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Reply With QuoteHas your stance on such things softened as the years have gone by? Do you realize now that everybody has flaws and their own crosses to bear? I am not saying that you now agree with her decision, just you would give her a greater allowance.
Values and priorities
I was reading the forum 'I'm Against Her Breast Reduction' and I agree with the moderators. Love that is contingent on bust size is inexcusably superficial. Here’s a related issue/experience:
When I was in my 30s I was in a very, very long term relationship with a woman (no children). She had elective cosmetic surgery done. It was completely unnecessary and I was against it. When she had it done my opinion of her plummeted and I ended the relationship.
I’m a socially traditional man. When I brought her home from the hospital after the surgery she was thoroughly bandaged. After a few days she took off the bandages and I was horrified by the extensive ugly bruising and inflammation. It was a visceral reaction that I felt down to my stomach. I felt nauseous. Nothing had gone wrong with the surgery. This was normal.
I knew in my heart that my feelings for her had changed and it took me some time to understand why this was so. The surgery had revealed to me - in a very shocking way – that we had totally different values and priorities. For me it was as if I was looking at a stranger. It was actually a bit scary. I felt alone.
What a person is willing to pay in money, health risks, bruising and pain reveals what things are worth to them. My private emotional reaction was that she was insane. I no longer trusted her.
I can’t love a woman if I don’t respect the values that underlie her choices.
Virgo
Has your stance on such things softened as the years have gone by? Do you realize now that everybody has flaws and their own crosses to bear? I am not saying that you now agree with her decision, just you would give her a greater allowance.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience.
...
Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?
Patrick Henry
Do you mean priorities as in money and values as in changing what God gave to us?
You know for some women, it boosts their confidence where otherwise they were at their lowest, from past problems, in-securites and even sometimes, worse... By electing to change their outerself, hides the previous person and gives them perspective and belief to live again...
It can for some people be the best thing....My point being if it is physcological and not purely a gain for self, to catch more men, be a person of ill-trust, using others to get themThen we can't taint a person the same way.
CW
Do we not realise that in order to find a soul
It doesn't happen over night
if truth were to be told.
Like everything in life that's hard to achieve
you must believe!
My boyfriend's teeth aren't the greatest. But if he went and got pearly white vineers one day... I would feel strangely sad.
However if he wanted to get his teeth fixed because they were causing him pain, discomfort, were damaging his self-esteem... I would never in a million years feel sad or try to talk him out of the procedure or love him less afterward.
So I don't think I can agree or disagree with your post unless I know the reason your ex-partner had the surgery.
The man who posted about the breast reduction seemed to not care about the discomfort his partner was feeling, he just cared about how she looked.
There was no sensible justification for her decision to go through with the surgery. She was a very attractive woman and always dressed elegantly. Men would complement her. Women would envy her sense of style. She underwent this horrendous surgery for the purpose of increasing her physical beauty by perhaps 3% - at most. I know that appearance matters but there’s a point where too much emphasis on it makes the person superficial in their heart. Quite simply, after the surgery I never saw her in the same way. I realized that the person I had met many years prior had changed completely. When I met her she was a practical and unassuming woman. She had changed into an ambitious, pretentious, posturing person panting for social approval.
Virgo
Virgo, that's sad. She must have had a deep insecurity. Perhaps it wan't apparent at first but came out over time. We see so many people here who post photos and they are beautiful but cannot see or recognize their own beauty. This is just all too common a problem.
We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer
What happened to unconditional love ?
As I am writing this, I am challenging myself as well.
Would I still wave the unconditional love flag if my SO starts drinking too much ?
Will I still see her as the one walking the path of Life with me ?
I suppose it all depends on the nature and depth of change.
Depth in the sense, how much of the core is changed, distinguishing the pretends from what is underneath.
Apparently you made up your mind, and it's all good.
Behold the presence of the Father in all beings...
Not many people even understand un-conditional love and why? Because they are testing, the waters, find things within someone that is not what they believe in, their morals verses someone elses, this is the core of a relationship in my opinion and that of many an Author, morals and core values have to be the same.
We can not walk blindly and settle, another favourite word of mine, it is not going to make us happy in life...
What Virgo saw was ego ....pleasing others, not being the "inner" self and so he saw no morals, no core value and so it opened his eyes
But yes I see where you are coming from but you have to love and have the same values and core values..
CW
Do we not realise that in order to find a soul
It doesn't happen over night
if truth were to be told.
Like everything in life that's hard to achieve
you must believe!
Unconditional love is a wonderful thing but we can love someone without living with them. We love our children and families unconditionally but that doesn't mean we have to "love" intolerable behavior or support negative behavior. Nor does unconditional love mean that because we loved and committed to someone at one point, that we are bound to them forever no matter what changes or how unhappy we become in the relationship. I love most people who cross my path to some degree, I love many people here. That doesn't mean I want or need to spend my life with them, want to share a home or bed with them or think that everything they do is wonderful.
