Oh my, my jaw fell open? lol.

I do agree that people "deserve respect, their own space" and in a committed relationship, there should be trust, or else un-commit, simple.

But I also find it hard not to agree with the above poster, but only in as much as early stages of a relationship/romance..

Surely, if you have been married for years you know a "red flag" and you know the answer, ask, get lied to, feel it, make your decision...

Firstly, okay so shoot me, we are women and we have intuition.

Secondly, shoot me twice, I managed an Investigation Firm for 4 years, so i have a different intuition that shows "reg flags", it's whether you want to see them or not and if you do, then how can you just "ask" the question, your not going to get an honest answer if the red flag is actually "real"..

You have to play detective... sometimes for your own safety.... if in a "new" relationship until you can build that trust, if things just aren't adding up.

There, i am sorry, i would and will and maybe have, definately checked a few things out...

Committed ones? As, i said, you should know, if you communicate and therefore, "know the person", you should be able to work out if something is different.

CW

Thankfully thier are some women on here that do see my point. For 20+ years I never doubted until it was basically put in my face. I would have had no problem with her being his ex and him talking to her (occasionally) or hugging and kissing when we see her. The problem is the FACT that they both lied and covered up that they were ex's. I was told instead she was like a sister to him. She sent cards for different occasions, presents. Not to mention the texts and long calls.
So not to be rude or anything ANON and Wilhelm, I am not just "his girl" i am his wife. I have put over 20 years into our relationship and stuck by him through a whole lot. You don't even know half the story of what i have gone through with this man. Relationships are wonderful but they are also work, you have to work at them if they mean anything to you. Relationships are give and take, he has taken more than he has given but it was my choice to put up with.
However, I can assure you there is no way, no how anyone would put me out! Ever. I can tell that you must be a very young man to think that you would have that option. But since she would only be your "girl" or young herself it might work. If you ever get with a strong woman, one that knows who she is and what she wants, can take care of herself. One that doesn't NEED you for anything but loves you and wants you in her life, maybe you will realize, you wouldn't just be putting anyone out. Especially if you caused the doubt in the first place.

So how has it been from here?

Did you find out more about this woman? Her daughter?

This is hard for you i know, a long time together, very long time.

If she has been married, divorced that may times, maybe she came on to him a couple of years ago, maybe he is wanting something he is missing now?

She sounds like the last person any man would want to connect with and "Mother's Daughter"..

I think the guys didn't read the beginning till the end, rather should or should you not check...

I think your following "intuition" where i said, you "choose to see it or not",

So, you chosing to see it but he can stay?

Fear of all those years wasted?

Why not tell him everything you know if you haven't and what YOU want and see his reply?

CW

Ok, let me draw up a little scenario for you, bear with me, I might be taking it to extremes. Let's say Joe has planted bombs around the city, and if they go off the death toll will be over 100 people. Let's say that we have captured Joe, and no matter how much we torture him, he won't tell us where the bombs are or how to disarm them. We find Joes family, his lovely young wife and four children, not one aged over 10, who no nothing about the plan or what a nasty man Joe is.

It would make perfect sense to torture his family to death one by one before his eyes, crossing whatever moral boundries we assumed that we had, for the greater good, to get the information, committing great atrocities.

What would you do? From your answer to the above I guess it would involve torturing children. Morals and ethics are flexible to the real world. Whatever works.

Relating this again to the keylogger example, you might deem it necessary, but if your man was someone like me or any others, you are simply running the certainty that if caught, and personally I would catch it since I'm a computer wiz, I wouldn't be able to even look at you. I would kick you out, or even if you were the mother of my children, I would discontinue any relationship I had with you outside of raising our children, and there would be an uneasy hatred between us. If you are willing to go to such extremes, you must be willing to accept the fact that maybe you are wrong and you destroyed the relationship and your trust yourself.

First, not that I'd like to answer for Whilhelm particularly, but he's old and has children. So that makes you wrong in your assumption.

And yes, I would throw that someone out, I have strong personal convictions, and I would want nothing to do with someone who could so happily walk over them. In fact I would enjoy punishing them, in vengeance. No matter how much they loved or needed me.

If you don't trust someone, have a conversation, you should know them enough to believe them or not. If you don't, then end the relationship. That simple. Admittedly less simple when children are involved, but kids learn all the wrong this living with parents who don't like each other.

Twenty years IS a long time. But think about it this way; when an inmate gets out of jail, even if he was in jail for 20 years he's not going to say, "Well I was there for a long time so I guess I'll have to spend the rest of my life here."

Plus think about the kids; kids can sense when something's wrong. When my dad cheated on my mom, I was five. I didn't know the exact detail of what was happening, but I knew Mommy was upset. And I blamed myself (kids do that). The kids know SOMETHING'S up, even if they might not know exactly what. It isn't good for them to be in a stressful household.

Looking back, I actually felt relieved when my dad finally moved out. The silent tension stopped. I missed him, but I was happy Mom wasn't sad anymore.

Suprisingly enough, it's better for all parties involved when the partners have time away from eachother to figure things out. You'll be glad you stepped away from the situation and had time to regroup.

Anon - great thread about torture- but drifting off topic - happy to take it elsewhere (though I think I agree with you).

I also agree that finding a keylogger, a hired PI, or any other direct spying would result in an instant filing for divorce - far more so than finding my wife in bed with the plumber AND the electrician would.

I maintain that if your trust has deteriorated to the point where you need to spy, the relationship is over - it is time to find a equitable and legal settlement. Once you start spying, you will eventually find something, why go through all the pain and time.

Of course if you are spying just to collect evidence for a divorce case - that is rational, though unethical in my personal opinion. (I won't argue the unethical - just that it would be for me).