Barbmom4

This is long- I am sorry- it has been inside a LONG TIME!
This is my first day as a member, but this subject is way over due for me to deal with. I am 44 and have a 25 year old daughter, a 20 year old son and a 12 year old daughter. I was very young when I had my first and not very equipped to be a mother. My first husband and I divorced early and he went on to pursue his career as an alcoholic with his mother enabling him to achieve his goals. I had no support- financially, emotionally, physically when my older 2 were little. I worked two jobs, went to school and did all I could to create a better future for us. Guess what? I got tired, I dealt with depression. I even yelled at them. I struggled to take care of my kids and I did lean on my eldest to help me- whether right or wrong-I did. She got herself ready for school in the ams- I would often work 12-15 hours a day. I didn't have a lot of patience and did not play with her a lot. I did try to regularly take them to parks, special family nights together and a friend of mine (who was also a single mom) would get together with all of our children on a monthly basis to work on crafts or an occasional night out. I DID NOT PHYSICALLY ABUSE them- but I admit I was not Mrs. Cleaver waiting at home with the world revolving around them. I wanted to but life did not give me this opportunity. I think this contributed to the near paralyzing depression I dealt with for years. The kids would go to their dads when he felt like it, and not even call or show up when he didn't. He raped a woman in front of them and beat other girlfriends in front of them- a fact that I did not know until the last year or so.
I remarried when my eldest was 11. I started drinking about that time with my husband and we quit drinking about 2 years later- and neither of us have touched a drop since.
We had our 12 year old together and tried to build a family. We had family night weekly. We went camping. We had the kids in activities, paid for them, attended them and took pride in them. We went out to eat as a family. All of the kids had braces, proms, and dances. They were all on honor roll. My eldest was a cheerleader, received music and choral awards for HIgh School Achievement. I held them when they cried when their dad would blow them off or treat them badly. Now that they are grown (the older two), when they call and need me my life is on hold.
My eldest decided she did not want to go to college and got together with a real abusive man and had his child. I struggled with the guilt that it was all my fault. I dealt with it and came to terms that although I made mistakes it was her life and her choices. My hubby and I decided to start creating a nicer environment for my 12 year old. We bought a smaller dining room set on a Monday. The eldest moved back in with her little one a week later. We helped her get away from her abuser-paid for her lawyer, her bankruptcy. Moved her out at a literal last minute notice. We put us on the back burner to help her- this is family- this is what you do -right?
When she stayed with us it was an adjustment. She would come home from work and relax and leave her daughter, dinner and clean up to me. She did not contribute.
I was in counseling and gave her my counselors name to help her.
Over a period of time I started to have health problems. I tried to keep up with the house and be Mrs. Cleaver, but over the year it started to take its toll. Come to find out I had endometriosis, and my ovaries had stopped working and had attached to my intestines.This caused me to be in a lot of pain. This caused me to have servere fatigue, insomnia and depression.We did not know this at the time. I spent a lot of time at home. My daughter did not stick around to even so much as check in on me. The counselor told me that it was too painful when I laid in my room "feeling sorry for myself" like I did when she was little and she was told to not be around me when I am like that.
Hubby and I were planning on finally doing something for us last spring. We wanted to buy a new living room set. We started looking on Friday and Sunday the eldest got engaged. She wanted to get married right away- no living room set.
When it came time to do the wedding fun I was given last minute orders of when to be there to help make invitations, lunches and showers. The closer to the wedding the more she started to complain about her rotten childhood- always in front of people you know- like future mother in law or the minister. Since she has married I have been treated to her complaining about what a failure I was as a mother- every time I see her.
I had a total hysterectomy on 12/29.She is expecting her 2nd child. I took her to the er the other night because she was having a panic attack. I sat in uncomfortable chairs and was in pain for 4 1/2 hours while we waited to be seen. There was nothing wrong with her. The last hour I heard from her about how terrible I was when she was little.
I have told her I am sorry.
I feel like I have made ammends to the best of my ability. I can not change the past and really did not even have a lot of control over the circumstances when they occurred.
I love her and want a good relationship, but I am to the point of giving up!
How long do I have to pay penance?
Yes,she is entitled to her feelings, but is it ok to beat me with them?
I will NOT return to that counselor. The entire time I was sick she told me it was in my head.
I need support from anyone with a kind word.
Thanks for reading!

