A question I have, picked up from another (closed) thread....

[Tod121]

Hi,
Does "low self-esteem" and "social anxiety" mean you are more likely to have an affair? I am reasonably confident with most things but my wife hates socialising and seems to have a faily low self-esteem about herself since having kids and loosing her figure (Before you ask, I often comment how good she looks (with or without clothes) but she never seems to believe me) and I know that she is a bored house wife with fantasies of day-time sex and as I work 9-5 I worry about her hooking up with a single dad when she drops the kids off at school. She talks about Jon's dad said this and Jon's dad said that, even though she feelly admits hating talking to people. This guy in particular suggested to us that next time our son goes to a party my wife should bring him for a change (innocent comment but gets me thinking) and I have seen him chatting up the other Mums at school. My wife shows very little interest in sex (we do it once or twice every 6-8 weeks), when we do make love we both seem to really enjoy it and she does tend to orgasm and so irritated we dont do it more often. We are both 40, I excercise 3 times a week and stay in reasonable condition, commited to our family life and only tend to venture out to work so dont otherwise abandon her while Im off to the pub, etc and I do plenty of things around the house and with the kids, etc. My wife has NO interest in going back to work and in fact if brought up can often lead to an arguement. I have read many threads on here about doing nice things which dont lead to sex, which I have tried but as yet, dont lead us to more frequent sex. I'm sure you can spot a few things here to discuss....

[WildChild]

People inclined to cheat will take advantage of any opportunity, those not inclined cannot be seduced into it and won't go looking for it.
How much non sexual touch do you do? Try leaving sex out of your mind, I can't but pretend you can. The thing is, people (male people specifically) tend to get into a pattern of only touching a woman if they want sex. You may argue that if you touch her, you want sex. She needs to really truly feel that you value and care for her in your life for something other than housework and sex. You might feel that you express that but SHE doesn't feel it, it doesn't really count. Try things like giving her a little neck and scalp massage in passing with no attempt to follow up with anything else. Give her a passionate kiss before you leave for work, no possibility of trying for sex. Tell her you are kind of tired but would like to snuggle and watch a movie with her.

If you have lounger chairs, ditch them. They are made for one person. When the last guy I was seeing got one I knew our snuggle time was over and it was. He was happy and comfy in that chair and the only touching associated with it was if he wanted a bj. Get sex as a goal out of the picture for a while and make intimacy your focus. Look into her eyes, specifically left eye to left eye. Focus on her when you are talking. Laugh together. Actually Listen, not just to her words but to what she is saying. Women are verbal processors sometimes we just need for you to listen - no fixing, no action, the listening may just be the fix.

When was the last time you picked her up spun her around and kissed her?

Any idea why she is so resistant to getting out of the house and having some kind of employment? It would probably do her a world of good.

[oxy-moron]

Hi Tod
Try implementing WCs suggestions.
In my opinion your wife is an isolator and will have an associated tendency to avoid intimate communication. This will mean she will probably struggle to bond with other females. It will be easier for her to form friendships with males. ( Not necessarily sexual)
Ultimately her attitude will cause her to have a low level of the bonding hormone Oxytocin.
WCs suggestions sound like a guidebook on raising Oxytocin levels.
Perhaps the first place to start is get into some non sexual massage- make it regular - every couple of days and possibly the best option is foot massage.
Once your own Oxytocin level is boosted you will become more amorous.
Both of your Oxytocin levels will rise together because of the physical contact.
Scientists have noted a mated pair will have matching Oxytocin levels.
It will take a couple of months for her Oxytocin level to rise.
Give it a try.

