Thread: Miserable about porn

Originally Posted by pigwidgeon

Hi everyone,

I just started seeing this wonderful guy a few months ago and I really felt like we were hitting it off and connecting. One day, I don't remember how it came up, he mentioned that he watches porn occasionally. It didn't bother me for a few days, and then all of a sudden, I got incredibly upset. He's not addicted to it; he uses it occasionally when he masturbates and would never use it to replace a woman. So, I guess he's like any guy in a good relationship.

The thought of my guy, whether it be my current one or whatever future guy I might date, getting off to other women has pretty much destroyed me. I know that all guys watch porn in order to masturbate, and that destroys me even further, because it means I'm not enough and never will be. I also can't get over the feeling that men don't care about real women because they all get off to porn later. I don't get how a man in love with a beautiful woman has to look at other women to get off. It makes a woman feel worthless if she can't satisfy her lover.

I should mention that I'm a 23-year-old pro-sex liberal-minded woman and I'm definitely no prude. I also am intelligent and attractive and don't really have trouble attracting men, although now that I've learned that all men, even those who love their wives, will watch porn their entire lives, I feel the exact opposite.

What really gets me is that even the good guys I know do this and they don't think it's wrong at all to get off to another woman when their girlfriend's not available. How is this okay? I have no problem with any SO of mine masturbating, but the fact that he's getting off looking at another naked woman tears me apart inside. And the worst part is, all guys do this, so no matter what relationship I'm in, he'll always get off to other women. I also can't get over the thought that I have absolutely no sexual power, because if i did, why would any man I dated need to look at porn? Why would he even need me? How can any man really be attracted to a real woman if he's just going to whack off to porn later? Does he even care about women? I feel like women are worthless because no matter how awesome they are, men will always orgasm to other naked women.

How do men justify this?

I've been reading everything I can find on the Internet about this so I understand the arguments that it's okay -- it's just fantasy and everyone's entitled to that; that it's the same as a woman fantasizing about a movie star or using a vibrator; that it really has nothing to do with the woman a man is seeing. I still can't quite fathom it, though.

Please help me. I've been miserable over this for weeks now.

great questions. sorry you're hurting over this.

this is an important topic to me - i'm a guy who once struggled with porn & who sees it tearing relationships apart at an alarming rate. so i share your concern.

i've written volumes on here about this topic - we've had fights, discussions. all in all you should find a lot of food for thought.

no time to rewrite comments that would specifically address your questions right now, but i'd love to in the future.

let me offer this, quickly:
1. all guys don't watch porn, though all guys probably would & all guys have to battle the desire to ("all" is relative - we should say "most")
2. you are not doomed to a relationship that includes porn. yours is a very typical & healthy response. you shouldn't be comfortable with your partner jacking off to other women. you need to be clear about what you can & cannot accept in a relationship - that is, decide for yourself first. be introspective. then communicate that to whatever guy you're in a relationship with.
3. your partner's honesty is encouraging, eventhough what you learned is hurting you.

just to get you started:

http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...t-divorce.html

http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...just-talk.html

http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...l-my-porn.html

http://www.womens-health.com/boards/...some-help.html

Think of it this way...

You've just had a very fulfilling dinner. You are so full you feel you are about to burst. Then the waiter presents you with the most amazing dessert you have ever seen. You know you have no room for more in your tummy. Yet you want to taste that dessert. So you find room for it. You have one bite. Wow! That was great! You have a few more bites. You can't resist. It's just too good!

This is the feeling men have. One woman will never be "enough" because a fabulous "dessert" will always appear. That doesn't mean he's leaving you, or wants someone else. It just means that his desire is piqued by the sight of another woman. Variety sparks his sexual desire.

This, I learned in college from my human sexuality professor, is known as the "Coolidge Effect". It goes like this: President Coolidge and his wife went on a tour of a dairy farm. They were split into two groups, one with the President and one with the First Lady. The Firsty Lady's group visited the hen house. The tour guide noted the fact that there was only one rooster for hundreds of chickens. The First Lady asked him "So that rooster is able to copulate hundreds of times on a frequent basis?". "Oh, yes, ma'am." responded the guide. "Please tell that to the President when you see him" said the First Lady.

When the President came to the hen house, the tour guide mentioned that fact, and noted that the First Lady had requested him to do so. The President then asked "Tell me, can the rooster copulate that many times with just one chicken?" "Absolutely not!" replied the guide. "It has to be a *different* chicken virtually every time!"

"Please tell *that* to the First Lady" responded the President.

The point of the story is, it's just a biological fact that a new, attractive female is going to get a guy excited no matter the circumstances. If my wife screwed the **** out of me, and I'd had several orgasms, and I felt completely drained and satisfied but then a gorgeous babe walked in the room and offered to have sex with me and my wife consented, I would be able to get an erection, no question about it. She'd be new and exciting, and even if my wife is the most attractive woman on earth, a *different* woman will always be a novelty.