Little

Go to a different counselor. They're not all the same, and the first one should be punished for telling you "it's all in your head." That's a very misleading statement.
As the child of a FAR from perfect mother, I know how it feels on the other side. It's awful, and I don't feel like I can ever forgive my mother for what she did ... or that I should, for that matter. My mother spent 20 years abusing and expects forgiveness like instant gratification.
Seems to me that you've shown your children a turn-around. You've supported them financially and emotionally at least. Maybe group counseling is in order. Your oldest daughter dealt with unfair responsibilities in her childhood; she has a right to say you were terrible if you were. If it's the truth. But she needs to work out those feelings or else they can destroy her. Once we become adults, we need to take responsibility for our actions and feelings (as you seem to have done recently, and as she NEEDS to do.)
I can't go on blaming my mother for my personality flaws. It's counter-productive. Your daughter needs to work through her issues, by herself or with help, and it may help to talk it out together with a "mediator" of sorts. Someone on the outside, with nothing to gain from taking one side or the other. Find a GOOD counselor or religious figure trained in family mediation.
Good luck.

Barbmom4

I did make amends- I have been apologizing for 12 years now and have changed behavior for over 12 years now. When is it enough to deserve forgivness?
Yes-it is okay for everyone to have their feelings-
~is it okay to use these feelings to beat the other person up with over and over? Doesn't that become abuse of it's own at some point?
Is it possible to move on and have a good relationship with my daughter or is the only way I can have a relationship is if we review my inadequacies everytime we are together? I certainly do not do that to my children or my parents.
I have now been on both sides of this. My father was abusive and a womanizer. My mother abandoned me after I was raped by her boyfriend. I was determined to do better than they did, and by those standards-however low- I have.
Did I forgive them? Yep. Had to.
Why? Because it made MY LIFE miserable not to. They did the best they could but they were cursed with humaness just like everyone else I have ever met.
The reason for my post is summed up here and only here:
I will repeat. I want a good relationship with my daughter and I love her dearly.
I CAN NOT continue to be punished for a past that I can not change.
I have tried to get my daughter to do counseling with me and she has refused because she was too angry. I think it has more to do with choice. Forgiveness is a choice. Not forgiving is a choice. When you forgive you have to give up the idea that you can use guilt to control the other person to make them do what they want. I am realizing as I read the above post and am responding to it that this is the bottom line here. I can not make her forgive me-I can not Love her through it- if I could I would have by now. She gets a lot of payoff for not forgiving me- I drop everything everytime and it always ends the same- that I did not do enough.
Thank you for helping me process that!

Little

You shouldn't have to take her beating up on you. If she wants to go on not forgiving you, sure, let her. But also let her out of your life. She can go on blaming you for THAT, then, if your actions are her enabler.
Sometimes the best choice is to let a relationship go. I'm not a mother, so maybe I just don't get the perspective.
Your daughter has a right to be angry. She has a right to air her grievances to you, but in a civil manner. You have a right to be upset by her inability to be civil. I hope that you get resolution in this.

withered_rose

i certainly agree with little, I myself have had a FAR from perfect mother as well, and I know what its like to be on the other end but you have certainly done everything that you can to try to make amends with your daughter but it sounds like she is being a brat about it all, and that's not fair to you at all. It sounds like she still has a lot of growing up to do, but it has nothing to do with you. She has made her choices to have an abusive relationship to get married and things like that its all her. As for trying to have a good relationship with your daughter its possible but she has to give up on blaming you for everything that has happened. Things have been out of your control and yes you also had some control over what had happened, but you have tried to make amends. I think that your daughter should go see a counselor and maybe you two can work things out.

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Before you criticise someone walk a mile in their shoes and then that way if they get angry they will be a mile away and barefoot

Barbmom4

Wow. I am so glad I wrote in!
I have had such healing through this and revelations!
I think I have forgiven me, which is so freeing. I think I have been allowing myself to fall into this from my guilt. But I did do better. I did all that I could to make it right. It is not my problem anymore. Now that I am free she can have the opportunity to deal with her feelings. I can get out of the way as the punching bag and who knows? Maybe she will move beyond to chose forgiveness herself or get counseling to help her to get there. I certainly have proved that I can't! I thank you ladies so very much!

