Stepping Up to Leadership and Changing the World" by Linda Tarr-Whelan

**Texinator** · 05-24-2011 01:51 PM

Sometimes I like to ponder about how the world might be today if society had been female-dominated since ancient times and how things might be different now if it had always been equal between men and women.

**WildChild** · 05-24-2011 02:22 PM

Personally I don't think that trading the domination of one gender for the domination of the other would be a good idea. What we need is partnership. Being one gender or the other is no guarantee of any particular level of intelligence, caring, ability or perception. As people and as a world society, we need to have every individual free to develop their full positive potential and to utilize their aptitudes and abilities to the fullest.

**ccraig42** · 05-24-2011 02:27 PM

WC I'd love to read some of those books! So recommendations are accepted graciously.

If we look at this in the most basic setting of man woman, a relationship, I prefer to be equal. I love to have a man that steps up to the plate and is bringing the same to the table as I am. Of course I don't mean the same type of hobbies and all that. But if I'm willing to learn, I'd hope he's willing to teach and vice versa. I feel as though the strongest relationships contain a lot of give and take, and helping to build each other stronger and better than the previous day. So all this nonsense about one gender overruling the other is just that: nonsense.

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