[regularguy]

Hello,

I am just looking for advice or feedback.

I have recently split up with my girlfriend of three years. I was shocked to find that I haven't been as upset as I expected.

I met her just over three years ago, she approached me in a nightclub and I thought she looked really young, so I asked her how old she was. She was eight years my younger. I thought it would be more. That night we went back to mine, we kissed a little and she stayed over, but there was no sex. The next day we had fun just lying on the sofa and watched TV.
I think I fell for her then, she seemed beautiful, fun and not an easy lay. (that is important to me, when looking for a girl to date)
So we started to date, we ended up having sex on our fourth date and things went from there. We got along amazingly, fun all the time, soon she was staying at my place all week and before I knew it, she had clothes in my closet (the secret move in).

At the time I met her, she was in her final year of Uni, studying to be a teacher. I found this attractive too. I met her parents and they took an instant liking to me. However, her friends all seemed to be surprised that she had a boyfriend. I had a few sly remarks on how I dealt with her shouting and had I seen her out partying before?

She was quite demanding with sex and that was fine by me, she is gorgeous, so that's awesome.

Before I knew it, we were moving in together. I had explained that i would cover the rent if she covered the food until she finished Uni and then we would work out the bills etc again from there. I fully expected her to get a job.

She, had done a few acting gigs and was trying to get into acting even more.

Anyway, when I met more of her friends, I had noticed that there were some inside jokes being made infront of me, I didn't care, I didn't really want to know.

One guy was putting movies on her computer, making comments about how she would like them...wink wink...

Sometime later, she started to tell me that she had hooked up with a celebrity, I said I wasn't interested in her past. That I only cared about her and I, so don't tell me. She very slyly asked me questions about celebs on and off, one of which I really dislike. He is the - of hollywood, always bragging about doing damage and sleeping around, a total douche.

She also started telling me that she had dated lots of guys and never really had a boyfriend, I said I really didn't want to know.

Based on this information she asked me one night to leave the apartment and go see a friend because she wanted to watch a movie with him in it and she knew that I didn't like him. So I agreed. She had several of his films on her computer, some of which her friend had copied over and made jokes about.

Anyway, about a month later her friend told me that my girlfriend had slept with this actor four years prior to meeting me. I can't explain it, but I was mortified, this guy is gross, but more importantly I felt betrayed, I felt that my girlfriend was still hung up on this guy, watching his movies and asking me to leave the apartment so she could do it. And her friend were still making fun of it secretly in front of me.

She freaked out, she was angry and upset, crying, screaming, running down the street when she found out I knew. I asked her why her friend would tell me this, I was ****ed off. She denied it at first and then, went on to tell me all the details, he came in to a bar she worked at and told her she was beautiful and gave her his number. After work (4am) she went round to his hotel and slept with him for three days, and then he left.

Even writing this now, I feel a little sick.

I tried to get over it, she knew I didn't like the fact that he was on the TV all the time, in the cinema, TMZ, where ever we went he was there....bragging about banging chicks...he really is a douchebag.

Strangely, she started to insult me, call me names, fat, old, gay, crazy. She said she settled for me. My self confidence started to crack, and i am a pretty confident guy.

I also started to discover her getting texts off guys, asking for dates, giving her compliments. She even met a few and told her friend she had crushes on them (they were all B celebs, a guy from the Tudors, a guy from some horror flicks, a wannabe rapper, a guy from a play she was in) one of them even text her asking if he could come over for sex cos he though I was out of town.

She said i was jealous, I said it wasn't jealousy, it was a matter of respect. She would stay out till 7 and 8am...with her friends from the bar. I worked at 8am everyday.

My confidence had vanished, i was secret smoking, putting on weight, feeling really strange about sex (almost scared).

The insults became worse, my self esteem was smashed and I was depressed. I couldn't face sex with her, she started to tell me that one night stands were better than me and she was leaving....I was screwed.

To add insult to injury, I was paying all the bills, rent, etc...and she was just sitting around all day, working in a bar at the eve, getting attention from guys.

it was awful....

Recently I lost my job, I was in dispair. But I told myself to get away for a while, I took myself to Thailand for two months, she went to Australia for a month and then came to visit me.

