Upset about pending abortion and ultrasound procedures

**thinker** · 05-17-2011 12:09 PM

I have a very limited amount of people that I can talk to and voice my frustrations to.

I am 43 years old and pregnant and do not want to have a baby nor do I want to go through the process at my age. I've had two complicated pregnancies; my first child had a lung tumor and I lost him at 8 months. My second child is healthy and is going to be 18 soon. I had a miscarriage at 38; was going to keep this child but miscarried due to a blighted ovum. I have only half of one of my original ovaries and one fallopian tube. I can't not have a baby naturally, only by c-section due to vertical incision on my uterus. When I asked about birth control after my last miscariage, I was told that the chances of my getting pregnant and having a viable pregnancy were slim.

So now I'm at an estimated 7 weeks and I have an abortion scheduled this Friday after painfully considering all options available to me in my circumstance at my age. Here is the main problem that I am having with the situation and procedure.

For a medical abortion which is what I decided would be best for me, I must have a transvaginal ultrasound. It occured to me after making the appointment to ask "What if the ultrasound shows that my pregnancy is not viable." The robot on the other end was rather rude about my question and told me that if I wanted to know if my pregnancy was viable or not, then I need to seek the advice and care of another Dr.

I'm fairly well educated and the chances of me having a natural miscarriage are at 50% at my age. Add to that the fact that the father is over 45 and my chances increase. Add to the fact that I tend to have a couple of glasses of wine a day and my chances increase again. I've taken various medicines and herbs since pregnancy not realizing that I might be pregnant. I am in peri-menopause so being late getting my period is not unheard of so I did not worry about much until I started getting sick and my breasts changed. So now even if I did not miscarry, the chances of my unborn child having some chromosomal or other damage either naturally becuase of my age or because of my ingestion of alcohol and other substances increases my risk.

I'm not going to drone on and on about this, I'm sure you get the idea. But again, I have a big problem with not being told that something is wrong with my pregnancy if an experienced sonographer and physican sees diferent and there is that chance, not only with me but with anyone. I was also told by the robot that the only reason they did the ultrasound was to to determine the position of the embryo or fetus in the uterus. I'm calling BS on this.

I'm still going to go through with the abortion. I understand the risks. But I would rather abort naturally if I had the option. I don't have the time to see a regular physician before my procedure nor do I have the resources. I got laid off from my job a couple of months ago and could not afford the cobra coverage.

Any thoughts on this subject other than abortion is wrong? I don't feel good about having an abortion as it is and would rather not go down that road again.

Thanks in advance.

**WildChild** · 05-17-2011 12:20 PM

You also have a higher risk if you go full term, for Downs Syndrome.
I don't know why the ultrasound unless there was concern that this could be a tubal pregnancy?

You have to do what is right for you and your health physically and emotionally. There are herbs that can cause miscarriage, I don't personally know anyone who has used them successfully. Given the emotional climate in the US I would guess that is not much shared.

Performed properly an abortion is less dangerous than a pregnancy actually.
You don't have to justify this. If it is right for you at this time, that is all you have to know. Don't worry about the robot. It is obvious this is not a lightly made choice for you but it is really no one else's business.

**thinker** · 05-17-2011 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by WildChild

You also have a higher risk if you go full term, for Downs Syndrome.
I don't know why the ultrasound unless there was concern that this could be a tubal pregnancy?

I am very aware of the increased risk for Downs. I grappled with that when I decided to have the baby I was pregnant with at 38. The risks were a little less then. That is one reason I decided against adoption in this case. Not too many people have their applications in for imperfect children. And I'm not fit for a special needs child.

The reason I was told is that an ultrasound must be done prior is to determine the placement of the embryo in the uterus. ??? I can understand doing an ultrasound to determine fetal age to be in compliance with the law and as you mentioned, to rule out a tubal pregnancy but that answer sounds like a whole lot of BS to me. You can determine age via other methods; HCG testing comes to mind. Levels are consistent with gestational age in most cases. Me thinks this is another way to jack up the cost of abortions; $580 for RU-486 and an additional $75 for Rhogam for us with a negative blood type.

I guess my biggest complaint is that I was told that I would not be informed either way if my pregnancy is viable or not, would be prescribed the pill anyway. Is that not a violation of the Hippcratic Oath to presrcribe or to perform that which not medically necessary?

A nurse from the clinic is supposed to call me back.

**WildChild** · 05-17-2011 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by thinker

I guess my biggest complaint is that I was told that I would not be informed either way if my pregnancy is viable or not, would be prescribed the pill anyway. Is that not a violation of the Hippcratic Oath to presrcribe or to perform that which not medically necessary?

