Friend's Kid & ADD

**despero** · 09-11-2009, 04:45 PM

I have a friend, who I love. She is a great person, and we have fun together. A little high maintenance, but worth it.

She has 2 kids, and we have spent time together with both families. Her kids aren't horrible, they just don't listen. She has to tell them 5 or 10 times to do something or stop doing something before they actually stop.

They back talk her, and sometimes are down right rotten! Which, every kid is at some point, I get that. But as soon as she disiplines them, she apologizes.

The rule at my house is I tell you once. You don't listen, you go in time out. I don't believe in tolerating bad behavior, and I also don't believe in having to tell a kid 20 times to do something. Thats how I was raised, and I'm raising my son the same way. If I don't tolerate it from my son, why on earth would I tolerate it from someone elses kids? By the way, we're talking kids between 5 and 7.

Anyway, she's mentioned in the past that she thought her son had ADD. And it seems that now the teacher at school agrees, and they are going through the steps to have him diagnosed, and put on meds. The teacher told her that when she asks him to write his name on his paper, 10 mintues later, he still hasn't done it.

My first thought is, he doesn't listen to his parents when they ask him to do something, why would it be any different from the teacher? If his parents have to tell him to do something 20 times before he does it, is it really going to be any different at school? I mean, if hes been allowed to get away with not doing what he's told all this time, what would change it now?

And honestly, my first thought was he needs his little but busted, not medication. I believe that if he had been disciplined all this time, she wouldn't have the problem she's having. We, as parents, mold our kids.

We are there to love them unconditionally, but to also show them right from wrong, teach them lines that are not crossed, teach them respect, etc. And the more we allow them to get away with, the more they will push. They're little sponges...and they are constantly learning. If a child knows that what he's doing is wrong, but also knows that mommy isn't going to do anything, then he's going to keep doing it. It's our job to stop them from doing whatever it is that's wrong. Not to sit and tell them to stop 20 times before actually doing something.

My problem is, this is a very hard pill for me to swallow, and not voice my opinions. But I am trying very hard, as I don't want to ruin our friendship.

But honestly, I don't want to hear all about it, because I disagree with it. But who am I to tell her? You know? I sure as heck wouldn't want someone saying that to me! I'm doing my best to just listen, and offer her the best support I can.

I guess I just needed to vent here....

I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I truely don't think that all these kids diagnosed with ADD actually have the disease. I know there are kids out there that do have it, but not near as many as are on medication for it.

I think parents are to blame for a lot of it. So many parents these days don't discipline their kids at all, then when they get older, can't control them, so let's put them on meds for ADD, cuz they just won't listen to me! BS!!

Why would someone think that allowing a child to do whatever the heck they wanted to for the first 4 or 5 years of their life, then figuring out that that wasn't the best choice, try to control them now, and can't, and wonder why? I just dont' get that!

You see it all the time "I can't control my 6 year old" Are you kidding me??? The kid is 6!!! I dont' know, maybe I'm just old school. But my parents did a good job raising me, and didn't tolerate BS from me. I did what I was told, respected my elders, you know, all the good old fashioned values. My parents' number one priority wasn't to be my friend, it was to be my parent. Being my friend came second. It seems that so many nowadays have it backwards.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Sorry for the long post.

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 09-11-2009, 06:12 PM

To apologise after telling your child off, gives a green card to continue doing what ever he/she was doing, they know that they are not going to get into trouble.

It makes sense to me, that if you have to tell a child 20 times, then so will a teacher.

I do personally, believe that ADD is real. But, I also personally believe that it can also be a simple thing such as one child getting more attention and so, I call that attention seeking, rebelion..

It can also be that there are no rules and so it can be felt as "no love", whilst watching others get told off.. And, so anger.

But, it is all individual... each Parent is different and each child is different.

You are right at not interfering because my Mother tried that with her friend, she had one son late in life and he had what ever he wanted, spoilt to the hilt and therefore, dis-respected her all the time and she ignored it. He left home at 16 and needless to say, my Mother's friendship of 14 years went down the drain, yet we called her Aunty but never saw her again.

We can only do what we do with ours and unfortunately be there for our friends in my opinion.

CW

**despero** · 09-12-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

He left home at 16 and needless to say, my Mother's friendship of 14 years went down the drain, yet we called her Aunty but never saw her again.

And thats exactly what I'm afraid of. My problem is, I'm a very strong willed, voice my opinion type of person. I tend to tell it like it is....I don't like to BS people. But if I'm going to maintain our friendship, I'm going to have to suck it up.

It's just that every time she talks to me about it, the voice in my head is screaming what I"m thinking!! Thankfully, I have enough control to just "uh huh" my way through, and offer her support.

But man, its hard!! And it gets worse if I've had a few drinks....

Looks like we won't be drinking together for a bit.

