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Equality

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    Equality

    Originally posted by Stillness View Post
    My parents (mother and stepfather) have been married ten years longer than us. They're probably our closest companions and the relationship I'm most familiar with besides my own. They did have a physical incident a few years after they married. What they agree on is that my stepfather pushed her. He says she got physical first. She didn't seem to disagree, but she left him anyway. She wanted to make it clear that she wasn't tolerating a man abusing her. They got back together and as far as I know, that has never happened again. My mother told me after she left my natural father, that she's easy-going, but she's not going to have any man run over her. She's shown me that with her actions and I respect her deeply for living it all my 42 years.
    This quote from Stillness makes me ask a question: Why is it more acceptable for a woman to physically abuse a man than a man to physically abuse a woman in our supposedly equal society? She wouldn't tolerate a man abusing her but he was supposed to tolerate her abusing him? Society would shame him for not taking the abuse by leaving, calling him weak.
    I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience.
    ...
    Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

    From a speech by Patrick Henry on March 23, 1775 at St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia

    #2
    I think it's the belief that men are stronger and shouldn't be hitting the weaker woman.
    Then of course, if a man is stronger he isn't hurt by a measly woman. He could stop her easily if he wants to.

    They are both unacceptable.

    I do admit tho, that I've had to check myself with this in the past. It's one of the harder things to break - that mentality that I was brought up to believe about women's inferiority to men.

    Comment


      #3
      I don't think it is acceptable anymore. Even in the early 90's (when this incident occurred), it was clear to me that she wasn't an innocent victim. What I suspect happened is that the situation got out of control and she got scared and wanted to make it clear that a violent relationship wasn't tolerable, regardless of where the fault was. I think she also felt that his response was extreme.

      That latter portion is where things get kind of fuzzy. If someone is trying to do serious physical damage to you, I think everyone is cool with self-defense, regardless of the sex. But in the case in question, he wasn't defending himself. There was no danger to him. He got physical with a smaller, weaker person that he's supposed to protect with his life. So there's really not equality. She is inferior.

      Whatever the case, I didn't see it as an abusive type of situation then and I don't now. It was just a domestic squabble.
      "Those sowing seed with tears
      Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Stillness View Post
        I don't think it is acceptable anymore. Even in the early 90's (when this incident occurred), it was clear to me that she wasn't an innocent victim. What I suspect happened is that the situation got out of control and she got scared and wanted to make it clear that a violent relationship wasn't tolerable, regardless of where the fault was. I think she also felt that his response was extreme.

        That latter portion is where things get kind of fuzzy. If someone is trying to do serious physical damage to you, I think everyone is cool with self-defense, regardless of the sex. But in the case in question, he wasn't defending himself. There was no danger to him. He got physical with a smaller, weaker person that he's supposed to protect with his life. So there's really not equality. She is inferior.

        Whatever the case, I didn't see it as an abusive type of situation then and I don't now. It was just a domestic squabble.
        Start something and then cry foul if you don't like the outcome that you cannot control, smh. If he only pushed her, his response was far from extreme. He was definitely holding back. I think that many women don't really get how violent a confrontation between guys can become. After beating the crap out of each other, some guys will hug each other and remain friends.

        As far as taking the damage if it doesn't leave marks, isn't that where Goliath became overconfident in his battle with David. He thought David couldn't do damage so he let his guard down. After condescendingly believing a woman cannot do damage, what are you going to do when she picks up a butcher knife and sticks it deep into you?

        I can say one thing. That confrontation was probably necessary so that both knew what was and wasn't expected. It probably led to a healthier relationship.
        I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience.
        ...
        Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

        From a speech by Patrick Henry on March 23, 1775 at St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia

        Comment


          #5
          occasionally, I will try to tickle husband which he does not like
          he will warn me and say watch it, you'll get hurt to get me to stop because he has grabbed my wrists to stop me
          and I've said that hurts (but I started the tickling) so he warns me

          Comment


            #6

            it's surprising how many fights/yelling I've heard on our street (some of it's parents yelling at teens)
            and police have come twice for a couple fighting

            Comment


              #7
              C'mon, jns. You've been married long enough to have conflicts - in an intercultural relationship, no less. Whose fault are they? Maybe one person's sometimes, but often both share blame. Do they amount to abuse? Conflict is not the same as abuse and it's not really something easily assessed by someone outside. Even the people involved struggle to figure things out.

              That's why I stay out of other people's business. Even in my teens that was my policy with them. It's probably why we're so close now. If there had been an abusive situation, I would have gotten involved.

              Abuse is more of a pattern of extreme mistreatment. Do people even still have the concept that women can't be abusers? Maybe they think of them more as emotional offenders, but they can be responsible for physical abuse too. I think people get that now, but maybe I'm wrong.
              "Those sowing seed with tears
              Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by amy40 View Post
                occasionally, I will try to tickle husband which he does not like
                he will warn me and say watch it, you'll get hurt to get me to stop because he has grabbed my wrists to stop me
                and I've said that hurts (but I started the tickling) so he warns me
                That's the down side of physical play - someone gets hurt. Always a bummer.

                I had to keep warning my wife about jumping out and scaring me. It's only fun for one side and I felt like I might hurt her one day if she jumped out too close and startled me. We still hide, but no jumping out. I stopped too...equality and all.
                "Those sowing seed with tears
                Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think laying hands on someone in anger this way, constitutes abuse. Just as verbal or mental or emotional. It may be a single incident or ongoing. I still think it's abusive tho, and doesn't matter whether male or female.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    David and Goliath

                    our kid's bible says Goliath laughed as David was just a boy

                    I say....
                    Goliath could have saved his life had he thrown down his sword and said "I'm not fighting a boy"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by atskitty2 View Post
                      I think laying hands on someone in anger this way, constitutes abuse. Just as verbal or mental or emotional. It may be a single incident or ongoing.
                      I guess I'd have to agree, technically. I just think in terms of a pattern of behavior when someone talks about abuse. I'd also say that words can be just as bad as physical pain. Calling someone stupid is as bad as hitting them, in my opinion.

                      I'm grateful that we've avoided that kind of stuff until now. I'm too sensitive. I feel like I'd be scarred forever if something like that happened. The one argument we did have was just an angry disagreement - no name-calling, hurtful words, or physical contact.
                      "Those sowing seed with tears
                      Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Stillness View Post
                        I'd also say that words can be just as bad as physical pain. Calling someone stupid is as bad as hitting them, in my opinion.
                        think I've seen contempt listed as a predictor of divorce
                        so when people fight, if they're calling each other names, putting each other down, chances are it won't last

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I do agree Still, that a pattern of abuse is more serious than an abusive incident. An incident can be a catalyst for the needed changes, as it seemed to be for them.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A woman can be equally capable of abuse as a man. I do think women have been looked on as the weaker sex, therefore should not be capable of violence. Unfortunately, we all know there are plenty of violent women in prison. Violence is unacceptable: no matter the gender. Equality in any relationship is always vital. And conflict is natural. It is only when aggression and violence are used there is a problem.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Interesting discussion. I've always felt that absolutely no physical attack is permissible.
                              My wife struck me once, I warned here never to let it happen again or I'd hit back...
                              Then once she tried one of her self-defense class moves on me, essentially tried to break one of my fingers; fortunately that move is not quite as effective as advertised, but it left me with a sprain, and I refused to speak to her for a week afterward. But I never struck her.

                              Comment

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