stroutman81

Nats, a member here at the forum asked me a few questions via Private Message and she gave me permission to share our dialog here on the forum. I like to keep things out in the open so others can add to the conversation or learn from it.

That said, here was her original question:

Hi,

Im taking you up on your offer for advice. Im a little unsure as to what a typical day of food should consist of now, how many meals and if counting calories is more important than portions or vice versa...I've heard and received various pieces of information but I think, because, as I've said, I have more to lose than perhaps the average "dieter" I should be more conscious than others.

I've received the 6 meals a day lecture, the no eating before bed, the eat before bed b/c thats 8 hours without food...Just curious what your take on this would be...

Thank you so much in advance!!!

stroutman81

Meal frequency or put differently, number of meals per day, really doesn't matter. It's a matter of individual preference. Schedules can impact what people are more comfortable with. Personal satiation can impact meal frequency... some people feel more satiated on less meals, others feel more satiated on more meals.

So it's really up to you. Experiment and find out what you likes.

The idea that more meals increases metabolic rate is absolutely wrong. I won't go into the science of it unless you want me to.

I say between 3-6 meals is ideal. Or you can do 3 meals and 2 snacks. Or whatever. Keep it loose. The more rigidity you add to a "plan" the less likely you're going to enjoy it and maintain consistency.

Here's the thing: Calories always matter. They're the most critical element of losing weight. If you're not in a caloric deficit, you're not going to lose fat. Right?

That said, this doesn't mean you MUST count calories.

You can simply try eating "healthy" foods (which tend to be less dense in terms of calories in general) and controlling portions. Here you're not counting calories, but there's a good chance your choices will self-regulate calories automatically.

This approach is good for those with good willpower and/or for those who hate the idea of recording numbers and tracking food intake.

Others prefer to count calories and nutrients using something the fitday website or something of that nature. Or, those who try out the previous method and don't experience success might have to resort to counting calories. Either way, this route requires a digital food scale and measuring cups/spoons.

One approach is not better than the other... it's just a matter of personal preference. I'd say the latter is more accurate but for some, it's more stressful. For others, it's helpful and enjoyable.

Any dieter needs to be conscious. Remind me again of your stats. Sorry, I talk to 20 or so people a day online so everything starts to blend together, lol.

These things don't matter as long as calories and nutrients are in check. Simple as that.

The problem with eating at night is some people can't control themselves b/c it's when they're on the couch, watching television, etc. So they overeat their caloric. allowance.

If you have a grip of your calories though... it's not an issue.

I personally eat a full meal about 30 minutes before going to bed.

***

Does all of this make sense? If no, ask anything you'd like to clear things up. If yes, we can talk about more specifics.

BethAnne

I believe for those who are healthy (not diabetic, etc) that eating two meals a day is better for the health of the stomach. It spends hours working to digest our food and it needs a good rest at night. So eat a good sized breakfast that is healthy, a good lunch, perhaps later in the afternoon, like 1 p.m. and then nothing after that. 6 hours between these two meals is good.

The weight will come off, even on older people. After you have reached your ideal weight you might be able to keep it there by just adding a simple fruit for the evening meal if you feel like you need it or a piece of toast. Very lite meal.

Not only will you sleep better with no evening meal, you will wake up in the morning refreshed and ready for the day.

Food is designed to give us energy. We don't need energy in the evening when we should instead be winding down getting ready for sleep. When it is time for me to go to bed, I'm ready to go and sleep comes immediately. This is because I'm tired. If I eat dinner, then instead of being ready to sleep, I'm wide awake, ready to go! I'm not tired at all. So then I lay there in bed wondering why I can't go to sleep.

I am older and 2 meals a day is exactly what is helping me to lose weight.

stroutman81

Too many uncontrolled variables.

Are you suggesting 2000 calories spread over 5 meals vs. 2 meals will vary in terms of health impact of the stomach? The 2 meals per day would be healthier in this instance?

If so, where are you pulling this data from?

The digestive system will have to work more frequently in the higher meal frequency diet. HOWEVER, the amount of work performed per meal will be much much higher in the lower meal frequency diet.

It more than likely nets out to no noticeable difference.

Meal frequency doesn't lead to weight loss.

Caloric control does.

Not everyone is the same. Some people report much better satiation on higher meal frequencies.

Blanket recommendations hardly ever "work" in this field.

This is false. You do realize that the largest component of metabolism is our basal needs, right?

Well our basal needs (BMR) don't turn off at night.

I'm glad this works well for you.

That said, taking n=1 and applying it to everyone doesn't work so well.

