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Are You Mom Enough?

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  • Are You Mom Enough?

    My first thought when seeing this weeks cover on Time magazine was LITTLE and ooohhhh, a good WH topic!

    So, let's have it... Thoughts on this weeks cover? It's all over the news. Remember, let's keep it respectful.

    image.jpg

  • Just another social issue of people getting involved in other people's business. It reminds me of the controversy that arose when John Steinbeck released "The Grapes Of Wrath". My mother allowed my older brother and I to run around naked until a year before Kindergarten (we grew up in the country). Will such a scene be the next controversial Time cover?
    I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience.
    ...
    Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

    From a speech by Patrick Henry on March 23, 1775 at St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia

    Comment


    • When I saw that cover I actually laughed because I knew this would turn into one big mess of back and forth arguments. Personally I will be taking the traditional method of breastfeeding my baby until they are the average age that babies are weened off. No amount of "well you are not bonding with the child enough! you are a bad parent now!" type extremists opinions would ever change my mind....I am really not for the unconventional methods of anything. I understand the whole aspect of some parents wanting 24/7 contact and continual breastfeeding and I respect that they wish to do that but I think it is a bit much and I am going to be in the majority of mothers when I am a mother.
      There are those who believe that dictionaries should not merely reflect the times but also protect English from the mindless assaults of the trendy.

      Comment


      • I think it's immodest. I wouldn't want my wife and kid in that picture. But I think it may do more good than harm as far as awareness of ancient traditions that are more natural and beneficial. Our culture is a great one, but I think this is one area where we're probably still missing the mark a bit, even if we are doing better. There are people that think this is abusive and can scar children. It's good to get that out in the open and talk about it. You probably need a little shock for a paradigm shift. Put me in the "pro" column, even if somewhat reluctantly.
        "Those sowing seed with tears
        Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

        Comment


        • I really didn't see what the big deal was. In fact, I'm not even sure what the argument is about. My view on breastfeeding is if you want to do it, do it. You're the mother and you job is to provide the best you can for your child, breastfeeding or formula/baby food.

          Comment


          • I'm a big proponent of breastfeeding. I'm also a big proponent of modest breastfeeding. I do not agree with women who flop a boob out in the middle of a restaurant to breastfeed feed their child and then DARE anyone to say anything against it. I DO agree with women who modestly and respectfully breastfeed their child in public.

            As for the age of the child... no matter what anyone says there will be ample scientific studies to say otherwise. It's one of those situations in which you hope the parent will do what is right for their child both physically and mentally. I feel like once a child gets to the age in which they will retain memories a mother should really think about discontinuing breastfeeding. If it is truly for health reasons you want your child to continue breastfeeding, pump and let him drink the milk like any kid that age would. I think the issue is, when is the stopping point? Sure, it would be nice if all women would truly use their instincts and best judgement. But the fact is, not all women will...some will continue it for selfish reasons, for reasons of not wanting to see their baby grow up, etc. And yes, once a child gets old enough to start socializing with other children to any extent, I believe continual breastfeeding would be detrimental to their emotional/social development. The same as I believe allowing them to sleep in your bed until THEY are ready not to, will be detrimental. I know that if I have children, I will secretely WANT to breastfeed them forever. I'll secretely WANT them to sleep in my bed with me until they move off from home. But I hope and pray I am strong enough to do what's best for my child, not what is best for me.
            "Be what you're looking for."

            Comment


            • As an Attachment Parenting, Dr. Sears loving, "Extended" Breastfeeding mom ... I don't like the cover The kid is THREE years old, which isn't even into the "weaning" age range, except in our current culture (see Dettwyler's research!) But he's made to look like such a big kid, I would have pegged him as 7 or 8, plus the pose is very strange. But I guess nursing a toddler isn't pretty ... they like to twist, kick, do handstands ... etc. Not good for a magazine cover. Don't know why it would be censored though, as my husband informed me it was on the View recently ... no nipple was showing, and I'm sure that stars on the red carpet show more boobage. I BF in public all the time without getting any attention or showing more skin than your average tank top, but maybe I'm a craaaazyyy crunchy mom, idk?

              I've seen a lot of crud on facebook (I follow Babycenter and a few other similar sites) about how "disgusting" and "gross" nursing a 3 year old is About how nursing after 12 months is a MOM problem, is a sexual deviance, is borderline child abuse, is infantilizing your child ... the sad face is NOT enough. I can't imagine not continuing to nurse my 17 month old toddler, who is still very much a baby. I can't imagine not parenting the way that I do, not making the decisions I came to before tentatively googling the subjects and finding a safe haven in Dr. Sears and the AP community.

