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  • jane86 I don't have any such meaning dear. I just was curious about how you are managing the things and nothing else. I apologise if you understood me in any wrong way.
    Last edited by summer21031985; 10-22-2023, 08:44 PM.

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    • I am so confused. There is so much back and forth from: I am not happy with the dishonesty, I am going to be honest, to I'm telling half truths, not wanting to hurt his feelings, to I am going o be honest wit him, even agreeing to be honest, and then not doing so. I love the path of realization and awakening sexually but I do not get the other??? Is this an honest relationship or what is it? Again, I am so confused...

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      • Originally posted by WowWhoKnew View Post
        I am so confused. There is so much back and forth from: I am not happy with the dishonesty, I am going to be honest, to I'm telling half truths, not wanting to hurt his feelings, to I am going o be honest wit him, even agreeing to be honest, and then not doing so. I love the path of realization and awakening sexually but I do not get the other??? Is this an honest relationship or what is it? Again, I am so confused...
        Hi. I'm sure you're right. I have never actually re-read all my posts since this all started but I totally get how confusing it must all sound. There were days when I myself changed my mind several times about what to do and what to say about the situation. Depending when I wrote my posts, one state of mind or another might have been prevailing.

        And I admit I haven't always been totally honest with my husband, but I hope what comes across is that I never meant to hurt him, and any lies or half truths I told were for his benefit, to avoid causing him what I thought was unnecessary pain at the time. I wasn't always right in my decisions but my intentions were good.

        In the end (I don't know if you read that far) we have reached a balance which means lies are no longer necessary. He knows everything I do and is on board with it. I'm not complacent, I realise this is a delicate balance that requires constant care. We talk more now than we've ever talked before, so regardless whether the current arrangement endures, I really believe what has happened recently has been beneficial to our relationship. We understand each other much better, many truths have come out about each other that needed to be told and we're generally in a stronger place as a couple.

        I don't know if this helps in any way, this has never been a straightforward situation and in many ways we're still working things out as we go.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jane86 View Post

          In the end (I don't know if you read that far) we have reached a balance which means lies are no longer necessary. He knows everything I do and is on board with it. I'm not complacent, I realise this is a delicate balance that requires constant care. We talk more now than we've ever talked before, so regardless whether the current arrangement endures, I really believe what has happened recently has been beneficial to our relationship. We understand each other much better, many truths have come out about each other that needed to be told and we're generally in a stronger place as a couple.

          I don't know if this helps in any way, this has never been a straightforward situation and in many ways we're still working things out as we go.
          I agree wholeheartedly, it takes constant care to maintain heathy marriages/relationships. I am glad that the two of you have figured out that as well as talking openly, honestly, no matter, is so incredibly important. You had me worried there for a bit. For my husband and I, we discovered wonderful truths as well and you are correct, it is a process getting there. The journey getting there was long, slow, through lots of patience & understanding. For us a few main things are upfront honesty, though well tempered when discussing it initially; also being present, we have to be there to connect. Connecting/sharing the experiences are why we do everything, or what's the point? Everything we do it to improve Us.

          Would you share what truths you have both discovered and how do you believe they have made the two of you stronger? I think this is important for others to see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you are okay with speaking more on this. Thank you for letting us walk in this journey with you.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WowWhoKnew View Post

            I agree wholeheartedly, it takes constant care to maintain heathy marriages/relationships. I am glad that the two of you have figured out that as well as talking openly, honestly, no matter, is so incredibly important. You had me worried there for a bit. For my husband and I, we discovered wonderful truths as well and you are correct, it is a process getting there. The journey getting there was long, slow, through lots of patience & understanding. For us a few main things are upfront honesty, though well tempered when discussing it initially; also being present, we have to be there to connect. Connecting/sharing the experiences are why we do everything, or what's the point? Everything we do it to improve Us.

            Would you share what truths you have both discovered and how do you believe they have made the two of you stronger? I think this is important for others to see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you are okay with speaking more on this. Thank you for letting us walk in this journey with you.
            I didn't realise you had been through a similar journey yourself. I am now very intrigued, especially as you seem to be a bit further into that journey, so I would be very keen to pick your brain.

            I totally get that being present would make for a much richer experience for us. My lover doesn't have an issue with that, it's my husband who doesn't feel ready yet.

            During the first threesome we had, there were both upsides and downsides to my husband's presence. Obviously that first experience was all about sexual discovery for me, and I would have loved to share those discoveries with my husband, through my eyes and my voice if nothing else, but he was almost paralysed by his own jealousy, in ways neither of us had anticipated. So while it felt good to share the things he was able to cope with, the rest upset him too much. I sensed his pain, and that in turn affected my own enjoyment.

