If that female is married or in a committed relationship, yes it is cheating.Originally Posted by MiniVanMan
And you are correct it is an example that is to the extreme when compared to just videos. I was merely using it to show that both sexes are "programmed" a certain way.
Van, your are absolutely right here and I commend you on your discussing it with your wife beforehand. Yours is a situation that turned out well with that not being an issue. But as yours didn't there are just as many, if not more that it sadly causes many problems.
I think it is a matter of the scale of the consequences. Many people will give in to their base desires when the cost is small. Eating dessert when you are really full. Being overly competetive in some sport. In this instance though, having 23 babies would have tremendous negative consequences. You would be committing yourself and your spouse to caring for 23 children - several lifetimes of work. Watching porn would have very few (physical) negative consequences - A little time wasted. Having an affair is intermediate - risk of disease, risk of emotional attachment, etc.
Something, maybe a "primitive instinct" causes me to go for long hikes in the mountains. Wastes some time, but no serious harm done, so I happily give in to my instinct.
Another "primitive instinct" causes me to want to strangle certain other people at work. Large negative consequences, lots of harm done, so I don't do it, though today......
I think a lot of the porn discussion boils down to:
Man: Where is the harm, bit of wasted time, as long as he is avaiblle for his SO, where is the loss.
Woman: He is comparing me to, and possibly replacing me with unrealistic images he sees on the screen. he will expect me to act like them.
[quote=rcoreyus;32257]
I think a lot of the porn discussion boils down to:
Man: Where is the harm, bit of wasted time, as long as he is avaiblle for his SO, where is the loss.
Woman: He is comparing me to, and possibly replacing me with unrealistic images he sees on the screen. he will expect me to act like them.[/quote]
No, point missed....He used to love me and I was enough for him. What has happened to me as a woman that he wants another...He does make me feel good about myself by doing what he is doing....He prefers them to me, so why should I try...
No matter how you look at it when a woman sees her man foaming at the mouth over another woman's genitals, she could strangle her. She wonders, why does he want to look at her when I have the same dress to put on... It is a confusion and hurt combination that she may not talk about but she keeps alive in her mind...That alone is a dangerous place for this to fester. It is not building her up, it is tearing her down.
If a woman is confident in herself and knows she is the best that there is, then this would not affect her too much. It would be the woman that wishes inside that she could be looser and more sexual than she is...that it would bother....Either way you are knocking the stuffing out of her by sitting and jacking off to another woman.
If my husband sat and watched Porn the way that many men do there is no way that I would be the same sexually hot woman in bed that I am. I refuse to compete...I want him and his undivided attention....I deserve it and demand it....And may I add that I get it....
I was going to stay out of this one, but....
MAN: Are you suggesting that all men are like this, or could this actually be thoughts of men who don't particular care enough about a woman's thoughts, feelings or doesn't actually really know what a woman really thinks and feels. Long as i'm only "doing her" what has she got to complain about? I know lots of men, and have heard and read here that would disagree entirely with : Man and your definition.
Men are all different. Fitting into different catagories but different.
Women are all different. Fitting into different catagories but different.
Imagine. You are at a bar, men are falling over your woman, you think it's great because she is yours. Then all of a sudden, you see that look in her eye, the one she gives only to you, but she's giving it to another man, right there in front of you. Then she's busted, realises, remember's your there and you know that long, hunger desire... She puts her head down in shame but secretly she is fantasising about what ever just transpired. MAN: How would you feel then?
Women: Are you again suggesting that we are very emotional and become insecure? Absolutely it's our nature. But the above paragraph can do the exact same thing to you. Am i not good enough for her, am i too small, don't i do it right, long enough, .......
Food for thought don't you think?
I love it!
Where is the harm? It hurts his wife/girlfriend and sometimes it hurts some relationships to the point that they end.
Fallen1I love it!
Actually come to think of it, i could strangle some people at work to....
Where is the harm? It hurts his wife/girlfriend and sometimes it hurts some relationships to the point that they end.
Amen... I just took a long time to say the same thing.
Sorry on my previous post - I wasn't trying to suggest that all men or women are like either example, just trying to get a handle on why there often seems such a big disagreement on this.
The arguement that if one person feels hurt by an action, that action should be stopped can lead to problems. What if that person feels "hurt" by a very wide range of things, and there are lots of "you must not do X because it will hurt me", and it becomes controlling. "you can't spend time with your friends because it hurts me" is often used in abusive relationships (by both genders).