              While I haven't read the article, I'm going to extrapolate from the title that it's painting AP moms as extremists, as snotty, judgmental, and divisive. Those aren't the attitudes that attachment parenting (and especially breastfeeding) needs, and it's not the press that we need. I'm mom enough because I love my son, I consider his needs along with the needs of the family, versus his wants and the family's wants and I compromise for everybody's best interests (to my best ability, natch.) Any mom who does the same is doing a great job, no matter how my methods may clash with anybody else's.

              IAS, I'm curious - whose majority are you going to follow? Your friends'? Your community's? Your country's? The world's? You're going to find massive differences in age of weaning between all of them. Differences ranging from zero breastfeeding, 6 weeks, 6 months, one year, two years, and between four and seven years. And every child (and every set of breasts) is different. You might want to wait until the real situation presents, with a real child and functional breasts to see what works for YOU in your life.
              <center><i>Nature gives us shapeless shapes,<br>Clouds and waves and flame,<br>But human expectation is that love remains the same,<br>And when it doesn’t, we point our fingers and blame.</i><br><a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/register.php">Register</a>|<a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/members/little.html">Contact Admin</a>|<a href="mailto:support*womens-health.com?subject=Forum Contact">Email Admin</a></center>

              Comment


              • But he's made to look like such a big kid
                Maybe he's just beefy from all the breast milk. Tehehehehee. Okay, I'm kidding.
                "Be what you're looking for."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Beautiful Disaster View Post
                  If it is truly for health reasons you want your child to continue breastfeeding, pump and let him drink the milk like any kid that age would.
                  What do you do when pumping doesn't work, doesn't draw out milk? What about when pumping kills your supply (because it can)? A pump doesn't work like a child does; it doesn't have the same level of effectiveness. A woman whose breasts make enough milk for her child to survive and thrive on may not be able to pump a single drop. Not to mention that pumping can be painful, and is definitely a pain in the behind and an extra step that isn't necessary.
                  I think the issue is, when is the stopping point? Sure, it would be nice if all women would truly use their instincts and best judgement. But the fact is, not all women will...some will continue it for selfish reasons, for reasons of not wanting to see their baby grow up, etc. And yes, once a child gets old enough to start socializing with other children to any extent, I believe continual breastfeeding would be detrimental to their emotional/social development.
                  The stopping point, anthropologically, is between 4 and 7 years. I don't think even a child who is allowed to breastfeed "forever" will enter puberty or go to college still breastfeeding ... you can't "make" a child who doesn't want to nurse continue to nurse. Children are intelligent, very intelligent, and very sensitive to cultural cues. They know when they're "too big" to nurse anymore. And as far as socializing, when do you think kids begin to socialize with other kids? Google says they begin to play interactively with other children around age two ... and the World Health Organization says mothers should breastfeed until at least two years old. That doesn't jive.
                  I know that if I have children, I will secretely WANT to breastfeed them forever. I'll secretely WANT them to sleep in my bed with me until they move off from home. But I hope and pray I am strong enough to do what's best for my child, not what is best for me.
                  I think you underestimate the desire of a mother to see her child move on and not be a 45 lb school-age kid on the breast (because, ouchies.) I love breastfeeding, I think it's great for my son, it really works for us, I will advocate for it until my last breath. But I will also whoop and holler when he decides he's too big for "ba" and I get to have my nipples all to myself again. I don't think the "selfish mom" argument holds a whole lot of water.

                  I'm trying not to be defensive, because to a lot of you, this is just a thing that other people, some random person out there does, but to me, it's what I do. It's something I've researched, it's uninformed opinions I've battled with friends and family. That's something to remember when talking parenting
                  <center><i>Nature gives us shapeless shapes,<br>Clouds and waves and flame,<br>But human expectation is that love remains the same,<br>And when it doesn’t, we point our fingers and blame.</i><br><a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/register.php">Register</a>|<a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/members/little.html">Contact Admin</a>|<a href="mailto:support*womens-health.com?subject=Forum Contact">Email Admin</a></center>

                  Comment


                  • IAS, I'm curious - whose majority are you going to follow? Your friends'? Your community's? Your country's? The world's? You're going to find massive differences in age of weaning between all of them. Differences ranging from zero breastfeeding, 6 weeks, 6 months, one year, two years, and between four and seven years. And every child (and every set of breasts) is different. You might want to wait until the real situation presents, with a real child and functional breasts to see what works for YOU in your life.
                    The majority Western population. I will breastfeed because I do not want to miss that opportunity when my baby is an infant. I completely agree with breastfeeding when they are so young and innocent relying on the milk that does have more benefits than formula I have no issues at all with that, my issue is when that child is no longer that fragile infant and they are running around making a mess clearly not in 100% need like a young infant is-I am not saying a child is not dependent on the mother when they are bit older I am saying in comparison to a young infant. But once they can walk around, feed themselves with a bottle etc. like other children I am not going to chase them down in the house so that they can breastfeed...they will be getting their bottle and I will hold and cuddle them and decide at that time if I should pump breastmilk to put in that bottle but I am not going to actually breastfeed them at that older age.

