I just don't get it.

**caster** · 04-01-2011 11:11 AM

I won't go into detail and do a bunch of cut and pastes, but I could to back this up.

I haven't been here long and do a fair amount of reading vs posting, but I have asked several questions and made posts of various issues looking for a womens insight. I most always get the "don't push her, don't force her" reply, to try things that "she" (wife) doesn't want to do. If she doesn't want to do it, let it go, etc...

Yet time and again I see posts and threads that "he's" selfish and such for not doing things to or for her that he's not comfortable with or doesn't like doing.

This being a womens forum I did expect a different style of replies, but it bothers me that it's mainly a one way street.
Doesn't mean I don't like the forum, but I wonder if some of you realize how hypocritical a lot of your posts are, especially from a mans point of view?

Personally I think each spouse should try about anything the other proposes, unless it's dangerous or illegal, and not complain word one about it. Just go with it, and if you don't like it you can then say your tried it and it's not for you.

Of course that would end 75% of the discussions on here though.

**KMonte85** · 04-01-2011 11:29 AM

Do you have examples you can provide of this double-standard? I can honestly say that I think advice given on this forum is very fair to both genders, but perhaps you have some examples that prove otherwise... Also, are you comparing similar issues brought up by posters, or are the subjects of the posts you're refering to a bit of an "apples and oranges" array of topics?

I disagree with your suggestion that each spouse should just do whatever the other wants, "and not complain one word about it". To me, that is just silly... I would never force my fiance to do anything he wasn't comfortable with, and I expect that he respects me enough to give me the same consideration. Does that mean that all doors should be shut, that nothing should be considered? No. But it also means that if you ask your SO to do something they aren't too happy with, even after giving honest consideration - you drop it, because you love your spouse for what they are, what they like, what they actually LIKE TO DO... and forget that there's that one thing you think would be fun, and they don't.

**CHANDLERS WISH** · 04-01-2011 03:14 PM

He is selfish for wanting blow jobs but he won't go down or her? So she gives and he doesn't

Verses, I want my wife to do this, that, I'm planning it all...and she should do it.... So planning without an equal discussion?

**stressed** · 04-01-2011 04:39 PM

If one does more than the other... it's wrong.

If one promises to give more but doesn't, it's wrong...

If one asks often but rarely gives and often turns down... wrong again.

Forcing our fantasies to our partners... wrong.

I understand your bitterness about your situation at home, but generally calling posters hypocrites won't help you...

**WildChild** · 04-01-2011 05:33 PM

Hard as it may be to accept, from what I've read and the relationship therapists I know ( a number of them) it is an unspoken given in relationship counseling that the men often really should be in individual counseling because they have attitudes and behaviors that are a problem but they will be resistant to it and walk out of the couples counseling if it is suggested and so it gets swept under the rug. That isn't to say that there aren't plenty of women with problems that they aren't dealing with.

We are in the process of reconfiguring what relationships are about and what are reasonable expectations for both women and men. We have huge elephant in the living room that is all the messages overt and covert that are conveyed by society, advertising, our parents and grandparents relationships, religions, even buried in our language use. Did you know that an informal survey done some years ago found that men's biggest fear from women was to be laughed at. Women's biggest fear from men? That they would be killed. This reflects a vast difference in life and relationship views and the reality of how many people live. This is the backdrop for our efforts in creating good positive relationships.

Granted as women, because of our life experiences (many of us have been beaten, raped, threatened or are close to women who have) when we hear certain things we may make assumptions that aren't always correct, but you might be surprised how often they are. Some of our men here have commented on how many women seem to just go through ugly relationship after ugly relationship - they are caught up in a cycle of being drawn to these men because of the way they were raised.