I don't want to add to your stress but, what are you after here?

You stated pretty clearly in your opening post that you have done your homework, that you see yourself as having several potential complications, and that you aren't currently employed, and you aren't up to caring for a child with any challenges. You are stating that you feel they may be doing an unneeded ultrasound just to drive up the costs.

You have made it clear that you have decided to terminate but you are making the care provider or doctor wrong for providing this procedure?

Perhaps I am reading something into this that you didn't intend?

It is estimated that as many as 50% of pregnancies are miscarried. In most cases the woman doesn't even know. Unless there is a very clearly defined medical situation, No One can predict absolutely the viability of a pregnancy. I've no doubt that virtually all women who find themselves with an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy would prefer to abort naturally, in other words to have a miscarriage.

However if we take your quoted concern as correct then the vast majority of plastic surgery is a violation of this oath, as would be most of the use of botox and other "cosmetic" procedures and drugs, many other drugs prescribed for a variety of uses. I know someone who had surgery to try to stop snoring, this wasn't medically necessary and in fact not a procedure proven to be predictably effective, as in his case it was not and he lost his sense of smell and taste for nearly a year.

Are you questioning ALL doctor's actions that are not "medically necessary" or just abortion?
Do you consider the risks to your health and your emotional state to create a necessity?

If you have this genuine concern and are distressed by it, why are you planning to do this procedure? It seems you are setting yourself up in a no win thinking pattern.

I don't know what to say. Your initial post puzzled me because you stated that you'd made up your mind and you didn't really have a question, you just wanted "thoughts". Your second post has different flavor. Only you can decide if this is right for you at this time in your life.

**ItsASecret** · 05-17-2011 02:19 PM

The hippocratic oath applies to those practicing medicine in that they will use their professional opinion and judgement when making decision and performing procedures, they will apply ethics and have no interfering religious or emotional bias when treating others, adhere to precautionary measures and cause no harm onto a patient. An ultrasound is not a violation of the oath, it is a frequent procedure done by a professional providing a measure of precaution in the sense of the tubal or fetal positioning. Due to so many other circumstances within any woman's physiology it is nearly impossible to accurately determine if a pregnancy is viable or not when it is so early into the gestational period. Sometimes things look great and then the fetus dies for no reason, it happens, it is not predictable. An attending physician is therefore not able to tell you whether or not any pregnancy is absolutely viable or not, they take into account the variety of factors that could help increase the chance of a viable pregnancy with say prenatal vitamins but they are still not able to say with utmost certainty that any pregnancy is absolutely going to work out. Providing the ultrasound is merely the way medicine approaches a treatment protocol.

If you want other tests done feel free to bring them up, they will all cost money. The ultrasounds are often the most widely used because they are the quickest. You get an HCG test done you need to wait a lot longer as the lab is not always a quick method.

**thinker** · 05-17-2011 02:34 PM

I'm pretty sure that no one can predict the absolute viability of a pregnancy but if there is no yolk sac, and the embryo measures a lot less than what it is supposed to at 7 weeks, there is no heartbeat, or other indicatons of a failed pregnancy, I want to be made aware of this. I don't think it is unreasonable.

**ItsASecret** · 05-17-2011 02:37 PM

If the fetus is already dead or likely will be very soon they will say it. Otherwise ask.

**WildChild** · 05-17-2011 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by thinker

I'm pretty sure that no one can predict the absolute viability of a pregnancy but if there is no yolk sac, and the embryo measures a lot less than what it is supposed to at 7 weeks, there is no heartbeat, or other indicatons of a failed pregnancy, I want to be made aware of this. I don't think it is unreasonable.

Absolutely. I would think they would let you know. If the pregnancy has already failed and your body has not shed that material it could create a serious situation. As you already pointed out, it if that is the case then it is likely your body would do so.

However, your age and the fact that you have done some drinking and took some herbs does not necessarily mean that the embryo is affected.

Is it the tech or radiologist who told you to talk with another doctor? They may not be permitted to say anything because their protocol may be that your physician has to talk with you.

**belinda_davis** · 05-17-2011 07:58 PM

Are you sure you want to know if the pregnancy is viable? It will probably hurt you a lot. Having an abortion is never easy, my friend has had two and she will always wonder about the children she couldn't keep. But I think you are doing the right thing, just make sure you go to counselling and all that. I hear it helps with the emotions related to abortion. Good luck with everything!