StillLearnin

For some reason I felt the need to post this. This is what finally facilitated an attitude change for both of us. My attitude has been bad because I kept being dissatisfied because I didn't really believe that she was there for me. Her attitude was affected by life and things that get in the way of a relationship. We have been discussing this problem for years and years.

What prompted this was during one of our recent discussions a while back she said that she thinks what I'm wanting is a total fantasy. So when I gave this to her I was expecting her to tell me that I'm smoking crack or something and to get real. But she finally understood what I'm really needing in this marriage. She said her list would be similar, but with adding that a spiritual relationship is important to her. I asked her if that is conflicting with my needs, she said no, and it shouldn't. She said they should compliment each other.

So here it is.

My ideal marriage

This list isn’t implying anything, or making a statement about what I’m not receiving. It’s simply what I think would be an ideal marriage with an ideal woman to meet my needs, socially, romantically, and sexually.

I need to say that of course because of life and things that come up that I realize that each item cannot possibly be done on a daily basis, or even weekly. This is more of a relationship philosophy that both partners would follow and strive to achieve.

• Spend time with family, kids and their activities.
• Work together to support our children, to raise them in a stable home, and provide guidance to help them be able to meet the challenges of the world when it’s their time to leave the nest.
• To be able to say that we love each other openly.
• Have time to kick back after work and meet for a drink during the week.
• Get a big hug and kiss when I get home.
• Go out dancing with friends to have a good time.
• Go to movies, plays, operas, and concerts when we can.
• Share the chores, errands, and running the kids around town, because we’re both in this together.
• Be able to do my own hobbies like band, soccer, motorcycle, and happy hours with friends.
• Be able to share my hobbies like motorcycle riding with her on some weekends.

• Be able to flirt, be passionate, send emails and text messages, allowed to express my/our sexuality.
• No inhibitions in the bedroom. And no sexual hang-ups.
• Feel comfortable being naked together, not needing to cover up in shame or awkwardness.
• Experts at pleasuring each other, and wanting to because we love and trust each other, and enjoy making each other happy, knowing that nobody else in the world can do that.
• Open to try new things to keep the fire going.
• Make love three to four times a week. Sometimes go several rounds.
• Be able to sow my wild oats with her, and to be able to talk about things openly that I’m needing and wanting to do and try. When I die I don’t plan on regretting not having those type of experiences.
• Wife wants to be intimate as much as I do, looks forward to the time together as much as I do, and takes the time to make it happen because it’s a priority for her.
• Wife is my life companion, my best friend, the mother of my children, my lover and mistress.
• I want to know that I’m at the top of her list, not at the bottom after kids, housework, and errands. I’m there to help with all that other stuff. With life.

One way to describe the ideal marriage would be a happy middle-aged hippy couple that knows how to love and care for each other and their children, and know and understand the emotional and physical needs of a relationship. They love life, and go with the flow to make things work for everybody in the family, putting the love for each other first, and everything else naturally falls into place.

StillLearnin

Might help if I put this in context. Go read my other thread:

http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...-jaw-sore.html

pretzel

I didn't see anywhere other than your wishes in the bedroom about treating her with the respect for her feelings/wishes/desires.

Sorry, that list rubbed me a little on the selfish side.

Best relationships work best when you put your partners well being ahead of your own.

StillLearnin

Good point. But for the past 25 years I have been fully meeting her needs, sexually and non-sexually. She'll admit that to anybody. I'm now getting to express my needs to her, which she finally seems to be open to. I have always loved, respected, and cared for her. Now it's her turn to understand what my needs are. Frankly, its been a one sided marriage all these years. She has never learned, never even really asked, what mine are.

pretzel

Actually that's at 2 steps ahead of where I'm. Right now I'd take anything short of drunken sex from my wife and we've only been together 5 years. My first marriage lasted close to 20 years and I dealt with her not being comfortable with sex short of the basics. I chose to put my ego in the closet. I'm doing the same now.

I'm currently dealing with a wife who is absolutely not interested in sex under normal circumstances. She's dealing with the onset of menopause and that is bringing in a whole different set of issues.

But realistically what was part of your ideal marriage is unfortunately not a realistic goal right now. Maybe that could be a reason why I didn't see eye to eye with yours.

StillLearnin

Ok, I wouldn't mind adding this. But I thought this was implied based on the love and intimacy that I stated I wanted. To be intimate means understanding her needs, at least to me it does.

• To have a complete understanding of her wants, needs, and desires, physically, emotionally, in and out of the bedroom.

pretzel

Fair enough. Actually I may like to keep and use this for my won personal reference.

Anyway, unfortunately end of a long day for me. Hopefully tomorrow will be a good one.

StillLearnin

That's one reason I felt the need to post this. If it can help anybody else open up the line of communication with their spouse, please, be my guest. We've struggled with this problem for years. I basically shut down my sexual desires towards her because I was always cut off. If I expressed any sexual frustration she would tell me to grow up and get over it. I would just have to accept what I got. It was brutal. The frequency wasn't enough, the variety was totally lacking, I was going crazy with sexual frustration. I'm not getting any younger, and she isn't either. I don't have many more years to enjoy an active, passionate, sexual relationship. I was getting to the point of deciding if the rest of my life is going to be spent with her or not. This should be a turning point for us. God, I pray that it is. It's looking good so far.

PJhavinfunagain

As a woman and wife I like this list. There are a few things I may add and some I would change. 1 in-particular is that depending on the age of the children a woman/wife/mom is not going to put her husband first. He is a grown person and can take care of himself. The children on the other hand can not. I understand that men think this sucks but it is human nature. Now this is not to say a wife should ignore her husband completely. Just saying that for many of us when we have children it is like a switch is flipped. We have no choice but to follow our instincts which are to be a mother. Being a wife and mother can be a tricky balance. I know after 8 years of marriage and mommy-hood I am still figuring it out.

I celebrate the successes you and your wife are experiencing. I wish more men had the patience to get to the root of these issues.

__________________
"When one door closes, another opens. But we often look so regretfully upon the closed door that we don't see the one that has opened for us."
Helen Keller

WildChild

All sounds lovely. Comes down to it takes both people who love and want to create something that works. Been married a few times - never had it. Like you Still Learnin I keep putting my ego, my needs, in the closet and catering to theirs, at some point you just can't take it any more and have to get out or completely lose yourself in misery.

However, I will state that I believe that our expectations for menopause have a lot to do with our experiences with it. I hit it with several personal and family crisis to deal with and had no time to have "symptoms", now as I am getting happier in my life and doing quite a bit more laughing, my primary symptom is horniness. My Ob-Gyn, says much of what is attributed to menopause is actually stress because it tends to hit at a time when there are just a lot of changes going on in life anyway. She actively disuaded me from thinking of some of what I was experiencing with my health being menopause and she was right. That doesn't mean it's true of every woman but the mind is powerful and it is interesting that there are cultures where menopause has no symptoms and they seem to be ones with a different diet and far less stress. There is much we have yet to understand about this time of life.

__________________
We can only learn to love by loving.

Iris Mudoch, British writer