So I guess what I'm saying is, you can't fight biology. Sure, there may be a man out there that doesn't fit the mold, but in general, men like variety. So you can either keep searching for the rare man who is different, or you can accept that a man can be attracted to other women without actually wanting to cheat on you.

A question for you, if you don't mind: Have you never, *ever* been attracted to a man who wasn't you lover when you were in a relationship?

- MinVanMan

Originally Posted by MiniVanMan

Think of it this way...

You've just had a very fulfilling dinner. You are so full you feel you are about to burst. Then the waiter presents you with the most amazing dessert you have ever seen. You know you have no room for more in your tummy. Yet you want to taste that dessert. So you find room for it. You have one bite. Wow! That was great! You have a few more bites. You can't resist. It's just too good!

This is the feeling men have. One woman will never be "enough" because a fabulous "dessert" will always appear. That doesn't mean he's leaving you, or wants someone else. It just means that his desire is piqued by the sight of another woman. Variety sparks his sexual desire.

This, I learned in college from my human sexuality professor, is known as the "Coolidge Effect". It goes like this: President Coolidge and his wife went on a tour of a dairy farm. They were split into two groups, one with the President and one with the First Lady. The Firsty Lady's group visited the hen house. The tour guide noted the fact that there was only one rooster for hundreds of chickens. The First Lady asked him "So that rooster is able to copulate hundreds of times on a frequent basis?". "Oh, yes, ma'am." responded the guide. "Please tell that to the President when you see him" said the First Lady.

When the President came to the hen house, the tour guide mentioned that fact, and noted that the First Lady had requested him to do so. The President then asked "Tell me, can the rooster copulate that many times with just one chicken?" "Absolutely not!" replied the guide. "It has to be a *different* chicken virtually every time!"

"Please tell *that* to the First Lady" responded the President.

The point of the story is, it's just a biological fact that a new, attractive female is going to get a guy excited no matter the circumstances. If my wife screwed the **** out of me, and I'd had several orgasms, and I felt completely drained and satisfied but then a gorgeous babe walked in the room and offered to have sex with me and my wife consented, I would be able to get an erection, no question about it. She'd be new and exciting, and even if my wife is the most attractive woman on earth, a *different* woman will always be a novelty.

So I guess what I'm saying is, you can't fight biology. Sure, there may be a man out there that doesn't fit the mold, but in general, men like variety. So you can either keep searching for the rare man who is different, or you can accept that a man can be attracted to other women without actually wanting to cheat on you.

A question for you, if you don't mind: Have you never, *ever* been attracted to a man who wasn't you lover when you were in a relationship?

- MinVanMan

Her point is she deserves more than that. And she does. Get real. Does biology play a role in almost everything we do? Completely! Does that mean it gets to rule us and allow us to place blame on it when we do something hurtful (the example given here is porn)? Uh. No. "Can't fight biology"- In the physical sense, no. I can't will my hair to turn purple, or will myself grow an inch. But to blame biology for your decisions to do something hurtful, like watch porn in a relationship where it's not okay with your spouse...a little bit of a cop-out, dotcha' think? Biology does not give you the right to hurt your SO and blame it on something other than your own decisions, bottom line.

I'm not saying porn is not okay for some couples! It totally can be- it can add spice to a relationship, I think. But for some, like her (and me), it's offensive. You want to jerk yourself silly to other women, great! But do it without me sticking around.

Originally Posted by ChelseaRenee

Her point is she deserves more than that. And she does. Get real. Does biology play a role in almost everything we do? Completely! Does that mean it gets to rule us and allow us to place blame on it when we do something hurtful (the example given here is porn)? Uh. No. "Can't fight biology"- In the physical sense, no. I can't will my hair to turn purple, or will myself grow an inch. But to blame biology for your decisions to do something hurtful, like watch porn in a relationship where it's not okay with your spouse...a little bit of a cop-out, dotcha' think? Biology does not give you the right to hurt your SO and blame it on something other than your own decisions, bottom line.

Adding a little to this, I have posted before in a porn thread that I think using "we are programmed to do so" is just an excuse also. Using that same argument couldn't we women also say - "I'm sorry honey, I know I'm pregnant for the 23rd time but it's programmed within my being that I have babies just as it is for you to spread your seed. Oh, and by the way this baby doesn't belong to you either. This one also belongs to Mr. Smith next door because nature tells me to reproduce with the strongest, fittest male."

i hope this doesn't get ugly - this could be a GREAT thread. great ideas.

Originally Posted by MiniVanMan

Then the waiter presents you with the most amazing dessert you have ever seen. You know you have no room for more in your tummy. Yet you want to taste that dessert. So you find room for it. You have one bite. Wow! That was great! You have a few more bites. You can't resist. It's just too good! - MinVanMan

this is a perfect analogy.it's just about exactly like this.

we have learned that the more people eat sweets the more they feel they crave sweets. if there's anything that adkins, ornish, the TNT folks - have all brought us, it's the understanding that 2 or 3 weeks off of sugar reduces our craving for sugar.

so follow the van's analogy to its logical conclusion...

if porn is like dessert that you don't have room for, and the way to reduce your craving for dessert is to resist it & over time you'll stop craving it... then there must be a contradiction in an attitude that tells us this:

"Yet you want to taste that dessert."

and...

