Thread: My boyfriend lies to me over and over about porn

Originally Posted by whilhelm

forgive my laughter.

anon - you're getting angry. why? i told you i disagreed with you & i explained why i disagreed with you.

I'm not angry at all, and I forgive your laughter.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

yep, one who get's paid, and one who chose to follow that path. Let's not start the discussion on whether porn stars are abused, some are, some aren't, some are happy, some aren't.

well, at least you admit it - which is more than most porn users do. doesn't alleviate the negligence, however. your sexual gratification is never important enough to warrant using another person - regardless of their choice, payment, or anything else. period.

it's a discussion that was started a while ago & one i feel very strongly about.

Okay, you feel strongly about it, but this is not the discussion at hand. People are "used" for things in return for other things all the time. I'm used to fix someones computer, and I recieve financial reimbursement. That's the bloody economy. If a woman isn't willing to work in porn, she shouldn't. That ends the argument, at least as far as I'm concerned. Many pornstars are happier than the girl working behind the till at a supermarket.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

I don't have enough happiness in this world. Why should I let things stand in my way of it? I don't see how an individual persuit of happiness can preclude you from sharing a healthy relationship with someone else. I'm very independant, maybe more so than my partner, I don't need to share everything in my life. I don't need to do this to maintain a relationship, either.

you're assuming that i think pursuing happiness keeps you from a healthy relationship. that's not what i said - not what i intended, anyway. hard to communicate everything in 2 dimensions.

my point is that in a relationship - and i'm refering to marriage, which might make a difference, not sure - but my point is in response to the attitide that i gleaned from your original comments. you seemed to resent that a girl would ask you not to get off with porn, when she isn't willing to have sex every time you're in the mood.

is response, i'm saying that your happiness in that moment needs to take a back seat to hers. if your pursuit of happiness in a given situation causes her the lack of happiness - especially if it's just temporal pleasure you're after - then you need to set it aside.

I'm saying that if someone tells me not to do something, it's unlikely that I'll listen. I do not like to be controlled by anyone, just as I'm sure women don't like to be controlled by their men. I never said I resent it, or them, just that it's something that I wouldn't want in my life. You say I NEED to not claim immediate happiness, for what reason? I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Low self-esteem cannot stop you from doing things. Should one never speak to any female apart from one's partner for fear of them getting upset because they have no self confidence?

Originally Posted by whilhelm

just like the analogy to the kid's PTA meeting. don't get so personal & defensive. i never said you wouldn't be able to parent a child. i'm saying, in general, that being a man involves handling disappointment with poise. there are many things we want that we have to sacrifice for someone else - a spouse or a child. if you feel patronized by that, go right ahead. it's not my intention, but i couldn't feel more strongly about any statement i've made. being a real man - responsible, selfless, dependable, strong - involves accepting the very disappointments that you are citing as justification for using porn.

Here you go again saying what "being a man" is all about. This is a SUBJECTIVE opinion. It's yours, not mine. It was your patronizing attitude and calling me a baby etc. that was patronizing, not what you say in that paragraph, so stop changing your meanings around to suit you. And I fail to see how a man cannot be "resonsible, selfless(though why does one need to be?), dependable, strong" if one is a sexual being and is aroused by sex.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

I like how a few women in this thread have telling us men what it means to be a real man. To be honest, "a real man" isn't something that exists, and certainly isn't something that can be defined by something that a woman wants. I'm sure you'd jump down my throat pretty quick if I started telling you a "real woman" must always be receptive to sex, or cannot masturbate or something.

So, kindly shut up about a man/real man distinction, as every man is real.

nothing could be farther from the truth. if you're mincing words & talking semantics, then, yes, every man is real. they are all physically real.

i think you knew that i was talking figuratively. some men are dependable, some aren't. some men are considerate, some aren't. some are honest, some lie. some are caring, some are selfish. the list goes on.

if you truly care about your wife - or girlfriend, for that matter & depending on how serious you are - your pursuit of greatness will never stop. the day you stop trying to improve yourself is the day you to a disservice to your family.

Okay.... Err, basically, I'm not the man for you, neither would you be the woman for me. There are different types of people, with different lives and philosophies. You have such a bee in your bonet about porn, to the extent that it precludes and destroys all good qualities, but I see nothing to substantiate you. Obviously I know that your opinion of a "real man" is your figurative opinion, just one that I hope you know is subjective and not one that everyone else agrees with.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

porn is entirely selfish. porn is thoughtless, self-centered, and dangerous. there is nothing admirable or edifying about porn. at its best, it's like a candy bar. at its worst, it's rat poison.

Porn is selfish, and self-concerning. There is nothing admirable about it, and women get intimidated when they aren't the only sexual release for their males, as it kills their feeling of self-worth. Get over it. I see porn as a chocolate bar, and maybe as dangerous as a chocolate bar, proportionately. Chocolate makes you fat, remember. I've said before that the reason porn is good is BECAUSE it's selfish. I spend a lot of my effort in ensuring that my partner has a great time, to that end I cannot concentrate on pleasuring myself to the max. I have a right to be selfish. Who else is looking after my needs/wants as rigerously as me? If I wasn't selfish I'd be dead.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

can you show me, using either extreme, why any man wanting to be his best would indulge in either?

