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    WFO
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    Default Expanding Our Reportiore...

    My wife is extremely constrained about what kinds of things she will do, or allow to be done in our intimacy. It is basically the standard position, with the lights out of course. When I have tried from the back, etc., she seems to conjure up all kinds of thoughts that are degrading to her - comparisons if you follow me. I have absolutely no intents or thought of anything like that. Basically her attitudes are always how she is not much good. I cannot break her of that. She grew up the youngest of three, where her sis was the oldest and was/is an overachiever. She is a VP at a major firm now, whereas my wife never finished college. SO what can I do to get her to loosen up a bit in our activities?

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    Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Array Allie602's Avatar
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    Make it seem more about her than about a bunch of acts you'd like to try out using her. View as a process that may take a while and you may have to approach things incrementally. Some women don't like the impersonal nature of some positions, I think you need to think about that. If it seems not too intimate than it may not be the type of thing you can do with her.

    Try to see things from her point of view and not just what will give you pleasure. If she thinks something is degrading, I don't think that will change. Besides, do you really want her to do things that make her feel degraded. Do you think you would get pleasure out of some act that all the while she feels degraded? That would not be intimate, your word.

    Let's say you want to do doggie. You can start by having sex in the spooning position then when she gets used to that may be with her on her stomach with a pillow under her pelvis. in both positions there is body contact maybe she would be willing to try doggie once she becomes accustomed to these positions but maybe not. I don't know if this is what you want of course.

    Please don't be insulted but the thing about some of the sex that "spices things up" is that it may not be geared towards satisfying women. Some are based on porn which is geared towards men. Some woman feel used when the sex is seems too much about the mans pleasure yet she is required to leave her comfort zone. I've herd it said that the woman should do it to please him because she loves. Also some men say it's not a big deal, but it may be a big deal to some women if it cost them too much in comfort.

    If you do try different things without getting her permission, going behind, you may meet with more resistance not less. After all she matters as much as you. That's something to think about.

    Did you know about her attitude about sex before you married? Why do you think she will become something she is not? If you married her because she was a good girl, she is acting true to form. If she tried to change you after you got married how would you feel. This is the person you married and she may never become adventurous because it's not her. She knows you married her for her virtue, you probably told her that. She knows your values and your feelings about female sexuality. Think of the things that you said on the subject and weigh it against the person you want her to turn into. she does not want to take a chance and do something that will make you stop respecting her.

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    WH Head Moderator Array WildChild's Avatar
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    I think Allie makes a good point. We've discussed before the catch 22 women run into with the expectation that they be good and 'pure' prior to marriage and then somehow turn into sexual dynamos after marriage. It rarely happens. The social and religious training and constraints that create the virgin/madonna prior to marriage do not vanish with the vows of marriage.

    You made a comment on another thread that reflects that you value this thinking;

    " I dated a girl about 30 years ago who tried lots of that stuff with me to get me to have sex with her, but I just flat was not ready to go down that road with her, or any other female, at that time. And had I been ready to go down that road with her, I would have made sure we tied the knot legally and spiritually in front of God and family in a church before I let her do that stuff. But then I wasn't letting her live with me either. If you are convinced he is serious about your long term relationship, ask yourself why you are doing all of those things to get him interested without him even giving you a ring first."

    You may, and I think rightly, understand that within marriage or a committed relationship there should be sexual openess between partners. But in our social/religious traditions the heavier onus is on women for failure to restrict sexuality and sexual behavior. The conditioning is often so strong and deep that overcoming it can be very difficult and it seems in some cases, impossible.

    Your wife is a 'good' woman and as such is not schooled in sex as a source of pleasure and truth be told is probably not entirely comfortable with it as anything but a duty or expectation of marriage. It really comes down to, you can't have it both ways - at least it rarely happens. Those members of our society who enforce the idea that prohibit sex in all it's forms prior to marriage (and in many forms after marriage) haven't got much of a concern with teaching a balanced view that would encourage a woman to be sexually open and adventurous in marriage.

    I can't offer a lot of advice on overcoming this because it isn't a belief system or thought pattern that I embrace. I'm not part of that culture and never really was. I know that there have been books on marital sex written from a religious perspective. Perhaps they would offer some perspectives that she can relate to? I'm sure we have other members who have dealt with this. I know there are verses in the old testament that are quite sensual and even sexual (other than the lists of begats) perhaps those would provide some encouragement?
    Last edited by WildChild; 10-08-2010 at 07:37 PM.
    We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer

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    WFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildChild View Post
    I think Allie makes a good point. We've discussed before the catch 22 women run into with the expectation that they be good and 'pure' prior to marriage and then somehow turn into sexual dynamos after marriage. It rarely happens. The social and religious training and constraints that create the virgin/madonna prior to marriage do not vanish with the vows of marriage.