Thanks for the info CW.

**OhThereYouAre** · 09-14-2009, 01:06 PM

I know exactly what you are saying.

Parents who fail to discipline their kids and then wonder why they don't listen.

But why alter the poor kids personality through meds? Does he deserve to go through his childhood not acting himself?

Thing is, a little hard work would go a long way here.

The problem these days is that everyone is so quick to medicate and take the easy way out.

Disturbing.

**WildChild** · 09-14-2009, 02:37 PM

I know someone who's doc actually told her if she altered her child's diet and gave them more attention, the ADD would not be an issue. She declared it "manipulative" behavior on the part of the child and demanded meds.
Sick.

**LanaBear** · 09-14-2009, 02:46 PM

See - that is what I don't understand...

I don't want to get into a huge debate over ADD but I have such a hard time when Dr's and parents are so eager to medicate and not deal with the issue. There are a lot of lazy parents out there, I may be jaded, but the parents who I know that have kids with ADD could change there parenting style for the better and I think there would be a vast improvement in the child's behavior. Unfortunately you have to start young though.

Yeah - we are not the perfect parents but one thing is we don't tolerate a lot of crp. They both know right from wrong and we are complimented on our children's behavior a lot and it makes me feel proud for them, not necessarily us. We've gone through stages with our kids. Being a parent, you have to constantly adjust yourselves for your children's sake IMO.

**WildChild** · 09-14-2009, 04:42 PM

I think there is a balancing act with this, but suspect environmental factors, especially diet in most cases. One of my nephews was diagnosed as ADD. His mother rejected drugs and took him to a homeopath/nautropath for treatment. They took him off dairy and did a treatment (one). Once the dairy was out of his system the symptoms resolved. He went from failing 3rd grade to being recommended for the advanced program. He is now a college student and has never had any further problems.

In his book, No More Allergies, Gary Null, cited studies done in the 1970s in the UK, where kids with ADD like symptoms (I don't think ADD or ADHD had been invented yet then) were placed on a low allergy diet and their behavior changed markedly. Then these kids were video taped consuming a "typical" meal, some didn't even finish eating before they were literally going nuts, throwing stuff, head banging, all sorts of out of control behavior. Now we have even more junk like BGH in our food supply - it's no wonder the numbers of people said to be ADD have been increasing.

I saw this when tutoring at the elem school. There was a special class that literally had two male "assistants" (more like beefy guards) in attendence at all times. It was a small class. More than once I witnessed one of those kids losing it, totally over the top. These were elementry school kids and it would take two full sized males and sometimes the teacher too, to restrain one of them without hurting them.

My observation, and conversation with the teacher confirmed, that this most likely to occur after lunch. I saw these kids lunches; soda, candy, chips - I was amazed. The teacher said they had told the parents not to send that kind of stuff. Oddly none of the other kids were allowed soda during school hours.

My guess is it all goes hand in hand, diet is in part a function of parental understanding and awareness. The woman I talked of earlier was pretty well off financially but lacked education in or willingness to learn about healthy eating. She considered pop tarts to be a "fruit". The idea that they were loaded with dyes, sugar and were highly processed just didn't register. The nanny just went with the flow.

Given the toxins we are surrounded with, often unawares, even careful, aware parents can be challenged with this. I think as we learn more we will find a host of problems related to diet and chemical exposure. Heavy dairy affects me like alcohol. At least 10% of the population is hypersensitive to parabens but how many make the connect with that and skin problems, eczema, swelling and other symptoms? Our bodies weren't designed to cope with much of what we are exposing them to.

**LanaBear** · 09-14-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildChild

She considered pop tarts to be a "fruit". The idea that they were loaded with dyes, sugar and were highly processed just didn't register. The nanny just went with the flow.

Oh geez!!! That's frustrating.

I keep the sweet stuff to a minimum or they start bouncing off the walls.

**Frustr8ed** · 09-14-2009, 05:39 PM

It's all in how you discipline. I have a child in the same age range. My wife claims he is ADD and some days is exhausted because of his behavior. When he does something after I get home she excaims she has dealt with it all day yet I tell him sternly once to stop and it stops. Occasionally it will happen again but all I have to do is give a quick look and it stops. He knows that his mother will just tell him over and over to stop but he knows I mean business.

By the way, kids have more respect and a deeper trust in a parent that disciplines quickly because they know that the parent will keep their word.

**WildChild** · 09-14-2009, 06:33 PM

I agree, keeping in mind that the word discipline means to master a subject or oneself, It doesn't mean punishment or abuse. Math is a discipline,as is science

.
Kids need to know what the limits and bounderies are and what the consequences of pushing or breaking them are. No must mean no. Just as a promise must be kept if at all possible.

