Losing it to a toy??? Your opinions please.

[WildChild]

Sini likes to stir the pot a bit now and then. He has his own proclivities which he gives a glimpse of now and then. He puts a bit of spice into the mix now and then.

[starjoy08]

Ok, so men worry about sex just like women do. You could loos it to a toy but you are still a virgin in the aspect of sex with another person. 1.Yes, there is some pain when you loss it but it is not bad. 2. If you cry it should be because you are happy. 3. Sex should be something special and if a guy does not want to have sex with a virgin, then he does not deserve sex at all. Sex is fun and special. $. Toys can be fun and they are even more fun when you use them during sex with a partner! Good Luck

[SinisterUrge]

There's no mention of hymens at all.

Look harder.

The state of the hymen can, in some circumstances, be used to test to see if a woman might be a virgin - if it is there (untorn) she is, if it isn't there (or is torn) it is inconclusive.

Inconclusive to whom? In every culture that puts value on female virginity, the intactness of the hymen is the only "proof" accepted.

Many women, as mentioned by other posters, tear their hymens in totally non-sexual activities, such as horse-riding - do you really believe, for example, that a 12 year old girl who has torn her hymen through horse-riding is not a virgin? I certainly don't.

Yes, that is what I believe.

Rape is not a sexual experience - it is a violent crime.

Yes, Rape IS a violent crime. It is also sex. Non-consensual (and usually violent) sex is rape, that is its very definition.

[Hopeless Dork]

I have my own opinion on the reason some men hold virginity in such high esteem and I think it has much to do with insecurities of their penis. They want to be the first and only their woman has experienced so that they can't be compared to previous lovers that may or may not have been more endowed, or better pleasing.

Reminds me of a joke I heard...

A man heck bent on marrying a virgin decided the best way to determain if a woman was one was to show her his penis. If she knew what it was he'd know she's not the girl for him. Several potential fiance's he'd showed his penis to knew what it was so he could not marry them.

Finally he met a woman that when he showed her his penis he said "do you know what this"? She had no idea. He proposed on the spot. On the night of their honeymoon he stepped into the bedroom naked pointed at his erection and said "well , now you can know what this is , sweetie, its a penis. His bride shook her head in disbelief and said "No... that isn't a penis... penis' are bigger than that".

[SinisterUrge]

You had to know you were going to catch heck for that statement When does a man lose his virginity? Or.. wait.. men were never virgins because they don't have an intact hymen... or even a hymen at all.

Correct, men do not have virginities to lose.

Most men, are evolved enough to realize that virginity status is irrelevent, and a presense of a hymen, even more so irrelevent.

That is absolutely not true. just because you live in a progressive "civilized" country does NOT mean 'most people' think like you. Cultures in Africa, the middle-east, Asia, and much of what once was eastern Europe (ie. more than half the world's population) put great value on female virginity (and indeed, girls in many cultures are a commodity to be bought/sold/bartered). This is guaranteed only by the intactness of the hymen.

Barbaric by your standards, Yes certainly. But for most people, the hymen is the only acceptable proof of virginity.

[Hopeless Dork]

Hmmm.. well so thanks for enlightening us that there is no such thing as male virginity. For MOST PEOPLE they DO consider a man a virgin if he hasn't had sex. They hymen is nothing its broken in seconds, then what... all that stupidity and nonsense of a woman having no worth in the barter and sex trade industry (yeah those are the people's opinion of the definition we should all hold dear) without that peice of flesh that can tear during routine gymastics is so far beyond barbaric.

In the real world I live in (not the one where families kill the girl if she is raped because she has brought shame to the family with her missing glorious hymen)... virginity is lost when you have sex for the first time. Male or female. Most people (not counting religious fantatics or guys insecure about their manhood) consider it to be so as well.

[WildChild]

Ah the power of words, thoughts and perceptions. They have brought nations to war. What we have here may not be resolvable, not to everyone's satisfaction. Dictionaries can vary in their definition depending on the culture that produced them, time period and whether it is a common usage dictionary, as is Websters.

I find some truth in all that has been said here. It really is a cultural concern and definition. In some cultures (sadly still in today's world) just the suspicion that a girl is not a virgin can lead to her death to protect the family "honor". In those cases presence of an intact hymen is required and rape isn't an excuse. She is still at fault for having been raped - even if it was incest. It's ugly, it's wrong, but that's reality.

Taking the current, more western view, anyone who hasn't has sex is a virgin, not withstanding that the original word applied to women. While we may understand that lack of or in some cases presence of a hymen is not proof positive of sexual activity, our culture still holds some strong prejudists there. There is no physical way to tell if a man is a sexual first timer. Lack of skill is not an indicator since some who have been at it for years are still clumsy.

Perhaps we need some new vocabulary it fit a new attitude?

[Iseulda]

HD, the world SU is describing is part of the real world too - it's just a very different one. We don't have to like it - but it is real. I recognise that wasn't the context in which you were answering.

SU, just because the majority of people believe something it doesn't make it right.

And you have changed your tune a little - before you said the intact hymen equals virginity, now you say "the [intact] hymen is the only acceptable proof of virginity". A is proof of B is not the same thing as saying absence of A is proof of -B.

There are no crumbs on the kitchen counter - does that prove I didn't just eat a doughnut? :wink:

[CHANDLERS WISH]

There was a thread created on this topic last year.

It's quite a debate but one in which I don't think will assist an 18 or 21 year old work out which way to go. What constitues a Virgin was not the question.

And what can I tell my friend to make her feel better about the virgin thing?

Tell her that it is not relevant what the "youth" of today think in the male species it matters that she has held onto her virginity for a reason and to be proud of that, to lose it when she wants to, and not through pressure.

I believe that there is enough information within this thread to answer her thoughts and/or to google as it appears is happening in this thread for further thoughts.

Thread closed.

CW