I started to box again and lost 35lbs...as soon as I started to lose the weight, she told me I was conceited. But when I was a little chubby she called me a fat old man.

She told me, that she wanted to move to Oz....and that I was a conceited, gay old man.

Now her family and friends, are very supportive of me since we split. Her parents said they love me like a son and do not want their daughter in the house. They think she is awful, to the point of disowning her.

She started to reach out to me, asking if we could talk, I said yes, she said she had -ed up etc. So we arranged to meet. The night before I was supposed to meet her, I found her outside a nightclub at 5am. I asked her what she was doing and she said waiting for a girl...then a guy cam over and grabbed her phone and asked if they were leaving.

I just walked off, I watched for a while down the street, she got in a cab with him and left. The next day, she called me saying hey babe are we still metting. I said no...she demanded that I come see her, I said no....she started calling me names again, so I calle her a . and put the phone down.

Now she is claiming that I have ruined her reputation with friends and her relationship with her parents....

I feel as if I have been taken for a ride, used as a whipping post when she felt bad about herself and used as a source of affection when wanted attention....

She blames me for everything.... says i am nuts and its all my fault.

What do you think?

[jns]

Interesting story. In such a situation, I would think your only fault would be to go after her in the first place without finding out more about her personality and character. A person who has great looks and is messed up in the head isn't worth the time and trouble to try to change them. Usually it doesn't work, anyway.

[Hugo-B]

This girl is what we call in London a 'wannabe WAG', want's to be the wife or girlfriend of a celebrity, or at least wants the lifestyle and status of one.

Assuming everything you've told us is factual and correct:

Avoid her like the plague and let this be an important lesson. She's an externally verified,good time girl, gold digging tramp with a sense of entitlement and a narcissistic streak a mile long. Nothing is ever her fault and her lack of compassion for others fails to allow her to see anything from anyone's perspective other than her own. Women like this (sirens) are a curse to the men who fall in love with them.

I'm afraid she did use you and take you for a ride (in the good and bad sense) women like this tend to be hot like you said, which makes them harder to get rid of and rather uninhibited in the sack, making them even harder to get rid of. Whilst her family are supportive of your stance - which is great - I would change your number and cut them all off. She'll likely turn up at your place unannounced and uninvited, especially when/if she hears you've met someone else, and she'll do her best to ruin it for you by telling you she wants to try again.

Let her go out and be pumped and dumped by minor celebrities if that's what she wants. My best friend was in love with a girl like this for years and he practically let her break him up into little pieces until he was a complete mess.

The only thing I can say in her defense is that there was likely some kind of determinant in her child hood which damaged her and precipitated this kind of behavior. She is messed up and needs to want help before she can make any progress, but that's outside your control and not your problem. She's given you enough problems of your own already.

My advice would be to ruthlessly, and I can't stress this enough - ruthlessly, ruthlessly avoid her at all costs - change your number, don't speak to her, let her in your house, anything. Just stay away from her. Like I said she'll try everything, she's already putting the guilt trip on you relentlessly.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

What he said.

Let's go back though. You were hot enough for her to latch onto you at the beginning, she is a WAG "wannabe", a princess.

I am sorry that you feel that it's all you, if it was the family and friends would not be by your side.

Think about it.

[Hugo-B]

The problem with women like this is - apart from them not accepting any blame, responsibility and liability for their actions - they have no moral compunction about blaming anyone else for it. And when you tell someone whom you are influential over, i.e., someone who loves you something often enough they'll start to believe it. I won't go over what she's doe because you know more than anyone, but trust me you're lucky you got away this lightly.

My friend who was in your situation let his 'WAG': give him 2 STD's (on separate occasions), ruin numerous subsequent relationships (each time he met someone she'd want to 'try again' and then dump him, got pregnant and he had to wait until the baby was born before he found out he wasn't the father, drive him close to insanity etc... I know of two men she LITERALLY BANKRUPTED, emotionally as well as financially, I might add. He is one of the toughest macho type guys you'll meet and I lost count of the number of times I had him literally crying down the phone about her. I think he even had to go to counseling at one point.