"You can't resist."

sure you can resist. but you don't want to resist. so:

"So you find room for it."

it's a willful decision to resist or make room. biology really doesn't play the role that guys like to think it does - any more than it does when a fat guy tries to keep from eating a twinkie.

the curse of our human nature is that we seek comfort & pleasure, even when it is not in our best interest.

the blessing of the human condition is that we've been given the faculties to rise above biology & apply reason & judgement to our behavior.

i think the most significant piece of advice i've seen in this entire two year controvery on this board concerning porn is this, from the van's post:

"keep searching for the rare man who is different."

this is the challenge we all need to take on, especially us guys as we look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by MiniVanMan

So I guess what I'm saying is, you can't fight biology. Sure, there may be a man out there that doesn't fit the mold, but in general, men like variety. So you can either keep searching for the rare man who is different, or you can accept that a man can be attracted to other women without actually wanting to cheat on you.

A question for you, if you don't mind: Have you never, *ever* been attracted to a man who wasn't you lover when you were in a relationship?

- MinVanMan

Yes, I definitely have been attracted to other men when I was in a relationship (I'm talking about my first boyfriend, not my current one), and when that happened, I always viewed it as harmless fun because I loved my partner and would never cheat on him. Any other attraction just seemed unimportant. Also, when I masturbated, I didn't always think about him (my favorite fantasy was Mal Reynolds from Firefly, haha). And it never crossed my mind that it was something he should worry about, because it was just fantasy, just make-believe, and I was still so attracted to him and he was my first priority. Even now, with my new boyfriend, I'm still fantasizing about whomever wants to pop himself into my little head, even though my new guy is incredibly attractive and wonderful.

From what I understand from talking to my guy friends, it's the same sort of thing with guys and porn. Of course you find the girl(s) on the screen attractive, because they *are* attractive, and of course they arouse you, because they're naked. But they're just fantasy. Also, I enjoy some erotica and some porn, but I don't watch it to get aroused by attractive guys like guys watch it to get aroused by attractive girls. I just find it arousing to watch people having sex. Pictures of men don't do it for me (unless it's Mal Reynolds!). I have always wanted to watch it with a partner, but that never happened in my first relationship because he hid the fact that he watch porn from me "because I was so sexually fragile." (He was right about the sexually fragile part, but I'm not sure hiding that from me was the best thing for him to do.)

I think I've been struggling a lot with the concept of sexual fantasy because I was never in touch with mine. I never even started masturbating until my freshman year of college because I was very religious in high school and thought all sex was bad. It really messed me up sexually. When I started having sex with my first boyfriend, I couldn't even feel it. If I had a sexual fantasy, like Mal Reynolds, I had no idea that that's what it was. I have no intention of ever giving up my private little fantasy world because I see it as harmless to my partner, so I would be totally hypocritical if I asked him to give up his. And even if he did give up porn, he'd still masturbate to other women in his head, so what does it matter whether his masturbation fodder is on a screen or in his imagination? No man is never going to fantasize about another woman, and no woman is never going to fantasize about another man.

I know I sound like I'm contradicting myself, but that's because both of these trains of thoughts have been wrestling in my head for the past several weeks. I'm really trying to comprehend human sexuality and I'm coming to understand that fantasy is a part of healthy human sexuality. I'm trying so so hard not to be a hypocrite and come to terms with my own sexuality so I can understand my partner's. He's a wonderful guy in every way, and I don't want to let something that's normal and healthy, something that I do too, ruin that.

My main problems have been this (an excerpt from my original post):

"How can any man really be attracted to a real woman if he's just going to whack off to porn later? Does he even care about women? I feel like women are worthless because no matter how awesome they are, men will always orgasm to other naked women."

I guess I need reassurance that men love real women and that it is worth it for me to feel and be attractive.

What do you guys think about all of this? I appreciate everyone's time so much. You guys rock.

A few points of contention -

1 - Not ALL men watch porn. I don't watch it (I have seen porn, but I don't go looking for it to watch), and I do masturbate. I use the mental images of my wife and I making love (or occasionally I venture back into my past, but that's rare).

2 - I think if you are with the right woman, you shouldn't need that extra "dessert" as in the analogy above.

3 - I wouldn't recommend the homemade porn unless you are married, and even than I would be very careful...you see how stuff makes its way onto the internet these days.

My advice is to ask him if he could picture you when he masturbates. If he agrees, than put on a show for him one night (no cameras allowed) - try on multiple outfits, let him watch you masturbate, than have sex in front of a mirror so he can watch that way. That should give him enough mental pictures to rub one out. If he can't do it, than brush him to the side. Believe me, there are plenty of men who don't need porn. Try visiting Church, you should find a few there (although you may have to marry him to sleep with him).