pretzel

I know. I think we both have posted about this issue with our wives on numerous occaisons so I'm totally understand.

I give my thoughts mainly because I might be headed in the same direction as you pretty soon. So in truth, part of it is in getting my own feelings and priorities straight.

I would hate the thought of causing permanemt damage to my marriage because I pushed to hard too quickly.

Explorer44

I kind of agree with this. My mother neglected her last husband so much that he hooked up with a woman he met on a flight, divorced my mother and married her. My mom really wasn't getting the relation part of relationship, and I think she just assumed that things would just be fine without her having to do anything.

After he left, she was bereft, and stating, "Why didn't someone tell me? I would have done anything-we could have tried something?"

I have no idea if he had ever tried to gently talk to her about things, but I don't think he ever "laid down the law". I do think that if he had, she might have realized how close things were to disaster. At least she wouldn't have been in such shock when he walked out.

I totally sympathize. That many years is a long time. Home study courses-I'm not sure about that. I mean, what is she going to study? Positions? Technique? Medical Issues? Psychology?

I wish you both well, but I would say that you'll maybe want to read those books too so you know what she's learning/studying..that might help you dialogue about it.

WildChild

You might check out the Welcomed Consensus. They focus primarily on female orgasm and have a bunch of instructional DVDs. Have no fear of this seeming pornish, they are down right clinical- a little too much so for my taste but there is a series on self pleasure as well as on couples. They are really into using your hands more so than actual intercourse.There are also seminars and classes available.

You've lived with this situation for a long time and while it certainly should be correctable much more quickly than 20+ years, it will take some time. It seems that anything which would increase pleasure for both of you would be a good thing and anything that would improve your communication would be good. You both need to work on a multi faceted approach. I'd see anything you do that would meet the qualification (this is my guiding principal these days) that if it won't hurt and might help - give it a try. If you don't resolve this and start seeing progress the relationship is over, you want what you do to be positive and not create new problems. Even if you can't save this, you both would be learning things that might serve you well in the future. So by all means try different things, I don't know where all of you are but do a search for your areas for sex educators associations, tantric groups (they do educate and guide) and other groups that are into improving people's sexual and relationship experiences. At the very worst you will meet some new people, be exposed to some different thoughts and learn a little something.

__________________
We can only learn to love by loving.

Iris Mudoch, British writer

StillLearnin

She went to the bookstore today (I drove her there) and got the book Hot Monagomy. Looks pretty good. I skimmed through it and it's almost as if it was written specifically for our problems. Things like communication about sex, intimacy, desire, variety are discussed, and there are quizzes for both partners to help determine the gaps that need to be bridged. I'll be reading it along with her and doing the quizzes. I'll make sure she reads every word of it and we do all the quizzes together.

Wish us luck. She took the step to do something. Finally.

WildChild

Well give it a read and add it too the Books about Sex thread? You could give us a book review.

__________________
We can only learn to love by loving.

Iris Mudoch, British writer

StillLearnin

We did our first exercise from the Hot Monogamy book. It was a questionnaire about our individual levels of desire, passion, romance, talk, intimacy, etc. The objective is to compare and discuss.

Not surprising, her desire and passion is very low, mine is at the top of the chart. Plus, I'm more romantic than she is. She sees romance as "all that cr*p". And she doesn't like to talk about sex AT ALL. And especially doesn't like to hear anything vulgar because it disgusts her.

There's some major differences that we have to work through. It's really amazing that I could live with the differences for this long without leaving to find somebody more compatible.

So basically I've adjusted to her low drive (actually low everything) all these years and haven't been true to myself, to who I really am. And she's never even bothered to ask or care what my needs are. I've been in tune and respected her needs all this time because I love her. Or think I do. Or in love with the idea of her. I don't know.

Well, no more. She has some major adjustments to make. No more cutting off my desire, passion, romance, communication.

I'll keep you posted about how progress is going with Hot Monogamy over the coming weeks.

Wish us luck.

OhThereYouAre

Luck.

__________________
'If you think you can or you can't, you're probably right..."

"It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit..."

"People who lack the sense to question Big Lies always end up in deep trouble..."

"I don't worry about pointing fingers in the past...i operate under the assumption that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future..."

"Build the life you want and then find someone to share it with, someone who fits where you are and where you are going..."

StillLearnin

Here's a positive spin on it: opposites attract. For good reason too. If both people share the exact same personality traits and the exact same interests and passions (outside of the bedroom), it would be a boring relationship.

But the foundation of the relationship should be similar, I think. Some common bonds need to be in place, like romance and desire.

From Paula Abdul's song Opposites Attract:

"Who'd a thought we could be lovers
She makes the bed
And steals the covers
She likes it neat
And he makes a mess
I take it easy
Baby I get obsessed
She's got the money
And he's always broke
I don't like cigarettes
And I like to smoke
Things in common
Just ain't a one
But when we get together
We have nothin' but fun"

StillLearnin

Sorry, I'm rambling. I need to clarify about opposites.
We are very similar in our views on religion, politics, education, family values, etc. We both like fine dining, dancing, going to concerts (when we can), and partying with our friends. We get along with most everything, and are a good team for raising our children because we agree on what we believe is the "right" way to manage a family. So all that is good.
But there's just a few key and important areas in the relationship where we have opposite viewpoints and drives, which statistically, are relationship killers.
I'm also saying this because I need to remind myself of all the good things as well...

WildChild

What's that saying? Where attention goes energy flows. Staying focused on the positives while working on the rest is a good plan. Remember that while sometimes people can seemingly change overnight, it usually takes time. We program ourselves or have been programmed with things that go deep, rooting them out can be a real challenge. Your frustration shows and is understandable but don't set immpossible expectations. She has to want to change.

Some say, When the pain of staying where you are exceeds the pain of change, then change will occur. But wouldn't it be better if the attitude was that the pleasure of change should exceed the complaicancy of staying the same?

__________________
We can only learn to love by loving.

Iris Mudoch, British writer