We really do try here to keep a balanced perspective. But this is an opinion forum and people who have perfectly happy lives don't tend to spend a lot of time on these types of forums. I will admit, I came here initially trying to understand how a man I loved passionately and who had been so caring and affectionate, could literally in a matter of minutes, right before my eyes, shut down and shut me out, for no reason that I could discern. It drug out for a long time before I admitted that it wasn't anything to do with me, some people who know us both did postulate that the relationship may have been "too good and too right" and it scared him that he would end up beyond hurt if it ended, so he sabotaged it. How do you deal with that? Act nasty instead of nice? We've still friends and I'm seeing someone else now, am much happier and have worked through a ton of stuff and taken everyone here along for at least part of the ride. I can honestly say that I am an emotionally healthier person for having been here and so I stick around hoping that my pain, stories and perspectives may help someone else. That is true of many of our long term posters, female and male.

In all honesty in the larger number of relationships, study after study has found that women give more and are more self sacrificing than men. It's not healthy, it resentment and that leads to the women eventually shutting down. This doesn't mean that there aren't cases that are the reverse and the man is the more giving. Frankly people of both genders can be a PIA, many of them are unreasonable, not very self aware, living very unconsciously. We all have our moments of glorious goodness and of being simply obnoxious. Some of us at least, you included are at least trying to ramp up the parts that are good.

Take what resonates with your situation and leave the rest.
But understand that it really is true, you (none of us) can make someone else be reasonable (by our standards) or do what is right (by our judgement). We might be able to force them to pretend to try but it won't be real or lasting unless it comes from within them. All we can do is change our approach, how we interact and respond and in some case that can create a huge change. It isn't always what we thought we wanted but life is about growth and change not about it all working the way we think it should.

**ItsASecret** · 04-01-2011 06:29 PM

Just because one person likes/loves/drools over one thing does not mean the next person/wife/husband/SO will. Pushing something goes nowhere fast. Going into a situation of "but you should like it" can lead to a very quick brick wall, going into a situation with "but I want it therefore I should have it therefore you should love it but you do not so this is unfair". Going into something with "I am mad because the response from her is not what I wanted" will do nothing. Just because one person is willing to try something and someone's SO is not willing to try that particular thing because of whatever personal reason does not mean it is an unfair world, it means that person has encountered individuality.

**BabyGirl** · 04-01-2011 07:07 PM

I haven't been here long and do a fair amount of reading vs posting, but I have asked several questions and made posts of various issues looking for a womens insight. I most always get the "don't push her, don't force her" reply, to try things that "she" (wife) doesn't want to do. If she doesn't want to do it, let it go, etc...

You are asking for a Woman's insight and are getting many Women's insight. Don't let the Forum nicknames fool you, some of them are men.
And in the thread you posted about the " secret weekend getaway " a couple of Men advised to " not Push or Force her " and Recommended that you Share your Idea's with her and make it a Joint Decision..
The men in our forum have experiences us women haven't had, The " Other Side " seen by them, lessons learned by them. They teach us the " Mens Side ".

Yet time and again I see posts and threads that "he's" selfish and such for not doing things to or for her that he's not comfortable with or doesn't like doing.

I agree, it does seem a bit one sided when it comes to the women complaining about the men. But then again it is called Women's Health. And when you look at how many women have the feelings that we all complain about and finding one man as " Rare " as you are that does attempt to love and seek to Please a Woman, to Renew, Reinvest, Rejuvenate a Love and Relationship

Just think of all of your Male friends, co workers, past friends.. How many of them are attempting what you are ? How many are just content or even un-happy in their relationships ?
How many just do the Daily Duties and are just going with the " Flow" . And Complaining or feeling like complaining, work, pay bills, do the " Honey Do List" and can't wait to go play Basket ball or Golf or work on their cars, fishing, hunting .. Whatever .. Just to get away from the Woman ?

I bet 8 out of 10 of your friends are very unlike you. I bet if you said to your Buddies, your plans about your Secret special weekend, with all of the details you gave us...
The only words they would have heard was the 3 outfits and their minds would have gone to SEX .. But Then again so was your mind on sex.

This being a womens forum I did expect a different style of replies, but it bothers me that it's mainly a one way street.
Doesn't mean I don't like the forum, but I wonder if some of you realize how hypocritical a lot of your posts are, especially from a mans point of view?