We're men here, there's no shame in falling for a hot woman, beauty (in all of it's various forms, with physical being the easiest to identify initially) and hot sex cloud our judgement and intoxicate us. You've learned the hard way it is only skin deep, and beneath that skin is shallowness, selfishness, and downright malevolence.

Be prepared for this vicious cycle to repeat if you even dare go back there just once - and she'll come back when she's bored and in need of validation, don't worry about that, you haven't seen the last of her - and don't say I didn't tell you so if you ignore me.

[regularguy]

This is spot on.

The problem with women like this is - apart from them not accepting any blame, responsibility and liability for their actions - they have no moral compunction about blaming anyone else for it. And when you tell someone whom you are influential over, i.e., someone who loves you something often enough they'll start to believe it.

she LITERALLY BANKRUPTED, emotionally as well as financially, I might add. He is one of the toughest macho type guys you'll meet and I lost count of the number of times I had him literally crying down the phone about her. I think he even had to go to counseling at one point.

This is spot on, she blamed me for everything, would actually tell me the reason she was so angry and ****************************************y was because I made her that way. I started to believe it. There was always some sort of twisted logic, that I knew wasn't right but couldn't make sense of. She totally emotionally bankrupted me, I had this feeling inside that I couldn't even begin to explain, at first it felt like I was about to get sick, like the flu or something, a kind of buzz in my shoulders and head and my belly felt odd. Then I realized I had it all the time, and it would turn into fear. That's when I started to shut down. Literally I would be inside my body/head looking out like a cave watching her freak out, shout and scream, her name calling was intense. She would throw things and then cry and then go quiet and then come over for a hug. The cycle usually lasted about two hours. I ended up just sitting and watching I happen. In the end I would look at her and want to cry because I didn't know her, I wanted to cry when she touched me. I was horrific...

Don't get me wrong, usually I was a get over yourself kind of guy, straight forward and confident. I tell myself when I am being stupid all the time. I am the guy that takes time to listen to my buddies and give advice, go for a chat, etc. So I knew I was screwed, I literally told one person through the whole three years. I was so embarrassed about how weak I felt. When she texted me after we split up and I had some distance, I was shocked at the things I would say back to her. Not that they were bad or out of order, just that they were true. I would never say these things when I was with her, but I always wanted to. She denies everything now, that's her defence, it never happened.

There is so much that happened, I could never start to write it all down. But one of the worst experiences was, (she could only come orally) so I was going down on her and after she came, she stood up and threw a rag in my face that she had prepared and said wipe your face and then stormed out of the room. Started calling me names etc. I can't explain what that did to me, I felt sick, I felt powerless. I couldn't go near her sexually again without feeling anxious, I think that pretty much ended our sexual relationship...it just evaporated from there.

Her name calling just beat me up, texts, verbally, etc. The blame for everything was ridiculous, if something didn't happen exactly her way.....boom. Oh god, writing this is actually really good because it helps me remember it with some sort of distance. When I was in it, I knew it was bad, but it was like being lost in a forest. Now I am out, it's like looking at it from a beach and saying I am not going in there..... ha ha...jeeeeez. I used to sit in my car and cry, people thought she was a fun girl. My buddy never really believed that she was so nuts, he just used to say well she loves you and girls are nuts. He knows now, but at the time I felt like she had everyone fooled.

It's weird, there was one phrase that would make her act really odd. I can't remember the context of me saying it, but I know I was being sarcastic about something, poking fun, having a giggle early in the relationship. I said to her 'good girl' and she absolutely lost it. Really went crazy, don't ever say that to me again, I hate that phrase....never say that to me. Needless to say I never did, but I remember thinking, was that a childhood thing.

I do think that something may have happened to her at some point, the 'black out' drunk she woud get sometimes was a sure sign that guy could've and probably did take advantage of her. But it was her, one night stands are great attitude, dating *******s means no attachment comments, I should be single again....I can't do relationships.....now tell me you love me and give me attention for hours, behaviour which was nuts.