I would not want a man in my life to decide that "unconditional" love means we have to be together forever no matter what and then face a lifetime with someone who grits their teeth as they "love" me. That could kill the love faster than anything.
I still have loving feelings for every man who has ever been in my life and some of them were beyond terrible and ugly to me. I love them in that I hope they find healing and learn to be loving, caring, happy people. Do I want them in my life again? No. I can wish them well and send loving hope at a nice distance. But I already know that up close and in their lives I was not able to be a persuasive force for change, at least not at the time. I know at least a couple of them later realized what they had lost, although I don't know that they ever accepted responsibility to themselves for their actions.
Unconditional love is not some sort of right or rite. I see that there are levels of love. You can love and have compassion for innumerable beings but within a relationship, love with passion, love with desire, love that is sustained through time, takes energy and effort. Like a garden it has to tended. Sometimes that love is like a tree that lives for decades or even centuries, other times its more like an annual that has a brief bright showy bloom and then dies. More often it is some where in between, a perennial that will last a long but still needs care and attention.
We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer
Most of us agree that the " Boob" issue seemed to be purely a Selfish Physical Attraction to the man that posted itOriginally Posted by virgo man
When I was in my 30s I was in a very, very long term relationship with a woman (no children). She had elective cosmetic surgery done. It was completely unnecessary and I was against it. When she had it done my opinion of her plummeted and I ended the relationship.
It is sad you don't mention a Loving, Long term Relationship...
Did she ever try to explain why She felt it was Necessary ?
Did she have self Esteem issues, was it Job related, the kind you have to look your " Best " in a Competitive Job Market ?
Can you tell us that if she had Not changed her physical appearance that you would still be with her today ?
And if she gained 50-100 lbs and her Physical Appearance changed .. Would you still be with her today ?
I also wonder that if she just let herself go, gained weight, stopped thinking of how she looked, became Frumpy or Dowdy.. Would you have encouraged her to " Better Herself" . Dress nicer, better exercise habits, better eating habits.
I’m a socially traditional man. When I brought her home from the hospital after the surgery she was thoroughly bandaged. After a few days she took off the bandages and I was horrified by the extensive ugly bruising and inflammation. It was a visceral reaction that I felt down to my stomach. I felt nauseous. Nothing had gone wrong with the surgery. This was normal.
Please Define " Socially Traditional "
I am assuming and may be wrong..
But that you felt that you could not be seen with someone who looked as she did at the time, in public. That her bruises and inflammation horrified you, made you sick to your stomach. That is understandable.
But had she been in a Car Accident or a Fire or something else that could have caused that inflammation and bruising . Of course you would have felt the same horrific feelings.
And if she felt she should have surgery to correct or even modify her appearance to not have others take one look and Judge her by her Outer Skin or Looks..
Would you have been against that ?
I knew in my heart that my feelings for her had changed and it took me some time to understand why this was so. The surgery had revealed to me - in a very shocking way – that we had totally different values and priorities. For me it was as if I was looking at a stranger. It was actually a bit scary. I felt alone.
It seems you two did have totally different " Values and Priorities ". The differences is how much you accept people for who they Are.. Inside and yes Outside too.
Evidently she had something Inside that was telling her to change her Outside. It could have been Emotional, Mental or a combination of both. Including Self Worth. It could be Aging and not wanting to Age Gracefully.
It could be " Socially Acceptable" to get the new " look", to look Hot , to look like you care about your " Socially Acceptable In Crowd ". Or even to have You find her Acceptable and Proud to walk down the Street with her.
What a person is willing to pay in money, health risks, bruising and pain reveals what things are worth to them. My private emotional reaction was that she was insane. I no longer trusted her.
You are Soooo Correct in that Statement...
Take people who Smoke or Drink or Do Drugs, Ones that just will not give up the " Bad " things for their Bodies.
It is a Health Risk.. There is Pain in the Cancer or Heart or Liver Disease. The pain given to those who worry about the ones they Love.
** Note that any and all of us that do things we know are Unhealthy or Harmful to our Bodies.. Reveals to others what is Worth of their Love.. as well as ourselves.
We all have our Faults and it is up to the " SO " to decide if they are willing to Risk, Loving Us, For The " Long Run ".
All I can say to that is with Age and Maturity, we all Change in some ways, Physically, Emotionally, Mentally.. That is what Living is about. LIVING to the Fullest, as we all must Die someday.I can’t love a woman if I don’t respect the values that underlie her choices.
Virgo
And on a Note, I hope you never have to change your " appearance", Go Balding and do the Come-over or have to use hair transplants or even just show up in Public, running for President Like Donald Trump..
We all know his hair is Fake.. But at least he has some " Socially Traditional " Views.. lol
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