Frozen in Place

**BDB** · 09-03-2010 10:36 AM

I need advice.

My wife is a wonderful person who is beautiful and the love of my life. We have four incredible children and have been married for 15yrs after dating for 5yrs through college. She dated around before we met and had several sexual partners including a few one night stands, she says driven from by low self-esteem. I did very little dating not seeing the point in wasting my time until I met the right person; I married as a virgin. As like most, our relationship started hot and heavy but after a couple years it cooled off. Around the turning point in year three she had to have vaginal warts removed for the second time (the first before we were dating), a gift courtesy of one of her one night stands. I made a big deal about it, the fact it hadn't been disclosed before, and afterward things changed.

For the past 18yrs her libido steadily dropped. She doesn't initiate any kind of physical contact from holding hands to kissing but says we need more. She says she enjoys sex thoroughly but I'm left to guess when it's appropriate. She wants spontaneity but "no" is the answer much more often than "yes". She doesn't masturbate but is fine with me doing it, and even occasionally masturbating together or stimulating each other. She is the only person I fantasize about. She has never been comfortable talking about sex. She has flirted with anal stimulation, even asking me to focus on that area, but curls her face up and claims it does nothing for her when the subject comes up. In fact she'll feign ignorance that it was part of the play. She's open to oral, vaginal, mammary sex; she'll try different positions and locations; she loves to make love in water. She has claimed that all I think about is sex, all I want is sex, and I've defended myself that all I want to do is make love to her. She has told me she doesn't think about sex, rarely if ever has a dream about sex, and doesn't want sex often because she is too tired. When we have sex it's great, but it's only a couple times a month. She invests nothing in our relationship other than just being. I guess I'm kidding myself that we have a relationship, but she claims to love me. She has battled depression and adult ADD.

In April we had a great discussion in which I realized that my behavior toward her for the past 10yrs has been increasingly hostile and negative. Now a large part of that has been reflective of the deterioration of our physical intimacy, but I can only change me. I have always been big on self-improvement. I apologized and have dramatically changed my behavior which has been noticed and commented on by my children. I get very little support or feedback from her, unless solicited, and even then it's a sentence or two. The only piece of feedback she has ever changed a behavior about is when I mentioned she was being kind of selfish in bed in that when we had sex it was all about her, every time. She asked me to get a vasectomy after our 4th child and I responded that I was more comfortable using condoms and birth control because of how rarely we have sex. She responded that as the children get older she'll be more into us and physical intimacy. My experience was very painful, a memory that has stayed with me to this day. I regret it more than anything else I have ever done in my life.

During a discussion yesterday she revealed that she now masturbates. When I tried to learn more; how often, when, etc. she froze solid as she does on most discussions about sex and said it was private.

I was devastated. I immediately had feelings I could not control. I felt deceived and manipulated.

I know I have to accept her privacy. I know the issue is in my reaction. But what I am struggling with is how it's affecting me. I couldn't sleep last night. I don't want to talk to her. I certainly don't want to be touched by her. It's not this one thing, it's the whole of sex.

Now, knowing she can satisfy herself, I feel it's time to put the sex discussion back on the table and explain my side, that I'm not satisfied, that I'm tired of climbing the mountain each time, having to align the sun, moon, and stars just to make love. That since it's obviously of so little importance to her, I think we'd be better off with out it. I'd rather not make love at all than do it once a month and only when I push for it. Separate beds, separate rooms. It would be tough but my hope is that it will take physical intimacy off the table, or spur something in her. Then when the kids leave I'll ask for a divorce. I won't cheat on her. But I cannot live like this without knowing there's an end in sight, even if it's years away. I'll just invest my time and energy into my children.

I'm so horribly unhappy at home with my wife, but I'm so head over heals in love with her.

**WildChild** · 09-03-2010 11:45 AM

Oh my. Where to start?
Despite all the sexually overt talk women are still made to feel very 'wrong' for being sexual beings. It is embedded in our culture, language, religions and attitudes. You may have unknowing planted the seeds for this a long time ago. I can say so because I've been there.

You may not like reading this but I'm not saying it to be mean or to bash you, but honestly, to clarify the progression that can occur, so hopefully you might find some answers on how to heal this. I've been through a version of it and know many other women who have as well.

You were a virgin when you married.
She wasn't.
You were 'good' and 'saved' yourself for marriage.
She didn't.
You were 'clean'.
She (? unknowng) had an STI.
You had no real clue sexually when you married - you might think you did but if you were a virgin you didin't really.
She was sexually experienced, probably knew what she liked, didn't like and very probably has done some things she still hasn't done with you. She was sexually open and willing to explore but isn't any longer.
Why?
Because, conscious or not, that would or she feared it would, bring a negative response at some level. It would make her even less 'good'. If she started off with low self esteem your response, ex: "a gift courtesy of one of her one night stands. I made a big deal about it, the fact it hadn't been disclosed before, and afterward things changed", made that low self esteem drop lower. It may have been a gradual process that started not only with you but with societal responses to female sexuality. But you unwittingly delivered the death blow. A man who has many partners is 'experienced' and a 'stud'. A woman who has many partners is a ho (and that's not short for horny).

At some point the balance tipped and she shut down defensively. It may have not been a clearly thought out response but essentially it was: if being sexually experienced, enjoying and initiating sex and being willing to do anything sexually other than the missionary posistion when initiated by my husband, makes me less 'good' and less valued, I'll go the other way and become so 'good' that I don't even think about sex. If my sexuality can't be celebrated and my experience can't be a doorway to better sex with the man I love, then I will lose both.

