Thread: Sex = Passion = Intimacy?? (Minivanman please read!)

As a seperate question aside from his inhibility to be intimate without sex... do you feel like you have sexual chemistry for him? Does he have the ability to turn you on or do you feel like its more work than it should be to become interested in him in that way?
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I feel like I did have WAY more sexual chemistry with him than I do now, but more so now than I did at one point in our relationship. Sounds confusing I know. But I don't really question my sexual attraction because I obviously had no problem with that in the beginning and as far as his physical appearance, he has lost weight, toned up.....so it's not like I thought he was hot and now I don't. He would turn me on a lot more if he didn't do the EXACT same things every time he pursues sex with me. It's SO predictable. For instance, one time during making out in the beginning of our relationship, he kissed my neck and I was already turned on so I really really enjoyed it. So now, that's his thing. That's what he does if he wants sex. That's what he does if he's trying to turn me on. And even if I clearly don't want sex, he'll sit beside me and kiss on my neck while I'm watching tv. Over and over and over. Because he wants sex, and because he got positive reinforcement with the neck kissing, ONCE, it's every time. I really find it hard to be turned on by that, or to be turned on by someone looking down my pants at my undies when I'm trying to hug,, or humping or attacking my face every time we lay down together. :\ Once during sex, we were in doggystyle position and I told him to pull my hair. I like that sometimes, in THAT position. So NOW, he'll try to pull my hair no matter what position we're in, even if I'm on top. haha. It really comes down to, inside the bedroom I have to take charge (sound familiar to other areas of our relationship? ), I have to tell him when, how, etc. Maybe in the beginning I was ok with that cause it was a "learning you" phase, but now, I'm not so okay with it. I've found with him that if I don't say "harder", "faster", this way or that way, he'll get in one position, stay in that position, move at the same speed and same intensity the entire time. So in order for ME to enjoy sex with him, I have to tell him what to do, which after a certain extent is a turn off for me.

What if he really means bonding?

An no sex, means, in-ability to bond with you, feel close.....

Perhaps his choice of words may be wrong and your hanging on to them

And I'm fine with him considering sex "bonding" with me. But I'm not fine with it if it's the only way he can bond with me and we can't be close without him trying to "bond" with me or in my words "get in my pants". To me you can bond in many different ways. How can he know who I am, learn about me, appreciate me as a woman, my character, my strengths, how can he do that if hes thinking of sex around me ALL the time? How can he appreciate emotional connection and intimacy with me if every time we're affectionate he's thinking of ow he's going to get me into bed?

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

He would turn me on a lot more if he didn't do the EXACT same things every time he pursues sex with me.

Maybe that's his passiveness again. Just like he's shy about voicing his opinion and about making decisions, worried that he'll say the wrong thing or decide the wrong thing, in the bedroom he sticks to a boring routine based on what worked in the past because he's afraid of taking the initiative and possibly doing the wrong thing.

worried that he'll say the wrong thing or decide the wrong thing, in the bedroom he sticks to a boring routine based on what worked in the past because he's afraid of taking the initiative and possibly doing the wrong thing.

Afraid so.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Yes Minivanman I asked you to read this because I think perhaps you'll be able to relate.... or at least perhaps see a bit of what I imagine is your wifes perspective:

Hi BD! Wow. Sorry for getting in on this so late in the game, but I just now stumbled upon your post. Mine's going to be a long reply, but hopefully it will give you some insight.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

For him, sex = passion and intimacy. For me, passion and intimacy = sex. Make sense? Dictionary says "passion is a strong or extravagant fondness, enthusiasm, or desire for anything: a passion for music." For him, the sexual act itself makes him FEEL passion and intimacy. Therefore, if we don't have sex, he feels no passion and intimacy. For me, passion and intimacy are developed outside the bedroom and carry over into the bedroom. Therefore, if we don't have passion and intimacy outside of sex, I feel none during sex.

My wife and I have bought into the whole "love languages" thing. For me, my love language is physical touch (sex is a subset of that). Her love language is communication. So I feel loved when I'm in physical contact with her, and she feels loved when we talk, especially intimate conversations. It's just two different ways of having a connection with someone. No love language is better or worse than another. I think your BF's love language is sex, but seems to not include the larger set of physical touch. That's a difference between him and me. I LOVE to cuddle, caress, spoon, kiss (wish my wife did, she hates kissing).

My point is that people have different ways of feeling loved. My wife and I have begun to understand that we need to attend to each other's needs. Even though to have her initiate sex with me is in my view the ultimate expression of love, I've learned that I can't expect her to feel the same way if I initiate sex with her. It's not her love language. I need to talk to her, actively and attentively, for her to feel loved.

That being said, your BF obviously has a strong sex drive and at the same time does seem to have problems with intimacy. I'll get back to that below.

(someone else said) he may feel he needs to make the "best" use of that time by having sex - to him the most enjoyable and intimate thing he can do with you.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

If that's so, I find it sad. Because going through the motions in the act of sex is not intimate to me. You can have sex with anyone. Men on a daily basis see women they are sexually attracted to. It's not like I'm "special" in that aspect because he wants to sleep with me. Sex is only intimate (to me) when you share INTIMACY with the person you're doing it with. Sex doesn't become intimate to me just because it's happening. And IF his perspective is that sex is the most enjoyable intimate thing he can share with me, then like I said, I find it sad. One day I'll be old, (hopefully) and I want to be with someone that's my best friend, that I share intimacy and emotional bond with....and I'd venture to guess that at some point in my life (and his), sex will not be top priority.........and if that's all we've ever had regarding intimacy, then where will our relationship be then?