[Tod121]

Thank you for your replies so far. To respond to some of your points, I gave her a neck massage just the other day and it did go down well and it was only an in-passing massage as she said she had a tough day as we were walking through the hallway. It is natural though that the more you touch the more you want to do and let your hands wander a bit, is it really a crime? BUT I behaved and kept it very simple. I have tried to massage her neck before and have been brushed aside saying she was busy. Rubbing her feet is a no-no as she hates her feet touched. I tried to give her a passionate kiss before work yesterday but she turned it into a quick peck. These snubs wind me up, especially when I get one after another, day after day, so unfortunately I do tend to give up with the view that if being nice doesnt work then what does. We do snuggle on the sofa on occasion but in the last few months she sits on our 3 seater sofa and covers the other 2 seats with with her needle work that she does as a hoby, so I have little option other than sit myself down on our 2 seater.
Again, just this week she was having a rant about her "crappy" day and I remembered previous suggestions about listening and fight the need to "fix", so I did just that but it is incredibly hard to properly listen to whats been said and NOT offer advice or offer constructive comments. I can just sit there and nod and say "oh yeah", "oh no" and "really", etc but is this helpful? As for picking her up and spinning her, you are right if you assumed this is a rare thing to do BUT I did do exactly that a couple of months ago and it was a bit of a laugh.
I will try to indulge in a regular massage routine but with a busy life-style (I am often out of the picture either dropping off or collecting our daughters from their friends or clubs or I am reading to our son (who takes forever to go to sleep (yes we have got into a bad habbit))). Do you suggest we stop what we are doing to have these massage sessions or could she carry on doing her needlework and I could stand behind her and the sofa and rub her neck? Would this still generate the right atmosphere?

[oxy-moron]

There is more than one way to boost oxytocin- I choose massage because I love doing it and I think that most like to receive it. One of the research articles used 15 minutes of massage to boost the participants oxytocin before testing.
I recommend you do your own research by googling Oxytocin.
Other things that will boost it are
- reminiscing happy memories together.
-Casual touch-Quick back strokes or pats that last a couple of seconds
-Compliments
- Eye contact
-Patting your pets will also help boost your own levels.

It doesnt matter if she is doing something else while you are massaging or if she falls asleep. Falling asleep is a sign that you are relaxing her and this will be due to oxytocin.
She will be most receptive to massage around ovulation.
Try getting her to massage you- buy some Shea butter (or similar)and start using that.

Also you can raise your own Oxytocin and this will lift hers- Scientists have noted that mammal pairs will have matching Oxytocin levels. ( A high Oxytocin rat added to a cage of stressed rats will calm them all down) It appears that Oxytocin is somehow transmitted.
Research out of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill discovered that happily married women quickly released a dose of oxytocin when asked to think about their husbands. Daydream about her and this will raise your levels This will make you behave differently towards her as well.-In ways that will boost oxytocin.

Think of Oxytocin as a bank account- when the account is nearly empty it will be bad for your relationship. Make daily investments and it will soon build up.

I dont however think that you will get back anything beyond what you had in your first year- so if she didn't want intimate contact back then- maybe she will never want it.

[WildChild]

. It is natural though that the more you touch the more you want to do and let your hands wander a bit, is it really a crime?

No one says its a crime and it is quite natural but while you are trying to recharge the relationship its not a good idea. Keep in mind that part of what you are doing is showing her that you care about HER and not just sex with her.

These snubs wind me up, especially when I get one after another, day after day, so unfortunately I do tend to give up with the view that if being nice doesnt work then what does.

This is not touch here + kiss now = sex You have look at this as a long term project, you don't build the roof and then hoist it up one side at a time to build the walls. You have the foundation, that is your marriage and family but the intimate relationship needs constant maintenance. If you look at your relationship like a house, if it needs exterior painting you could just start slapping paint on the sides but if you want it last and really look good, you will examine it and scrape the areas that are peeling. You will use caulking to seal it where there are gaps, you may replace a few boards here and there, or have to rip out a whole section that didn't hold up and replace it. Then you will prime it and then after the primer is dry you will paint. If you cut corners or skip steps you may regret it later. Now sometimes you just have a disaster house and need to get out of it but often times it's just that people get into the habit of the quick fix and defer doing the full job then they need a good contractor (relationship counselor). Try to think of this as doing the job right? That takes some time.

Again, just this week she was having a rant about her "crappy" day and I remembered previous suggestions about listening and fight the need to "fix", so I did just that but it is incredibly hard to properly listen to whats been said and NOT offer advice or offer constructive comments. I can just sit there and nod and say "oh yeah", "oh no" and "really", etc but is this helpful?

