Bad guy?? Good guy??

**Little** · 01-13-2012 10:02 AM

Coercion is just as effective as physical force in making someone do something - which is why the law views it as such. It doesn't take a knife to a throat to turn sex into rape.

As far as in whose hands the responsibility of a sex act lies, I assume it would be with the instigator, whether that person is male or female. The FBI recently changed its definition of rape to include the possibility of male victims, and it's about time.

I'm disappointed in the views of some in this thread concerning what is not rape, on a personal level as a rape survivor. As many of these hypothetical situations being dismissed as NOT rape and as irresponsibility on the part of the victim hit close to home, any further discussion on my part would merely be justifying my own situation, which I refuse to do. While I'm glad that many women are spared the first-hand experience of rape, it is difficult to understand from the outside, especially the intense shaming that society puts survivors through. I stand with JNS - we will continue to disagree on this issue.

**lizzardb63** · 01-13-2012 10:15 AM

I respect that. Sometimes people just don't agree and that happens. This is my last post in this discussion.

**rosekitten** · 01-13-2012 02:15 PM

My whole thing is thus- if two people are intoxicated (therefor, NEITHER is able to give legal consent as mentioned previously), why does it automatically have to be the mans fault? Sometimes, when you first start talking to someone, you don't want things to go further. She spent the whole night talking with him and hanging out around him, while they both proceeded to get more and more intoxicated. I just can't vilify him for having thought (again, in an intoxicated state unable to give his own legal consent, technically) that maybe she had changed her mind.

My friends and I have *always* been proactive when it came to drinking. Before we would go out, we would have our DD (aka: babysitter) know where we stood for the night (if we wanted to get laid, just hang out, etc). Even now when I go out, I know my limits, and know when I need to stop or leave a situation (that took lots of time to figure out). At least in my circles, friends encourage friends to drink at a party, it's just what we do. If someone doesn't want to drink (or, drink much), they stop when they need to, or turn down alcohol when it's presented to them (something the OP will have to work on doing, it seems). I think that they both had a part to play in this situation, and I really just can't look down on him that much for what happened.

**Random_Kitty** · 01-13-2012 02:53 PM

Hopefully you can learn from this experience. It is unfair to expect someone else to be responsible for how much you choose to drink, your drug taking, and your actions - especially someone you do not know well.

That does not excuse someone pressuring you to drink, take drugs, and getting physically involved with them.

It is perfectly normal for someone to change their mind.
It is also normal to make silly decisions and this is more likely after drinking, taking drugs, or simply when you feel tired and relaxed.
It is also normal for a guy to think he has changed your mind and that you have fallen for his charms after and evening in his company. Having an ego is not crime.