[Hugo-B]

I'll bet she'd freak out and go crazy insane then, exactly when it suited her she would just pick up where and when she felt like it and act like nothing had happened? You probably began to accept this and were just relieved there would be no more fighting for... hopefully as long as possible.

The self esteem of a woman like this balances precariously on exactly what men think of her - the more men and the more they think of her - the better. Irrational and provocative behavior will be two main tools to invoke this attention, and sex will be the method of choice in which she express and experiences it.

There's no point dwelling on all of this, it's in the past, that girl is damaged, and the damage is well beyond your ability to heal, nor is it your responsibility to offer her any more support. She's burned that bridge.

[jns]

It sounds like she may be bipolar or have another affliction where she gets her validation from many others because she cannot get it internally.

[regularguy]

Yeah the bipolar and narcissistic traits are huge on the list (even her folks have commented on it). It was like air that was thick prior to the outburst, you knew it was coming. Then boom, two hours of intense insults and shouting, threats to leave, etc. Then lying on the bed crying and then, quiet and then creeping for a hug or cuddle.... Or literally an explosion a walk out and then a few hours later as if nothing had happened or been said.

Like I say, I feel very different out of the relationship, it's only been three months. The first month I felt nothing, I was thinking I was weird for not having any emotion, then a little anger and tearyness, but not too much. No panic at all. I am not interested in dating at all, but I see beautiful girls all the time, it's summer after all. Now I am just logically trying to look at the whole thing and trying to grab something from it. I would never get back with her, i have no desire to, I know it and everyone else does too. I suppose the best thing I got from it was a slimmer body, ha ha, I turned all her fat, old man comments into a slimmer me and the comments about how I was going to be alone forever and only date old hags just seem ridiculous now. I suppose, I think, I just want an apology, but I now I'll never get it. I am just getting used to the new me, I seem a little alien to myself, in looks and attitude. But actually I think I am just starting to adjust to feeling normal or relieved.

[Hugo-B]

Yeah the bipolar and narcissistic traits are huge on the list (even her folks have commented on it). It was like air that was thick prior to the outburst, you knew it was coming. Then boom, two hours of intense insults and shouting, threats to leave, etc. Then lying on the bed crying and then, quiet and then creeping for a hug or cuddle.... Or literally an explosion a walk out and then a few hours later as if nothing had happened or been said.

Like I say, I feel very different out of the relationship, it's only been three months. The first month I felt nothing, I was thinking I was weird for not having any emotion, then a little anger and tearyness, but not too much. No panic at all. I am not interested in dating at all, but I see beautiful girls all the time, it's summer after all. Now I am just logically trying to look at the whole thing and trying to grab something from it. I would never get back with her, i have no desire to, I know it and everyone else does too. I suppose the best thing I got from it was a slimmer body, ha ha, I turned all her fat, old man comments into a slimmer me and the comments about how I was going to be alone forever and only date old hags just seem ridiculous now. I suppose, I think, I just want an apology, but I now I'll never get it. I am just getting used to the new me, I seem a little alien to myself, in looks and attitude. But actually I think I am just starting to adjust to feeling normal or relieved.

This is a perfect example of how men can be affected by emotional and psychological abuse, just like women can.

I had a business partner who was as vitriolic and unpleasant as her (a man and the relationship was obviously business, not sexual) but the basic tenets of the unpleasant behavior she showed in your relationship were the same. I've also had a few crazy GF's, not quite as bad as the OP's, but bad enough. So I feel qualified to comment.

People like this see attributes in others they feel they are unable to emulate, become jealous and resort to trying to 'bring them down' to make themselves feel better since they can't compete (yes, they see it as a competition), or aren't prepared (to selfish and lack the inner confidence) to put the work in to try and develop those positive traits. People like this are to be avoided at all costs, they are toxic and only ever bring others down with them.

If you ever feel you need reassurance that you weren't in the wrong, going back to the comments and observations of third parties like her friends and family will tell you all you need to know. For them to take her side is a HUGE black mark on her credibility, I needn't even say any more on that.

Like I said in a thread previously: there are two ways to win a race, train longer and harder, with more dedication than the competition; or sabotage them.

We all know which category this girl feel into.