A man may not find it helpful and it may not feel like it is being helpful - but speaking as a woman - believe me, it is. You just have to take our word for it.

.
Do you suggest we stop what we are doing to have these massage sessions or could she carry on doing her needlework and I could stand behind her and the sofa and rub her neck? Would this still generate the right atmosphere?

Yes this would be excellent. You might ask her occasionally, "my shoulder is a little stiff, could you massage it a bit for me?" "could you rub my lower back, it a bit sore?" That gets her touching you with no expectations. Other things you can do are cooking together, taking a walk and holding hands or slip her hand over your arm. Its the little things that let her feel connected and intimate that can make a difference. Is this going to work with every relationship, every time? No. But we've had men here before who've tried it and came back and said it worked. So it won't hurt and it might just help, give it a try?

[Hopeless Dork]

I think the only time low-self esteem could possibly correlate with , maybe not cheating.. but it being a lot more tempting ... is when a person is down on themselves AND their S.O is too. By that I mean If a woman is feeling insecure about her looks and her signficant other doesn't compliment her, doesn't tell her she is sexy or beautiful... and she feels like a peice of furnture in the house to him -- when some random man pays her attention, compliments her... makes her feel desirable -- it may have more of an effect on her than it would a woman that feels good about herself, feels wanted and attractive to her S.O, etc.

Does it mean they will cheat? No. Does it mean they may end up paying more attention to the people that notice them... very likely so. Deciding to cheat on a committed relationship is a character issue of its own , not related to self esteem, or satisfaction in a relationship ... those with character will work on their relationship or end it before breaking promises where others will want more cake whether or not they are already full of it.

I'd never cheat on my boyfriend, its not my way. But there was a time in our relationship when I'd see his porn on the computer of supermodels, where he wasn't noticing how I looked... etc... and when guys would compliment me, notice me, hit on me, etc... it had much more of an effect on me -- like it validated me as a sexy woman..and the idea of being with someone else that actually thought i was HOT... was becoming more appealing to me than it should have felt. But instead of acting on that or disolving my relationship to act on that -- I told him how I was feeling, and there was just a lot of misscommunication/misunderstanding. He's come to understand just how important it is to my happiness to feel special to him, to have his attention...

And jump to now and I never log on to his computer to see some skimpy model, he always compliments me and touches me and makes me feel like the prettiest girl in the room when we go out and guess what? When guys notice me, while I still appreciate feeling attractive to others, it doesn't have the same affect... I already feel validated as a sexy woman to my boyfriend -- I am not seeking that validation from anyone else.

[oxy-moron]

Thank you WC and HD- it is so good to get glimpses from a female perspective.

[oxy-moron]

Double post sorry

[Tod121]

HD, thank you for addressing the low self esteem side of things, makes perfect sense, just hope my lady will think along the same lines as you do. What about the times when a man compliments his wife and she rejects these compliments, would this then tie in with WC and Oxy's suggestions about buidling up these comments and non-sexual touches to build a stronger bond. I have been making a greater effort and focusing on her and not so much with doing things around the house to help her and I have felt we are much happier at the moment, more smiles and much closer in general (also, sex 3 times in 4 weeks! A big improvement and still very promising for the days to come ) I came home from a crappy day at work yesterday, she asked me how the day went, I started to find the words to moan but she hugged and kissed me, instantly lifting my mood and I said it didnt matter now, I was home and happy again and didnt feel the need to winge! So we are lifting each other and really clicking at the moment. I say at the moment because my wife will lapse into a routine (every morning at least!) of shouting and loosing it with the kids and then with me. I often agree with what she is shouting at them about but cant stand her screaming at them at the top of her voice, she doesnt enjoy it, none of us do and we all end up getting out of the house as quickly as possible often with slammed doors, etc. I would say this is one of the key factures which causes great tension in the house. She will tell me to tell them off or hurry them up but I do, with out loosing it but this isnt enough for her, she seems to want me to shout and scream as well, which I will if really pushed but then I am on the war-path and in a shitty mood when I get to work.