(and in a later post)

The thing for me is that I don't think the intimacy and closeness of your relationship should be based on sex. What if I go through a medical problem and can't have sex? What if he one day suffers from ED and can't have sex? Then if to him, sex = passion & intimacy, then where does that leave us? There has to be some established intimacy between two people OUTSIDE of sex. And you won't establish that intimacy if every form of physical contact means sex. IMO.

Are you my wife in disguise? This is almost verbatim what she said to me in a couples session recently. Our counselor answered for me. She reminded my wife that my love language is not just sex but physical touch. If sex becomes impossible, there will always be snuggling, holding hands, kissing (if she can stand it), etc.

But it seems for your BF that kind of non-sexual intimacy has not developed. I have an idea about how to develop it, and I’ll get to it near the end of my post.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's "bad" for wanting sex. I just don't think that I should be expected to drop my drawers and have sex everytime he touches me and every time I try to show affection to him.

But did your relationship start off like that? In the beginning did you have sex at every opportunity? If you did, like most couples, then you created a foundation of sex in your relationship, and now you are tearing down that very foundation. This seems to be a common theme for women. Once the novelty of the relationship wears off, the woman changes the terms of the relationship and the man ends up confused at best, or hurt, betrayed, and rejected at worst (that would be me). Maybe I'm wrong about that, but if I’m not then you need to see that you contributed, at least in part, to this problem.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

It's the passion I want. Anyone can have sex. He can have sex with LOTS of girls. But he can't have passion, love, deep emotion, burning desire, comfortability, bonding etc with LOTS of girls. Same for me. I can have sex with anyone who's willing. But I won't have that BOND with just anyone, that passion. They are two VERY different things to me. And I can't feel that passion when the goal for everything is sex.

You can't go to the grocery store without getting stared at, you get "hollered" at, you get "Da****mn!!!!!"'s when you pass someone by, you get "HEY GIRRRRRRRL!"'s, you get "ohh sexy mama!!!!".*HONK HONK* ...So when I deal with those feelings daily, and then go home and even though he's not saying the same things the strangers say, he's making me feel the same way they do by acting like every move I make is a sexual one...

Clearly you are an extremely physically attractive person so sex can happen whenever you want with whomever you want. Not the same for me and probably him too. Throughout my adult life finding someone who would have sex with me has been nearly impossible. Before I met my wife, I'd gone 4 years without sex, and not because I wanted to. I was dating during those years, but not one of those women would even consider getting naked with me. Now, combine that with the fact that my love language is physical touch/sex, and you begin to see that when a woman finds it in her heart to have sex with me, I see it as the ultimate gift. NOTHING is more flattering or more intimate. It is such a difficult thing to achieve! If I could get all the sex I needed whenever I wanted it, the intimacy of sex would diminish (but never go away) and other forms of intimacy would become more important than they were. My love language would still be physical touch, just not as strong.

Originally Posted by Beautiful Disaster

And then IN the "bedroom" he's quite submissive, rarely ever makes a sound so then I'm left going "where is all this passion you say is involved in sex?........SURE you're not just equating getting off with passion because it FEELS good?"

My wife told me recently that sex always seems to be about me and my pleasure and not about her. Part of that feeling she gets is no doubt due to the fact that I'm concentrating with all my effort to keep from finishing too soon. It takes a supreme effort to control myself, and any extra touching or expression from either of us will just set me off. Maybe he's doing the same thing?

You say after sex you get up and go about your business... no cuddling, etc. I think that is an opportunity to have non-sexual intimacy. Don't just walk away. Snuggle. Spoon. Just lay there next to each other and talk. Do those other acts of intimacy that make you feel connected but do it AFTER sex. See how he responds. For me, that is the perfect time because I feel sexually satisfied and am quite willing to have a meaningful conversation with my wife without the distraction of feeling horny. Plus, I'll be in a good (no GREAT) mood!

I have been in your BF's shoes. I know what it's like to be that horny all the time (not anymore, I'm too old now). And to find someone who could match my sex drive, at least at first, was beyond thrilling. Of course it didn't last for her, but rather than explain what she was feeling and try to work it out, she remained silent for 20 years and left me feeling resentful in a sexless marriage.

My advice would be to explain to him again what you've told us, but put some accountability on yourself this time. Try to get him to understand that you may have over-expressed your sexuality in the beginning (if that is indeed what happened). That you were responding to a new experience, and that what once was flattering and exciting is now too much to bear. Explain that sex for just sex itself is not intimate for you. He needs to understand your love language, and you need to understand his.

I also feel that he does need to learn to be intimate without sex. That doesn't mean he needs to replace sexual intimacy with some other kind of intimacy, it just means that he should learn to be intimate non-sexually as well as sexually. That is a major difference between your BF and me. I can feel intimate without sex, but sex is the MOST intimate act for me, and the most important one. To get him started, as I said before, engage him after he’s sexually satisfied. Don’t end sex with moving on to your daily activities. Keep him around while his sexual appetite is satiated. His mind will be more open to other forms of intimacy. Do this enough and over time you might find he’s more open to non-sexual intimacy even when he’s horny.

So it’s been a month or more since your last post. How’s it going with the BF now?

Take care, and thanks for thinking of me.