            When we attempted a second threesome, there were some positives in terms of him being more active and willing to learn, but ultimately the negatives outweighed the positives. That was when he unfortunately decided he was not strong enough to deal with his own emotions, so we changed the nature of our arrangement.

            He's a very visual person, and the physical proximity to the action was too overwhelming for him. When I give him a verbal account of my encounters with my lover, I can be more tactful and describe things in such a way as to arouse him, but not upset him. I am still working towards gradually normalising those images in his head, to prepare him to eventually rejoin in person, because I think I'd like that. I am disclosing as much as I think is safe and so far he has coped better and better each time.

            As I pointed out previously, my main concern with him rejoining would not be to do with the physical aspect of the lovemaking, all of which my husband is now aware of. But the nature of my connection with my lover has changed and evolved with each meeting, and that part I have not been able to disclose to my husband. I simply don't know how to explain it to him in a way that won't cause him major upset.

            I have focused so much on the physical sensations I feel, that I fear the impression he has formed of the relationship is that it's purely based on "friction", number of orgasms, exchange of bodily fluids and so on. That much he can cope with, as if my lover was nothing more than a sophisticated sex toy that's only there for my pleasure. I know it's my own fault for projecting that idea, but I was only trying to spare him unnecessary hurt.

            I'm conscious that unless I start to disclose to him the true nature of my relationship with my lover, it will become less and less possible for me to do so further down the line. Also, if my husband suddenly turned round and said to me 'I think I'm ready to be present again' what would I do? Tell my lover 'look, my husband is going to join us again but we can't be fully ourselves in front of him, we have to be less loving'?

            Apart from anything else, I'd hate to change the way I am with him. The emotions I experience with him are just as important to me as the physical stuff, perhaps more. In fact I'm sure they are one and the same, they can't be separated.

            I want to make this clear again: it's not the same kind of love I feel for my husband. That's unique and irreplaceable, made up of all the experiences we've shared over the years, as well as the affection and profound respect we feel for each other.

            The love I feel when I'm with my lover is transient, it lasts as long as I'm with him, it's a powerful bond but it doesn't bleed into my everyday life. I don't find myself day-dreaming about his beautiful eyes when I'm doing the dishes. But when we're together, there's definitely love there.

            Sometimes I think the word Love isn't enough to cover all the different kinds of love we experience. After all we don't love our parents the same way as we love our friends, or our kids the same way as our partners. So maybe we need more words to describe these different loves. I love my husband, and that love is massive and unwavering. But I also love my lover, in a way that I find hard to describe to you, and impossible (or too dangerous) to describe to my husband.

            Sorry, you were looking for truths from me but all I can come up with is more confusion. I guess we're still at a really early stage and we need to do much more of the kind of talking you've already done. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

            Have you been in a similar situation of catching feels for your lover? When your husband is present (which I gather is always) how much affection towards your lover do you allow yourself to display? Or is your husband ok with that aspect?

            Comment


            • Our process of course began in self-discovery with each other. Typical clueless young people going through the natural motion of carnal desire sexing it left & right, up & down, and all over – lol. One day my husband asks me to teach him how to perform oral better on me. I was stumped. I had never done oral (on a girl); I had no idea what to tell him, admitting as much. A long discussion ensued realizing we didn’t have a clue about most of what we were doing. I was equally not very good at bjs. Well darn it, it was time to learn.

              We attempted to learn on our own as a couple, guiding the other as best we could. Then we searched for proven techniques. That was laughable. Fake, vague, inconsistent information was everywhere. We asked sex therapists, a total joke. All they wanted to talk about emotional aspects – oh my GAAAAUUUUGGGHHH! I doubt any of them knew any more than we did on a practical physical level. Then I ran across an article about men, prostate, oral, and more - a life changer for us. We even applied what we learned to me, with good results. Creating more oral interests, play, and opening up, we attempted things we’d never done for the sole reason of, “Why not, what do we have to lose?” We realized we didn’t even know our own bodies, a challenge we took on and quickly remedied. I’d never thought in a millions years I’d be available for some of what we did (and still do) but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Our sex life expanded.

              As I have mentioned, we did/do everything together (except some of the clean and prep). We learned, grew, explored, experimented. What an amazing journey. It is much more fun when you discover together, “OH MY I didn’t know that could go there and do that?” There have been more than a few times where we had to push through, keep trying, practice until you get past the reluctance, all of a sudden with a WHAM – WOW – HOLY Mackerel I am SOOOO Glad I stuck with It!