                    And yes I am well aware that the body is going to differ from another mother's and I will treat my body accordingly to what it decides to do with milk production for example. But I am still not going to breastfeed when they are getting into the older age. I will be a traditional mother no question and I will ween and accommodate that child until they are ready to enter new phases of development but I am not going to breastfeed them for years because I personally do not believe it is developmentally beneficial. I also wonder about the psychological aspect of the child in later years. If a child is 4,5,6+ years old and breastfeeding at the park for example or at a mommy playdate at the house and another child comes up to him/her after and says "why do you do that with your mommy I don't", what is the psychological aspect when that breastfeeding child understands that other kids do not do that.
                    There are those who believe that dictionaries should not merely reflect the times but also protect English from the mindless assaults of the trendy.

                    Comment


                    • I think you underestimate the desire of a mother to see her child move on and not be a 45 lb school-age kid on the breast (because, ouchies.)
                      I doubt it. It comes more from the fact that mothers, whether their child is 2 or 60, still view them as their babies. It doesn't mean you'd truly go through with breastfeeding your child until they were 45 lbs. It doesn't mean you don't want them to be a "normal" school aged kid. It doesn't mean you'd do it, even if they were totally for it. It just means that instinctively, according to most women I know who are mothers, they wish they could hold on to their "baby" a little longer. And there will ALWAYS be someone out there that takes it to the extreme end of things. I have seen mothers of 30 year old men literally hold them back in life and inhibit them from learning things on their own that are important to them being good men, because they fear losing that motherly bond.

                      What do you do when pumping doesn't work, doesn't draw out milk? What about when pumping kills your supply (because it can)? A pump doesn't work like a child does; it doesn't have the same level of effectiveness. A woman whose breasts make enough milk for her child to survive and thrive on may not be able to pump a single drop. Not to mention that pumping can be painful, and is definitely a pain in the behind and an extra step that isn't necessary.
                      I was speaking more for once a child gets old enough to retain the memories of doing so, to understand fully what they are doing, to discuss it with other children, etc. Just saying, if your child gets to that point and you still want him to have breastmilk for health reasons, consider pumping. If pumping doesn't work, then it doesn't work, then that's not an option.

                      I'm trying not to be defensive, because to a lot of you, this is just a thing that other people, some random person out there does, but to me, it's what I do. It's something I've researched, it's uninformed opinions I've battled with friends and family. That's something to remember when talking parenting
                      There will always be things some of us have first hand experience in and others don't. One thing I have found in life in general is that it doesn't pay to discount the opinions of others simply because they don't have the same experience you do. It inhibits creative thinking, open mindedness, and learning. For many of us without children, such as myself, I have spent my entire life around babies. 98% of my closest friends are mothers. Therefore, from an outside and not emotionally attached perspective, I have seen parenting mistakes made that I have learned from and will retain when if I have children of my own. I have seen exceptional children that I credit in part to their own personality but a big part in the way their parents raise them. I have also had to deal with the exceptionally bratty ridiculous behavior of other children. Their parents considered that behavior "normal" as an excuse for it. But to me...a non-emotionally attached outsider, the behavior was NOT normal and should not have been tolerated. For that very reason, many of my "mother" friends come to me for advice because they know I'm not going to make excuses for the kiddo, or for them. Because THEY know their own perception of things is often skewed and rose colored as a result of their motherly bond with that child. In other words, sometimes it pays to listen to the opinions of "outsiders".