Closely read every post and maybe even visit the profile section,to see if they are male or female... You may see that we have very Special Men in here, just like you are and you can be one we women can ask advise from and trust in like we do the other Men.

It is correct that it is a One Way Street, We ALL here are looking for Happiness, Understanding, Compromising, Learning, Loving and feeling Secure, Healthy, by Mind body and Soul.

On the Hypocritical comment.

Honey Go tell all of your Male Friends in Person the things you share here with Us. Meaning the Forum of Men & Women. See how many say they understand and watch how many Stand with you and Help you and offer Bi Partisan Advise ?
Then come on back here..

Personally I think each spouse should try about anything the other proposes, unless it's dangerous or illegal, and not complain word one about it. Just go with it, and if you don't like it you can then say your tried it and it's not for you.

Of course that would end 75% of the discussions on here though.

I Totally agree with that one, to a POINT. Once you know your Spouse or even know the whole Person, the Whole Past, The Whole Secrets that made them Who they are that Made you Fall in love so Deeply.. That is what I call "Till Death Do Us Part ".

It's ok to Experiment New things.. And then it's ok to Experiment along the Way ( Married/ Relationship). It is Better to Share and at least learn what is " approachable " to Interconnect the Two Souls.

**Seeker_Advice** · 04-02-2011 06:03 AM

I would recommend in the future, that when making claims/statements as you have, that you back them up with solid examples from the start to support them.

**jns** · 04-02-2011 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by caster

I won't go into detail and do a bunch of cut and pastes, but I could to back this up.

I haven't been here long and do a fair amount of reading vs posting, but I have asked several questions and made posts of various issues looking for a womens insight. I most always get the "don't push her, don't force her" reply, to try things that "she" (wife) doesn't want to do. If she doesn't want to do it, let it go, etc...

Yet time and again I see posts and threads that "he's" selfish and such for not doing things to or for her that he's not comfortable with or doesn't like doing.

This being a womens forum I did expect a different style of replies, but it bothers me that it's mainly a one way street.
Doesn't mean I don't like the forum, but I wonder if some of you realize how hypocritical a lot of your posts are, especially from a mans point of view?

Personally I think each spouse should try about anything the other proposes, unless it's dangerous or illegal, and not complain word one about it. Just go with it, and if you don't like it you can then say your tried it and it's not for you.

Of course that would end 75% of the discussions on here though.

That may be a type of ideal thinking, however it is not realistic and certainly is not in line with what seems to be human nature. This ideal goes in opposition to actually communicating, because instead of explaining and allaying fears, a person could just dictate and the spouse would have to follow as best possible. This is already in place in some places, with the wife always having to follow the husband's wishes. I doubt such women like the situation although they go along with it. Maybe a case of Stockholm Syndrome. Do you want your spouse to follow by free will or not? Do you want her to have the same thing with you?

I know I don't know much about women but I try to tell of what I think I know in the hope it can help others.

**BabyGirl** · 04-03-2011 06:42 AM

When I read your Statement

Personally I think each spouse should try about anything the other proposes, unless it's dangerous or illegal, and not complain word one about it. Just go with it, and if you don't like it you can then say your tried it and it's not for you.

I get this Fantasy in my mind of being your wife and planning a special weekend where I invite another man to share it with us. With the Man being your Date for the weekend and me just watching you two making love all over the cabin. possibly even join you two , should your lovemaking arouse me. Or even you and I sharing him, but not each other..

If we use condoms, it won't be Dangerous, and it is not illegal for you to make love to another man. And I won't complain about it and if I'm with the man in front of you. you can't complain either.. So this Fantasy abides by your belief that you as my spouse should try it and just go with the flow.

And if you don't like it, you can say you at least tried it and it's not for you .. But if I liked being with another man, as per your belief, you'd just have to " go with the Flow".

Then again, we could always discuss what we do and where we go and come to a mutual agreement that we both are willing to do to enjoy our time together. ?

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