09-11-2009, 04:45 PM	#1
despero VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 68	Friend's Kid & ADD I have a friend, who I love. She is a great person, and we have fun together. A little high maintenance, but worth it. She has 2 kids, and we have spent time together with both families. Her kids aren't horrible, they just don't listen. She has to tell them 5 or 10 times to do something or stop doing something before they actually stop. They back talk her, and sometimes are down right rotten! Which, every kid is at some point, I get that. But as soon as she disiplines them, she apologizes. The rule at my house is I tell you once. You don't listen, you go in time out. I don't believe in tolerating bad behavior, and I also don't believe in having to tell a kid 20 times to do something. Thats how I was raised, and I'm raising my son the same way. If I don't tolerate it from my son, why on earth would I tolerate it from someone elses kids? By the way, we're talking kids between 5 and 7. Anyway, she's mentioned in the past that she thought her son had ADD. And it seems that now the teacher at school agrees, and they are going through the steps to have him diagnosed, and put on meds. The teacher told her that when she asks him to write his name on his paper, 10 mintues later, he still hasn't done it. My first thought is, he doesn't listen to his parents when they ask him to do something, why would it be any different from the teacher? If his parents have to tell him to do something 20 times before he does it, is it really going to be any different at school? I mean, if hes been allowed to get away with not doing what he's told all this time, what would change it now? And honestly, my first thought was he needs his little but busted, not medication. I believe that if he had been disciplined all this time, she wouldn't have the problem she's having. We, as parents, mold our kids. We are there to love them unconditionally, but to also show them right from wrong, teach them lines that are not crossed, teach them respect, etc. And the more we allow them to get away with, the more they will push. They're little sponges...and they are constantly learning. If a child knows that what he's doing is wrong, but also knows that mommy isn't going to do anything, then he's going to keep doing it. It's our job to stop them from doing whatever it is that's wrong. Not to sit and tell them to stop 20 times before actually doing something. My problem is, this is a very hard pill for me to swallow, and not voice my opinions. But I am trying very hard, as I don't want to ruin our friendship. But honestly, I don't want to hear all about it, because I disagree with it. But who am I to tell her? You know? I sure as heck wouldn't want someone saying that to me! I'm doing my best to just listen, and offer her the best support I can. I guess I just needed to vent here.... I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I truely don't think that all these kids diagnosed with ADD actually have the disease. I know there are kids out there that do have it, but not near as many as are on medication for it. I think parents are to blame for a lot of it. So many parents these days don't discipline their kids at all, then when they get older, can't control them, so let's put them on meds for ADD, cuz they just won't listen to me! BS!! Why would someone think that allowing a child to do whatever the heck they wanted to for the first 4 or 5 years of their life, then figuring out that that wasn't the best choice, try to control them now, and can't, and wonder why? I just dont' get that! You see it all the time "I can't control my 6 year old" Are you kidding me??? The kid is 6!!! I dont' know, maybe I'm just old school. But my parents did a good job raising me, and didn't tolerate BS from me. I did what I was told, respected my elders, you know, all the good old fashioned values. My parents' number one priority wasn't to be my friend, it was to be my parent. Being my friend came second. It seems that so many nowadays have it backwards. I'll get off my soapbox now. Sorry for the long post. __________________ Make Today Better than Yesterday Last edited by CHANDLERS WISH; 09-11-2009 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Paragraphing for readers.

09-11-2009, 06:12 PM	#2
CHANDLERS WISH WH Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 9,940 Blog Entries: 7	To apologise after telling your child off, gives a green card to continue doing what ever he/she was doing, they know that they are not going to get into trouble. It makes sense to me, that if you have to tell a child 20 times, then so will a teacher. I do personally, believe that ADD is real. But, I also personally believe that it can also be a simple thing such as one child getting more attention and so, I call that attention seeking, rebelion.. It can also be that there are no rules and so it can be felt as "no love", whilst watching others get told off.. And, so anger. But, it is all individual... each Parent is different and each child is different. You are right at not interfering because my Mother tried that with her friend, she had one son late in life and he had what ever he wanted, spoilt to the hilt and therefore, dis-respected her all the time and she ignored it. He left home at 16 and needless to say, my Mother's friendship of 14 years went down the drain, yet we called her Aunty but never saw her again. We can only do what we do with ours and unfortunately be there for our friends in my opinion. CW __________________ Do we not realise that in order to find a soul It doesn't happen over night if truth were to be told Like everything in life that's hard to achieve you must believe! Register! \| Rules/FAQ \| Contact Mod

09-14-2009, 01:06 PM	#4
OhThereYouAre Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 1,302	I know exactly what you are saying. Parents who fail to discipline their kids and then wonder why they don't listen. But why alter the poor kids personality through meds? Does he deserve to go through his childhood not acting himself? Thing is, a little hard work would go a long way here. The problem these days is that everyone is so quick to medicate and take the easy way out. Disturbing. __________________ 'If you think you can or you can't, you're probably right..." "It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit..." "People who lack the sense to question Big Lies always end up in deep trouble..." "I don't worry about pointing fingers in the past...i operate under the assumption that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future..." "Build the life you want and then find someone to share it with, someone who fits where you are and where you are going..."