                      And as far as socializing, when do you think kids begin to socialize with other kids? Google says they begin to play interactively with other children around age two ... and the World Health Organization says mothers should breastfeed until at least two years old. That doesn't jive.
                      As I said....for every stance you take, there will ALWAYS be some study or some organization or some doctor that says otherwise. I have memories of my childhood starting around 3-4 years old. I breastfed until I was almost two. I don't have memories of the act of breastfeeding (can't say I'm not thankful for that!). I worked at a daycare during college. I had a 4 year old boy who was still being breastfed. I probably don't need tell you what happened when he was feeling stressed or anxiety during daycare and wanted some "comfort"....he didn't just associate this comfort with his mother, he associated it with breasts. The other children in his age range (4 -7) were already old enough to have been told by their parents about inappropriate touching and "private parts". What was inappropriate to the other children, was normal to him. Is he representative of every child breastfed at age 4? I highly doubt it. But as there are positives associated with AP and extended breastfeeding, there are also negatives. Every mother has to decide what is best for her child. And as with every other aspect of parenting, you can only do what you think is best and hope it's the right thing in the long run. We all know you can do everything by "the book" and still turn out with a messed up kid no matter how hard you try. It comes down to just doing what you, as a mother, feel is right for your individual child.
                      "Be what you're looking for."

                      Comment


                      • There will always be things some of us have first hand experience in and others don't. One thing I have found in life in general is that it doesn't pay to discount the opinions of others simply because they don't have the same experience you do. It inhibits creative thinking, open mindedness, and learning. For many of us without children, such as myself, I have spent my entire life around babies. 98% of my closest friends are mothers. Therefore, from an outside and not emotionally attached perspective, I have seen parenting mistakes made that I have learned from and will retain when if I have children of my own. I have seen exceptional children that I credit in part to their own personality but a big part in the way their parents raise them. I have also had to deal with the exceptionally bratty ridiculous behavior of other children. Their parents considered that behavior "normal" as an excuse for it. But to me...a non-emotionally attached outsider, the behavior was NOT normal and should not have been tolerated. For that very reason, many of my "mother" friends come to me for advice because they know I'm not going to make excuses for the kiddo, or for them. Because THEY know their own perception of things is often skewed and rose colored as a result of their motherly bond with that child. In other words, sometimes it pays to listen to the opinions of "outsiders".
                        I am in somewhat the same position. I do not have friends that are mothers but I have grown up with a dayhome in my home for the past 19 years. My mother ran that dayhome for nearly my entire life, all I have been exposed to my entire life is children from nearly newborns to kids in their teens. We have come across all different parenting styles and differences in children from the too shy child afraid of everything to the bratty and undisciplined, as a result I have coworkers or other friends coming to me asking questions. They know I am just a young woman myself at 23 but they have not had much experience with children until suddenly they do have a child. They ask my opinion because of all that background I have with children in my home and I give them honest answers due to that outside opinion as you describe.
                        There are those who believe that dictionaries should not merely reflect the times but also protect English from the mindless assaults of the trendy.

                        Comment


                        • What does this mean:
                          Originally posted by Little View Post
                          The stopping point, anthropologically, is between 4 and 7 years.
                          Are you saying that other cultures have and do breastfeed until that age or are you trying to say that some natural mark is at that age?


                          I also don't get this:
                          Originally posted by Beautiful Disaster View Post
                          I probably don't need tell you what happened when he was feeling stressed or anxiety during daycare and wanted some "comfort"....he didn't just associate this comfort with his mother, he associated it with breasts. The other children in his age range (4 -7) were already old enough to have been told by their parents about inappropriate touching and "private parts". What was inappropriate to the other children, was normal to him.
                          Are you saying that this kid tried to breastfeed from another child because he was breastfed and that is a reason not to breastfeed older children?
                          "Those sowing seed with tears
                          Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

                          Comment


                          • Are you saying that this kid tried to breastfeed from another child because he was breastfed and that is a reason not to breastfeed older children?
                            Um no. He touched and reached for the breasts of his caretakers. Actually he felt at liberty to touch our breasts whenever he wanted. Those of us that actually have breasts..... not children. To the other children, that was construed as odd behavior especially for the ones that had already been taught about inapproriate touching. It is REALLY hard to make the distinction with children. He was also not appeased with a milk box, or juice, or a snack in those instances. But I also stated that this is not necessarily representative of every child breastfed at that age.
                            "Be what you're looking for."

                            Comment


                            • The stopping point, anthropologically, is between 4 and 7 years.
                              I am confused by this as well. Anthropologically children were breastfed to such an age because physically they needed to live, without that milk they would have died. It was not based on stablishing an emotional bond for several years it was anthropologically meant to keep that child alive if there was no food available. Attached parenting is a relatively new phenomena amongst parenting so I am not sure where anthropological ideas hold any value unless the subject is strictly speaking nutritional reliance.
                              There are those who believe that dictionaries should not merely reflect the times but also protect English from the mindless assaults of the trendy.

                              Comment

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