              Eventually we gave in to sex toys. Once again, another leap for couple-kind, Wow, who knew? That’s how we ran across in depth teaching, training, and insights. I love the training being offered by good healthy sex toy companies who get that many of us do not have a clue. What we have/are learning playing with toys has been transformative. It has taken a great deal of time to get where we are but oh so worth the trip. My husband is willing to try anything that I am interested in (which to me says a lot about a man), uninhibited, upfront, vocal, he curls me toes and much more these days. I’ve never had a man become so intuitive.

              There is absolutely nothing we do not share with regards to our sexual interests. We are always present when one or the other desires to play, show off, or have orgasms. I love looking deep into his eyes when it is taking place, holding on to him, encouraging him, loving him. The same goes for him. We make a connection every time without fail. We share with not only with our eyes, voices, touch, but also on a much, much deeper level as we have both experienced whatever is happening and are able to relate, feel, sync with each other. The orgasms are mind-blowing.


              “He's a very visual person, and the physical proximity to the action was too overwhelming for him.”

              We are both as well and that is why we would both need to be present at all times. Neither of us wants to miss out on any aspect of what is happening.


              “Also, if my husband suddenly turned round and said to me 'I think I'm ready to be present again' what would I do? Tell my lover 'look, my husband is going to join us again but we can't be fully ourselves in front of him, we have to be less loving'?

              I’d roleplay that one out with him with varying degrees paying attention to his body reactions. We have to be naked even when we test out new ideas so that we are better able to see a full reaction. In reality you may have to tone it down a bit and gradually work your way into more. When I finally became gung ho about oral, I totally had to dial it back until my husband caught up with me. Surprisingly it was a turn on trying to hold back.


              “Have you been in a similar situation of catching feels for your lover? When your husband is present (which I gather is always) how much affection towards your lover do you allow yourself to display? Or is your husband ok with that aspect?

              You are way ahead of us on this. That is why I found your post so intriguing. I want to understand as much of the dynamics as possible, which you are providing so much of. I’ve seen posts where everything was perfection, with no hiccups, most likely leaving out those aspects of it to not distract from the all steaminess the writer was attempting to vent. I want real, raw, hey this had not been a perfect journey, and we are stumbling around find our way but making it. Like the two of you! Again, thank you.

              Opening up a marriage like the two of you have is fraught with what can go wrong. This is not to be taken as insensitive to the men, but it often seems that they are the instigators expecting all this crazy wild live porn sex not understanding that there is so much more going on here, almost always, even more so if it is being done separately. I know I’d get attached if I was alone with another person one on one. How can one not, given what is going on? It’s to personal, intimate, special, even if it is an attempt a just raw sex. Men often times forget this. As you alluded to, it’s not simply numbers, stats, and score cards.

              Hate to say it, but it’s their own fault if they get themselves in a pickle. There are sooooo many great books on how to understand us ladies. They need to read them – ALL!

              What to do when it happens? When our men mistake sex only as statistics? Trudge through it, redefine as you have put it, continue working, making adjustments, talk, talk, talk, talk , talk, and find what fits/acceptable. What I hate to see is when people give up and stop trying. There is nothing that cannot be fixed, however a few knuckleheads might need to be knocked in the process. J
              ?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WowWhoKnew View Post
                Our process of course began in self-discovery with each other. Typical clueless young people going through the natural motion of carnal desire sexing it left & right, up & down, and all over – lol. One day my husband asks me to teach him how to perform oral better on me. I was stumped. I had never done oral (on a girl); I had no idea what to tell him, admitting as much. A long discussion ensued realizing we didn’t have a clue about most of what we were doing. I was equally not very good at bjs. Well darn it, it was time to learn.

                We attempted to learn on our own as a couple, guiding the other as best we could. Then we searched for proven techniques. That was laughable. Fake, vague, inconsistent information was everywhere. We asked sex therapists, a total joke. All they wanted to talk about emotional aspects – oh my GAAAAUUUUGGGHHH! I doubt any of them knew any more than we did on a practical physical level. Then I ran across an article about men, prostate, oral, and more - a life changer for us. We even applied what we learned to me, with good results. Creating more oral interests, play, and opening up, we attempted things we’d never done for the sole reason of, “Why not, what do we have to lose?” We realized we didn’t even know our own bodies, a challenge we took on and quickly remedied. I’d never thought in a millions years I’d be available for some of what we did (and still do) but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Our sex life expanded.