09-14-2009, 02:37 PM	#5
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,232 Blog Entries: 5	I know someone who's doc actually told her if she altered her child's diet and gave them more attention, the ADD would not be an issue. She declared it "manipulative" behavior on the part of the child and demanded meds. Sick. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

09-14-2009, 02:46 PM	#6
LanaBear Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Moon Lander Champion! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: A cozy little cottage on the moon. :-) Posts: 1,674 Blog Entries: 5	See - that is what I don't understand... I don't want to get into a huge debate over ADD but I have such a hard time when Dr's and parents are so eager to medicate and not deal with the issue. There are a lot of lazy parents out there, I may be jaded, but the parents who I know that have kids with ADD could change there parenting style for the better and I think there would be a vast improvement in the child's behavior. Unfortunately you have to start young though. Yeah - we are not the perfect parents but one thing is we don't tolerate a lot of crp. They both know right from wrong and we are complimented on our children's behavior a lot and it makes me feel proud for them, not necessarily us. We've gone through stages with our kids. Being a parent, you have to constantly adjust yourselves for your children's sake IMO. __________________ Sometimes life isn't the party we hoped for, but since we're here, we might as well DANCE!

09-14-2009, 04:42 PM	#7
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,232 Blog Entries: 5	I think there is a balancing act with this, but suspect environmental factors, especially diet in most cases. One of my nephews was diagnosed as ADD. His mother rejected drugs and took him to a homeopath/nautropath for treatment. They took him off dairy and did a treatment (one). Once the dairy was out of his system the symptoms resolved. He went from failing 3rd grade to being recommended for the advanced program. He is now a college student and has never had any further problems. In his book, No More Allergies, Gary Null, cited studies done in the 1970s in the UK, where kids with ADD like symptoms (I don't think ADD or ADHD had been invented yet then) were placed on a low allergy diet and their behavior changed markedly. Then these kids were video taped consuming a "typical" meal, some didn't even finish eating before they were literally going nuts, throwing stuff, head banging, all sorts of out of control behavior. Now we have even more junk like BGH in our food supply - it's no wonder the numbers of people said to be ADD have been increasing. I saw this when tutoring at the elem school. There was a special class that literally had two male "assistants" (more like beefy guards) in attendence at all times. It was a small class. More than once I witnessed one of those kids losing it, totally over the top. These were elementry school kids and it would take two full sized males and sometimes the teacher too, to restrain one of them without hurting them. My observation, and conversation with the teacher confirmed, that this most likely to occur after lunch. I saw these kids lunches; soda, candy, chips - I was amazed. The teacher said they had told the parents not to send that kind of stuff. Oddly none of the other kids were allowed soda during school hours. My guess is it all goes hand in hand, diet is in part a function of parental understanding and awareness. The woman I talked of earlier was pretty well off financially but lacked education in or willingness to learn about healthy eating. She considered pop tarts to be a "fruit". The idea that they were loaded with dyes, sugar and were highly processed just didn't register. The nanny just went with the flow. Given the toxins we are surrounded with, often unawares, even careful, aware parents can be challenged with this. I think as we learn more we will find a host of problems related to diet and chemical exposure. Heavy dairy affects me like alcohol. At least 10% of the population is hypersensitive to parabens but how many make the connect with that and skin problems, eczema, swelling and other symptoms? Our bodies weren't designed to cope with much of what we are exposing them to. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

09-14-2009, 05:39 PM	#9
Frustr8ed VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 39	Spare the rod - Spoil the child It's all in how you discipline. I have a child in the same age range. My wife claims he is ADD and some days is exhausted because of his behavior. When he does something after I get home she excaims she has dealt with it all day yet I tell him sternly once to stop and it stops. Occasionally it will happen again but all I have to do is give a quick look and it stops. He knows that his mother will just tell him over and over to stop but he knows I mean business. By the way, kids have more respect and a deeper trust in a parent that disciplines quickly because they know that the parent will keep their word.

09-14-2009, 06:33 PM	#10
WildChild Gold Contributor 500+ Posts Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Western USA Posts: 6,232 Blog Entries: 5	I agree, keeping in mind that the word discipline means to master a subject or oneself, It doesn't mean punishment or abuse. Math is a discipline,as is science . Kids need to know what the limits and bounderies are and what the consequences of pushing or breaking them are. No must mean no. Just as a promise must be kept if at all possible. __________________ We can only learn to love by loving. Iris Mudoch, British writer

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