Simply put, you can't have it both ways. She can't be open, experienced and joyfully sexual AND an untouched virgin who is really 'good' by societal and religious standards. Did you think she was a virgin before you married and only learned she wasn't when you learned about the STI - which she may have not known about previously? Or did you know she was sexually experienced and thought it wasn't an issue but it really was? And it became more so upon learning she had an STI? Either way you and the fact that she was lovingly committed to you made your response unbearably painful to her. She shut down to save herself. But she is a sexual being and her masterbation shows that hasn't vanished. You aren't emotionally safe to express that with right now.

Counselling may help if you get a good one. They are rare, some counselors are far more damaging than helpful, many are just kind of OK, you need a good one who can work to help without making either of you wrong or adding more judgemental stuff to the mix.

It is possible this could be healed but it will take both of you being willing to forgive and to make an effort to rebuild the relationship. Being defensive, accusatory, demanding, resentful of having gotten a vasctomy, or engaging in any other self focused behavior will doom the effort. That doesn't mean it's all on you but she is deeply wounded and has been for pretty much the entire marriage and maybe from prior as well. It won't serve either of you to go into the past and dwell there but you will have to visit it to see and understand what is there because it's what brought you to your present place. If you don't want to just go in circles you have to make sure you learn some new ways to interact.

If you don't believe me, print this out and ask her gently to read it.

**Day Tripper** · 09-03-2010 12:02 PM

Wild Child, that was such an excellent response. I can't help thinking either how four children could drain a woman so much more than it can a man. Plus, the vasectomy request was a positive step for her and it was shot down. She probably doesn't want to even come close to having another child. Not saying this is the case, but, it could add to the dynamics of what is happening. It seems to me that there is very little passion in the relationship and how to ignite the spark may be the key to your survival Bob. It certainly starts with communication, but, you can do other things too, and if she doesn't respond, then try changing for the better (not to say you're not a good man), but, become a better man. Take very good care of yourself (mentally and physically) and look for ways to be there for her where you weren't before. Surprise her with tickets to a show or do things you know she loves. If you love her, this will be easy. But, above all, find ways to communicate. Take heed of Wild Child's response. She may definitely be onto something.

Day Tripper

**BDB** · 09-03-2010 02:29 PM

I agree that I did quite a bit of damage with my comment on the STD. In all honesty I didn't know what I was doing, I was very immature, and I have regretted it for the past 15yrs. I've apologized, but I know there is a difference between being sorry and rewinding history. I wasn't judgmental on her prior experience; it was explained upfront. In fact I lied about my experience and only several years later came clean as a virgin; surely that didn't help. I am not claiming innocence or being a victim. My issue was that by not telling me she had a STD she left me open to one of the most communicable and hard to eradicate forms which can take years to manifest. She knew she had it; she had the vaginal warts removed once before however they returned which is always a possibility. I felt it was dishonest not to inform me and my immediate concern was we had some other issues and breaking up was a real possibility.

She actually wanted more children but agreed she couldn't handle having more, so the end of the line was mutual. I had the vasectomy, I just wish I had waited a year. What I left out is that she hates the feeling of condoms during sex and doesn't like being on the pill. I can understand both, but if you're only having sex once, maybe twice a month, a condom seems reasonable.

I think you are right. At first she said she shut down because all "that stuff" happened during her low self-esteem phase and she credits me with building/restoring her self-esteem which underscores your point about her leaving that "life" behind; having to be one or the other. Then it changed to being exhausted by the children. Now our kids are a bit older but she fills her time with other things, but somehow she's still exhausted all the time. I make suggestions, she says she wants to think about it, and then she just never responds. I encourage her to go out with her friends. I encouraged her to get involved in other activities. I changed my work-life to be home almost every night. It's been over a year since she walked up to me and said "I love you"; she'll only say it if I say it first.

Counselling was tried but didn't work because it degenerated into all the things I do wrong, remember I was being quite the jerk, and anything I'm displeased with or hurt by, the answer is "if you didn't x, I wouldn't y". So the only option left open for me was to change, which I try to, but I'm human. I know intellectually something you've damaged over 10yrs cannot be fixed in a few months, but it's hard to know you're doing the right thing without feedback. I certainly got feedback when I was doing the wrong thing.

Should I ask her if she wants out? Thinking through it all and reading your insights it's made me realize perhaps she's already emotionally checked out and just waiting for her body to follow. I'd hate to see it happen now for the kids sake, but I can't hold her hostage either. Could that be what she's trying to communicate but is afraid to broach?

**WildChild** · 09-03-2010 05:15 PM

Oooowe, not telling about an STI is a pretty big breach of trust.
It's hard to second guess what someone is thinking. She may be pretty much on autopilot. Does she work outside the home? If your kids are in school now, even a parttime job may help her be more focused.
Do the two of you ever have a date night? Or get away for a week end?
It sounds like several things need to happen; you need to rebuild both non-sexual and sexual intimacy, you both need to develop better communication methods, you need to put some fun into your relationship, you both need to revitalize your sexual energy which is also tied to your general joy of life.
Are you up for some homework?
It won't hurt and just might help.

Have you read John Gray's Mars and Venus books? You might want to read, Men, Women and Relationships and Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. He offers some excellent insight into the different ways women and men communicate and interpret things.
While I don't agree with her unilaterally, Mama Gena can be agreat one to help women revitalize and learn to 'keep it juicy'. She has several books and a web site.

I don't know what your beliefs are or faith, but I would suggest considering Kundalini yoga and some of tantric techniques such are sensory awakening. These may help the two you reconnect.