    You made a comment on another thread that reflects that you value this thinking;

    " I dated a girl about 30 years ago who tried lots of that stuff with me to get me to have sex with her, but I just flat was not ready to go down that road with her, or any other female, at that time. And had I been ready to go down that road with her, I would have made sure we tied the knot legally and spiritually in front of God and family in a church before I let her do that stuff. But then I wasn't letting her live with me either. If you are convinced he is serious about your long term relationship, ask yourself why you are doing all of those things to get him interested without him even giving you a ring first."

    You may, and I think rightly, understand that within marriage or a committed relationship there should be sexual openess between partners. But in our social/religious traditions the heavier onus is on women for failure to restrict sexuality and sexual behavior. The conditioning is often so strong and deep that overcoming it can be very difficult and it seems in some cases, impossible.

    Your wife is a 'good' woman and as such is not schooled in sex as a source of pleasure and truth be told is probably not entirely comfortable with it as anything but a duty or expectation of marriage. It really comes down to, you can't have it both ways - at least it rarely happens. Those members of our society who enforce the idea that prohibit sex in all it's forms prior to marriage (and in many forms after marriage) haven't got much of a concern with teaching a balanced view that would encourage a woman to be sexually open and adventurous in marriage.

    I can't offer a lot of advice on overcoming this because it isn't a belief system or thought pattern that I embrace. I'm not part of that culture and never really was. I know that there have been books on marital sex written from a religious perspective. Perhaps they would offer some perspectives that she can relate to? I'm sure we have other members who have dealt with this. I know there are verses in the old testament that are quite sensual and even sexual (other than the lists of begats) perhaps those would provide some encouragement?
    I think you are right in that many people who have been brought up in a good Christian home never had any preparation, if you will, for the physical union that comes as a part of marriage. We have attended a number of marriage conferences where at some point husbands and wives are separated for the talk about sex. The ladies leading the wives discussion seem to always be older and I suspect they really don't brief the topic (sex) as anything but "As a wife you have certian duties" kind of thing. But my wife can find criticism anywhere, thus, her difficulty with her perceptions of my thoughts about alternate methods. That seems to be her spiritual gift. I don't know which poster above commented on the Biblical aspects of it, but a passage I'd like some female interpretation of is 1 Corinthians 7:4.
    Last edited by WFO; 10-10-2010 at 08:13 PM.

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    WFO
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    Just to give a perspective on what I am dealing with, I take Runner's World magazine, which always seems to have a picture of a young female runner on the cover. I don't care about the cover, I like the mag because it has information about good food and diet and workout information for people who want to be healthy and fit. Well, my wife seems to be threatened even by that picture on the cover. What's a guy to do?!

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    WH Head Moderator Array WildChild's Avatar
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    Just did a quick search and found what looks like it might be a good book for you: A Celebration of Sex: A Guide to Enjoying God's Gift of Married Sexual Pleasure (A Christian Couple's Manual).
    Why not check into it?
    We can only learn to love by loving. - Iris Mudoch, British writer

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    VIP Member Array lonestar's Avatar
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    Some girls just feel really insecure about some positions. I, for example, hate when I'm on top and he's laying down and he can see everything. I feel a little insecure about my boobs flopping around everywhere- it's hard to feel sexy even when he tells me he loves it. I do it for a little bit, but usually not for long; he makes me feel good which is the reason I will do it in the first place. You just have to make her feel comfortable. Talk to her.
    vivre bien

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    Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Array Allie602's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    Just to give a perspective on what I am dealing with, I take Runner's World magazine, which always seems to have a picture of a young female runner on the cover. I don't care about the cover, I like the mag because it has information about good food and diet and workout information for people who want to be healthy and fit. Well, my wife seems to be threatened even by that picture on the cover. What's a guy to do?!
    What is your background and are your, you and your wife's value systems the same? Has she always been as insecure as she is now? If not, can you pin point any occurrence that might have made her more secure than usual? Pregnancy, weight gain? Does she sense your dissatisfaction with her, do you complain to her frequently? How many times do you express your love and appreciation of the things she does to show you her her love. What's the proportions of complaints to expressos of love.

    It is interesting that you bring up yet another problem that she has but you failed to address the issue of the woman you selected as a mate. By that omission, I am not sure you have taken full responsibility for your choice of a mate. Are you sorry you chose your wife, if so why and if you want someone different now, what do you want.