                As I have mentioned, we did/do everything together (except some of the clean and prep). We learned, grew, explored, experimented. What an amazing journey. It is much more fun when you discover together, “OH MY I didn’t know that could go there and do that?” There have been more than a few times where we had to push through, keep trying, practice until you get past the reluctance, all of a sudden with a WHAM – WOW – HOLY Mackerel I am SOOOO Glad I stuck with It!

                Eventually we gave in to sex toys. Once again, another leap for couple-kind, Wow, who knew? That’s how we ran across in depth teaching, training, and insights. I love the training being offered by good healthy sex toy companies who get that many of us do not have a clue. What we have/are learning playing with toys has been transformative. It has taken a great deal of time to get where we are but oh so worth the trip. My husband is willing to try anything that I am interested in (which to me says a lot about a man), uninhibited, upfront, vocal, he curls me toes and much more these days. I’ve never had a man become so intuitive.

                There is absolutely nothing we do not share with regards to our sexual interests. We are always present when one or the other desires to play, show off, or have orgasms. I love looking deep into his eyes when it is taking place, holding on to him, encouraging him, loving him. The same goes for him. We make a connection every time without fail. We share with not only with our eyes, voices, touch, but also on a much, much deeper level as we have both experienced whatever is happening and are able to relate, feel, sync with each other. The orgasms are mind-blowing.


                “He's a very visual person, and the physical proximity to the action was too overwhelming for him.”

                We are both as well and that is why we would both need to be present at all times. Neither of us wants to miss out on any aspect of what is happening.


                “Also, if my husband suddenly turned round and said to me 'I think I'm ready to be present again' what would I do? Tell my lover 'look, my husband is going to join us again but we can't be fully ourselves in front of him, we have to be less loving'?

                I’d roleplay that one out with him with varying degrees paying attention to his body reactions. We have to be naked even when we test out new ideas so that we are better able to see a full reaction. In reality you may have to tone it down a bit and gradually work your way into more. When I finally became gung ho about oral, I totally had to dial it back until my husband caught up with me. Surprisingly it was a turn on trying to hold back.


                “Have you been in a similar situation of catching feels for your lover? When your husband is present (which I gather is always) how much affection towards your lover do you allow yourself to display? Or is your husband ok with that aspect?

                You are way ahead of us on this. That is why I found your post so intriguing. I want to understand as much of the dynamics as possible, which you are providing so much of. I’ve seen posts where everything was perfection, with no hiccups, most likely leaving out those aspects of it to not distract from the all steaminess the writer was attempting to vent. I want real, raw, hey this had not been a perfect journey, and we are stumbling around find our way but making it. Like the two of you! Again, thank you.

                Opening up a marriage like the two of you have is fraught with what can go wrong. This is not to be taken as insensitive to the men, but it often seems that they are the instigators expecting all this crazy wild live porn sex not understanding that there is so much more going on here, almost always, even more so if it is being done separately. I know I’d get attached if I was alone with another person one on one. How can one not, given what is going on? It’s to personal, intimate, special, even if it is an attempt a just raw sex. Men often times forget this. As you alluded to, it’s not simply numbers, stats, and score cards.

                Hate to say it, but it’s their own fault if they get themselves in a pickle. There are sooooo many great books on how to understand us ladies. They need to read them – ALL!

                What to do when it happens? When our men mistake sex only as statistics? Trudge through it, redefine as you have put it, continue working, making adjustments, talk, talk, talk, talk , talk, and find what fits/acceptable. What I hate to see is when people give up and stop trying. There is nothing that cannot be fixed, however a few knuckleheads might need to be knocked in the process. J
                ?
                What a great post, you and your husband have such an amazing relationship! I feel we could learn a lot from you.

                I'm definitely going to take on board your suggestion of role playing the threesome scenario, I think my husband might be ready for it again. Depending on his reaction, I might be able to prepare him for a repeat, however slowly.

                You seem to know so much about toys as well, sometimes I use a wand but mostly I'm a freehand girl, I wonder if I've been missing out.

                So refreshing to hear a voice daring to dispel the myth of sex counselling as the solution to all relationship problems. Sometimes I go on these forums and wonder how many of the men and women replying to any kind of question with the old "you should get sex counselling" have actually gone through any form of counselling themselves, and how many are just using it as the easiest of get-out lines, a bit like when someone writes "I've got this skin rash here, what could it be" and 99% of contributors reply "go a see a doctor". Well, thanks a bunch genius, I'd have never thought of that! Totally unhelpful.

                So have you and your husband discussed introducing a third? Is it something you role play about? Would you ever consider it in real life? If so, how would you go about it?

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