What are the boundries on what it is acceptable to restrict because it causes the partner to feel hurt? Here I am specifically not counting anything that causes a direct hurt: physical, financial, or loss of time with spouse.
As far as this applies to porn, I am also ignoring the cases where someone is addicted to porn, or cases where they use porn as a substitute for a spoulse who neglects them sexually.
You're correct in wondering where the boundaries are. I guess that is something that each person needs to resolve for themselves. It's a very tough thing to answer.
As far as porn is concerned, and this is strictly my thoughts/feelings, is it right to continue to hurt someone just for your pleasure, especially if it is something that is not necessary and you can get the same pleasure (that is your physical relationship is healthy) from your partner?
Okay, I'm going to take these one at a time:
anonymouswhitefemale, it's the captain of Firefly, not the brute or the whiny pilot. Although thanks for the giggle. Thank you for flipping it around for me and telling me that when I picture Captain Mal Reynolds, it's the same as when he's looking at some other naked woman.
cougar, I'm so sorry to hear about your addiction, and I commend you for getting the help you needed and discovering balance in your lifestyle.
Whilhelm -- I appreciate your advice to try to think about this logically, and that is what I have been trying very hard to do for the past few weeks. This thread has helped me do that.
We are at the beginning of the relationship and he told me that he views porn in an attempt to be totally open and honest about sexuality from the beginning, which is very positive. I didn't find it, I didn't catch him, nothing like that -- he just told me. Also, it hasn't interfered with our sex life at all -- he's wonderful and loving in bed and makes sure my pleasure comes first. And when he told me, I didn't get upset right away. I was a little startled. He even showed me some of it -- mostly pictures of naked women and really soft-core stuff. Stuff that I myself would occasionally like to masturbate to (if my boyfriend isn't around, of course). When he mentioned that he watches it, he told me, "You're very attractive and if I had porn of you, I'd watch it," which I find reassuring. He also told me that if we wound up getting married, he'd give it up if I wanted him to. I know he really likes me, and he told me when we first started dating that his goal is to find someone to form a very strong, special bond with and to share his life with. He's the real deal.
I actually didn't know how I felt about porn until this episode occurred. It just never came up before. I dated my first boyfriend for three years in college and we had a very good sex life and I don't think I ever wondered if he watched porn or not. If I did wonder, it was probably in passing. I honestly couldn't remember if I would have cared, so I called him the other day to ask if we had ever discussed watching porn when we were dating. He said he watched it about three times a week but didn't tell me because I was so sexually fragile from the religious hang-ups. It never affected our sex life, so it never occurred to me to wonder. He also made sure I had my pleasure before I had his (although he wouldn't go down on me -- but I'm not bitter :P). Point is, first boyfriend watched it the entire three years we were dating and I had no idea. Fast forward a year to the next guy I'm truly interested in, my current boyfriend, and I find out he watches it on occasion and all of a sudden I'm dealing with something I had never even thought twice about before.
Just for the record, I am not religious anymore, in large part because of how much religion messed me up about sex (and other things in general). Religion informed everything I felt about sex, and it was painful and hard to get over those psychological blocks when I started having sex. I am still feeling the ramifications, obviously. I just went to the library and got Women on Top by Nancy Friday and The Story of O by Pauline Reage because I saw those books recommended elsewhere on this forum. I decided I'm going to try to get in touch with the fantasy side of my sexuality to see if that helps me understand the fantasy side of men's sexuality better. If I can understand the role fantasy plays in my own healthy sexuality, then I can understand it in my boyfriend's. I know how much I value what's in my own mind, especially my sexual fantasies (Mal Reynolds! I don't know why I love him so much) and I hesitate to try to control someone else's mind. Sexual fantasies are normal and natural, and I would rather have a partner that feels comfortable enough with me to share his fantasies with me than one who resents me for trying to control his mind. If that all makes sense.
That said, if I ever felt like it was affecting our sexual bond, I would ask him to take stock of his porn use and do some soul-searching to see exactly why he does it and if he feels like it's having any negative consequences on how he feels about our sex life or how intimate he feels with me. And if was affecting him negatively, I would ask him to stop.
I guess in the end it just comes down to trust. Everyone's going to fantasize about someone else occasionally, and you just have to trust that that person wouldn't ever hurt you and only wants to be intimate with you.
Caroline, I just read your post on riding a man's tongue, and I must say I envy your sexual bond with your husband. You are one lucky lady!
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