    Are there enough good things about her that you can overlook her faults? Is it possible that there is some attitude that you have that incites her insecurity? Do you make a sincere effort to reassure her of your love and appreciation of the good things she does for you? Or do you show her dissatisfaction with the things she does not do for you? For instance, she does have sex with you, many men cannot get their wives to have sex and they would be glad for the intimacy that you enjoy.

    I am not trying to pick you apart. I think you make yourself happy or unhappy, nothing will ever be perfect there is no perfect woman out there for you. If you decide to be happy, you face the problems in your marriage with love and understanding, instead of expressions of dissatisfaction and unhappiness. The change in your attitude may make it possible for her to change. Even if it doesn't, you decrease your reactivity to everything she does that is wrong for you she and appreciate the things she does.

    Think about this, we live in a consumer society and we have endless choices in commodities. We also think that we have endless choices in people. if there are problems of any type, we throw people over for a new and better model and when that one is not perfect it's on to the next and the cycle goes on. We trade enough and then wise up and see that we had the best and let it go for foolish reasons. So your attitude may well be a reflection of the society we live in, you have internalized the attitudes that work against being happy and satisfied because you are always looking for better than what you have.

    My advice, decide to be happy, satisfied and grateful. If you lost every thing you have now, like many Americans who were very successful before the recession, you would long for the days that your wife was insecure.

    You could have a son fighting in Afghanistan who has had the misfortune of a traumatic brain injury or lost of a limb, or you could be a middle management corporate executive that has been out of work since the recession and lost a Macmansion to foreclose and whose wife has left him, or your wife could decide she is so unhappy that she wants to divorce you.

    I am not minimizing your problems or wishing you ill, but I'll bet you have all the makings of a happy life but with some ligit. problems and concerns. But, I see a way for you to be happy and I don't see why you are not. It would go a long way if you take responsibility for your choices, temper you dissatisfaction, and appreciate the people around you. Concentrate on making the woman you chose for a wife happy too, she deserves it, she has been true to form, a good woman.

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    Silver Contributor 100+ Posts Array Allie602's Avatar
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    I'd like to add something else - It's telling that you say "what's a guy to do", like your status as a man gives you the right to be dismissive of her insecurity. Only you know if you are deliberately attempting to upset your wife. A kind man might not make a big deal about this but just read the mag at work. Why should you put yourself out? Just because. You gave a very complete description of the runner on the magazine as young, do you give your wife a hint that she is not?

    I feel for her, I know how difficult it is for women, the demands for impossible standards of beauty just to keep men interested makes women unreasonable sometimes. A sensitive man recognizes the pressure that this society put's on women to be perfect and would reassure her at every opportunity. A smart man, who wants her to display herself for his sexual enjoyment, would hardly make her think that she doesn't measure up to a young runner on a magazine. I don't know if this is your situation.

    Your first post was that you wanted her to make major changes in her basic nature because you are sexually bored with her, but you can't accommodate her insecurity over a magazine by making an effort to not upset her. It's not important to you but it is to her. You don't have to put yourself out to make her comfortable of course.

    You want her to put herself out big time for your pleasure and excitement. If you can't accommodate her in the small things that are important to her, unreasonable though they may be, then I am certain you understand that she does not have to hop around and put on a performance for your pleasure.

  10. #10
    WFO
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    Allie, I don't know what got you so stirred up about this. There's a lot in your posts that doesn't come across as somethign I intended to communicate. I was just asking for a little help. Some different ideas. As I said above, the basic Christian model for courtship doesn't allow much experience with your partner sexually prior to marriage. I think within that model there is room for some frank discussion though, which I would do if I had it to do over again, not that I'd want to go down that road. We all learn as we go along. My sweet wife seems to have a self esteem issue as the youngest sibling (no college degree) but with her older sis' being a VP for a major corporation. And my wife has always been overweight. I am very sensitive to her feelings on that issue, to the point that in over 21 years of marriage I never complained about it to her. She finally got so fed up with her struggles every day - fatigue, knees hurting, hips hurting, arthritis starting, etc. things all related to obesity - she went and got on a medically supervised program and has made great progress. Now I am not much of a talker, but she seems to derive ALL of her motivation AND self esteem from what OTHERS say about her. She learned that bad habit from her dear departed mother. A very dangerous recipe if you ask me. We should be mostly concenred about what our Savior would think, and as Christian people know He loves us greatly. I just don't understand the issues with various positions and acts within Christian marriage context, as long as both parties are comfortable. I would never want either of us to be hurt or hurting during anthing. I don't see where the Bible has any resrictions on what maried couples do "in the marriage bed". So where do all these Christian folks come p wth these constraints from? I would love for my wife to use my body for her pleasure, in more ways than just the standard one. I just can't even get her do do that.

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