Kung Fu Kitty

wow..thats horrible.my childhood was less than perfect,but i think i have a good relationship with my parents despite what has happened in the past.some people will continue to blame their problems on anyone/everyone/everything besides themselves. your daughter is a grown woman and can make her own choices AND live the concequences of the choices she makes.
you arent to blame for her screwups. seems to me you did the best you could with what you were given,dont beat yourself up over it.i say focus on yourself and what makes YOU happy..being a single parent is easy,but you did it.

Hopeless Dork

I think you have every right to feel beaten down by the way your daughter is behaving. She will come around, she is obviously still hurting and I think the best thing to do is let her be and try your best not to take it to heart when she says these things. She feel she has earned the right to tell you how she feels, when she finishes and empties her soul of all the burden she perceives she will stop.

I don't think there is a way to tell her to stop without it coming off as telling her she isn't allowed to feel the way she feels. She is wrong. She is using her past to control and manipulate you into giving her what she wants. At least you are aware of it, and don't have to let it happen. You can listen to her rant, and hug her when she needs hugged but you don't have to cater to her every whim as an act of penance. In family and love, that is not required.

You made mistakes, who hasn't. There is nothing you did or didn't do that was unforgivable by any means. You did the best you could with what life dealt you. Try to find the peace in that. She will find her peace in that too, eventually.

Barbmom4

Since I entered the topic I have been in the process of forgiving myself. I have distanced myself from my daughter-not alienating her by any means but by not being "There" as often as I was. We had lunch and dinner together on Valentines day- and it was nice- but I have not spent any alone time with her since. Yes, it is tricky to talk to her about all of this without it coming off that she is not entitled to her feelings-which she certainly is. I am thinking about these lines, let me know what you think:
"I am sorry- so sorry for the mistakes I made when you were younger. I made a lot of bad choices that I wish I hadn't. You did not deserve any ill treatment you received or any bad memories that you have. If I could I would go back in time and change so many things. But I can not. The only way that I know to truly make amends is to change my behavior- which I think I have. I want a good relationship with you- I love you so much. I understand you have feelings about the past that you need to deal with and I want you to so you can move on with your life. But I can not be the one you talk to about those times and help you work through it because it is counterproductive to both of us."

CHANDLERS WISH

How often have you ever said those words?

They are powerful and mean the world to a daughter.

I was speaking with my Mother this morning. She said to me, " I live with remorse and regret, often about us".....

She is 70.

I turned around and said, "Mum, we are whom we are, and people must accept each person for whom they are, secondly, I understand, you do what you have to do, at that time".

She said " Yes, but I understand how you feel, it seemed that I gave everything to your brother and nothing to you".

I said, "Yes, mum and as a child it's hard to understand that and you rebel, feel un-loved, but as you grow, you come to realisation that you had no choice, you could only buy one wardrobe and one sterio and so I got the left overs", you have to understand that it's fine, you did what you could do at that time.

She finally let it go and felt good about the way in which I saw it, see it, now... and have for the past 20 years actually , she has continued to carry this obviously, un-beknown to me.

The point being, is that by telling my Mother , it's okay, I accept you for who you are and it's okay, you did what you had to do, with little money... means IT'S OKAY..

I also called her a silly beach, and she laughed.

It's the warmth of the other person KNOWING that you love them, is what matters and the understanding of why...

I would say to your daughter, "I love you so much..."... Just wanted to let you know.

Your still blaming yourself and you wish for closure I know, I get that but by adding all the other bits into it, your saying, it's her issue which is not going to help, work.

I think when I was 25, I did tell my Mother how I had felt about her, as a child and why.... She was brave enough to say I know, and know that the reasons were valid.

One day your daughter will realise, we do what we can do at the time, based on what we have and our lives at that time......

Just keep telling her you love her, I think that the anger and resentment does go eventually, but the constant knowledge that she's loved is what she needs to work the rest out on her own.

And, stop feeling guilty.

CW

__________________
Do we not realise that in order to find a soul
It doesn't happen over night
if truth were to be told

Like everything in life that's hard to achieve
you must believe!

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