Indirectly maybe... but directly it's the caloric control. Look at it this way... if you ate 2 meals per day and your total daily intake of calories was over your maintenance, you'd gain weight even if you were still eating 2 meals per day.

BethAnne

I practice this 2-meal a day plan. I'm speaking of only two meals a day. I eat until I'm full. That's it. I eat nothing inbetween meals--no snacks, except cool water.

Very simple. I know that older people will lose on this because I'm older.

I don't keep track of calories. I don't need to keep track of calories.

It is the evening meal that puts on the extra weight. Those who are overweight don't need that third evening meal.

Any good dietition will tell you it the EVENING MEAL that makes a person GAIN WEIGHT. Those who are overweight don't need it.

Yes, this is simple and easy to do--and if those who are overweight try this, they will find it will work for them.

BethAnne

I don't know where to find an edit button but I will add this to my last post:

I speak of eating two meals: breakfast and lunch, not anything after 3 p.m. in the afternoon. Drink cool or cold water instead.

You will lose. Try it.

stroutman81

I wasn't doubting you and I think you expressed this clearly in your original post.

What you're not understanding is this:

1. It will ONLY work if calories are controlled. This doesn't mean you have to count calories. But if you're limiting yourself to two meals per day, there's a good chance calories are going to be controlled automatically. So it's not the meal frequency that is causing the weight loss/control... it's the calorie control.

2. That said, calories can be controlled many different ways and though this one particular way works for you, that does not mean it will work for everyone your age or anyone else. In fact, I've had the opportunity to work with literally hundreds of people on the weight loss front and I can vouch that more people feel better and more satiated on higher meal frequencies than lower meal frequencies.

These are my two main points that you're missing.

What you're suggesting opposed all date from research and all personal anecdote. The thing is, if you eat in the evening, yet maintain a net caloric deficit, you won't gain weight. PERIOD.

Our bodies aren't magic. They can't create something out of nothing. Fat comes from an excess of energy. Calories are a form of energy. Consume more calories than your body needs and you'll store tissue.

It works both ways though.

Consume less calories than your body needs and you'll lose tissue.

If you need 2000 calories per day to maintain your current body and you consume 1500 calories... guess what:

It doesn't really matter when you eat said calories... you're still going to lose weight.

This is false.

I work with 3 of the most highly sought dietitians in in the greater Philadelphia region and they all understand the basics of physics... more specifically thermodynamics.

I'm not looking to trash your ideas or you... so don't take this personally please. That said, you are grossly oversimplifying the human body and my sole intention is maintaining the integrity of information on forums like this so people have accurate information to work with.

You found what works for you and you seem to enjoy it. I'm happy for you.

That said... it's not working for the reasons you think it's working. Correlation is not causation. And that's fine... you don't need to know the whys. Be happy with the results. However, when you start telling other people that this works for the incorrect reasons, I feel obligated to step up.

BethAnne

I personally know dieticians who are highly educated and contrary to popular belief, it is better to eat a lite meal in the evening or nothing if you want to keep your weight off.

I'm telling people it works for the RIGHT REASONS which I've already listed.

Good-by.

stroutman81

Okay. Why not have them sign up here and explain their position as it's false on all accounts?

Here's the thing:

People tend to over eat at night. It's when they unwind from a stressful day. It's when they're more likely to overconsume high calorie foods unconsciously while they watch television.

On that front, sure, if you eat uncontrollably at night and it throws you INTO A CALORIC SURPLUS... you're going to run into problems if losing weight is the goal.

But this isn't really about eating at night. It's about eating too much.

You can't gain weight in a caloric deficit. Read that twice... three times if you have to.

And again, I look forward to speaking with your dietitian friends. Just to be clear, you're suggesting that they endorse the idea that you will gain weight if you eat in the PM hours even if you're in a net caloric deficit.

Right?

Unfortunately you don't get to pick and choose what's right and wrong. I can call the sky green but it doesn't make me right.

The burden of proof is on you and so far you've done nothing but gloss over or outright ignore my main points of contention.

HALFNOTHING

im not so sure about 2 meals a day.. how about 2 meals at night? i am a Muslim so this month is our holy month that instead of eating breakfast and lunch, we should take our breakfast around 3 am - 430am and then no food for a whole day, no water, no cigar, no things will be in the mouth until dinner around 6:45 pm, this is the 2nd meal.. so usually we are eating a lot at night. and then sleep then wake up 2-4:30 am to eat.. everything is prohibited from 4:30am to 6:45 pm..

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