Maybe a man sees being his best as getting the most from life that he can. Maybe he has a more nihalistic point of view than you. Maybe he embraces his physicality and sensation rather than shunning it like some religious nut or wise man seeking not to cloud his head with physical pleasure.

Originally Posted by whilhelm

Stop fighting about minor points like porn and use that energy to make your man not want to leave you.

ludicrous.

this sounds like it came from a 12 year old who's mad he didn't get to stay up late last night.

we don't use our energy to make our partner not want to leave us.

You don't use your energy to make your partner not want to leave you? Remove the double negative and you get "You use your energy to make your partner want to leave you", or at best "I make no effort for the sake of our relationship".

I see porn as a minor point. You don't, whatever.

not a problem. you're content to indulge in activities that admittedly lack honor. yopur actions match your beliefs - which defines integrity. i would say you've achieved a level of self actualization that eludes most of us, albeit it on what i believe is the wrong road.

all i've ever asked of anyone debating porn with me is that they recognize it for what it is. don't use porn & call it admirable.

so i'll agree with you that porn is dishonorable & disagree that it's OK to be content with that.

may you find happiness in your nihilistic journey toward self-gratification.

on a different note, i'd like to point out something else that caught my attention. you indicated that there was no one else looking out for your interests but you, thus the need to be selfish:

I have a right to be selfish. Who else is looking after my needs/wants as rigerously as me? If I wasn't selfish I'd be dead.

assuming you're right, i would suggest it's due to the fact that too many people have adopted this perspective that you voiced in a different paragraph:

People are "used" for things in return for other things all the time. I'm used to fix someones computer, and I recieve financial reimbursement. That's the bloody economy. If a woman isn't willing to work in porn, she shouldn't. That ends the argument, at least as far as I'm concerned.

right & wrong exist despite the choices other people make. thank god there are people out there who are concerned a little farther than you.

on an entirely different note (& in the interest of being obnoxious)...

the grammar lesson falls on deaf ears:

You don't use your energy to make your partner not want to leave you? Remove the double negative and you get "You use your energy to make your partner want to leave you", or at best "I make no effort for the sake of our relationship".

there is no double negative in the statement, "You don't use your energy to make your partner not want to leave you."

"...not want to leave you" is a modifier. the actual root sentence is, "You don't use your energy to make your partner."

To make it a double negative, you should say "You don't use your energy to not make your partner (not want to leave you)."

for what it's worth.

ha! ha! ha!

you always know when someone has lost the argument they have to resort to attacking grammer and spelling!

pathetic!

could be. just keep in mind i wasn't the one to bring up grammar.

hotdogg, forgive me. but i think this thread might be a little over your head. no one's stomping & yelling childish insults here.

i don't think you'd be comfortable.

YAWN!

Yet more patronizing dribble.

Originally Posted by anonymouswhitefemale

Porn is selfish, and self-concerning. There is nothing admirable about it, and women get intimidated when they aren't the only sexual release for their males, as it kills their feeling of self-worth. Get over it.

My, Lord. You know that porn is intimidating and compromises women's self-worth, and your response is "get over it"? Good God. Lucky woman you've got to have such a great, caring, loving, boyfriend like you.

hotdogg, you have no idea how glad I am to see a woman on here agree with me, I was starting to lose hope in the gender a little. You seem to be a liberated and free woman, who's managed to put a few of your psychological problems on hold for a better life.

thanks whitefemale!
it is nice to see a guy on here with a realistic view on life too.

Originally Posted by ChelseaRenee

My, Lord. You know that porn is intimidating and compromises women's self-worth, and your response is "get over it"? Good God. Lucky woman you've got to have such a great, caring, loving, boyfriend like you.

It compromises my self worth that I'm not woken up to a blowjob and a banquet every morning. I got over that.



And whilhelm, let's look at this mathematically rather than gramatically:

"You don't use your energy to make your partner not want to leave you."
subtract on each side of the equation
"You use your energy to make your partner want to leave you."

Even if it's not a technical grammatical double negative, it is a mathematical one. I know this was probably just a slip up on your part, but you can't pretend that's not what it means.


And whilhelm, you can't really handle discussion very well can you? You feel compelled to bring irrelevent insults and patronisation into it. Perhaps if you controlled your arguments slightly better people would listen to you.

Originally Posted by anonymouswhitefemale

It compromises my self worth that I'm not woken up to a blowjob and a banquet every morning. I got over that.

Something like that doesn't compromise your self-worth, and you know it. That's something no one in their right mind would expect to have happen for them. However, a women can expect enough respect from her boyfriend for him not to look at porn. There's a big difference. Not waking up to a banquet doesn't compromise the way anyone sees themselves- You've admitted that's exactly what porn does. Don't make silly comparisons.