[Hugo-B]

It's almost like you are this guy. Lol. You got it down to a T. The last time I talked to him was the 5th. I had went over late around 11 and left around 2am. I haven't heard from him since. I normally take the initiative talk to him first. But after the other night, I just got to thinking too much and wanted to get my thoughts together before I went any further. Normally we text everyday but for the past two days we haven't. And I'm kind of proud of myself. lol I think I am going to take your advice and put the brakes on a bit and just let things run it's course. Hopefully it won't be too late. the parents thing is kind of awkward. We haven't spoke since I was like 14. and when I go over to his house I say hi to his parents but it's very weird situation. I fell like they look at me as some girl that comes over to screw his son. So I also hope that will change over time as well. I really enjoy your advice. I'd like to stay in touch throughout this entire situation. lol. If thats okay with you

Of course you can, that's fine. Just bump this thread, or PM if there is anything you don't want to make 'public'.

Has this guy not had many GF's? I'm guessing he isn't the kind of guy who just goes out and asks girls out is he? The problem with men like this (I did used to be quite like that) is that he probably suffers from low self esteem (which he'll NEVER admit) although it will be subtly displayed in his character and behavior, i.e., wont ask girls out because he doesn't think he deserves to be with them etc.

The problem you have is men like this wont take initiative with women, so if anything they end up with the type of women who take initiative with them. I always encourage girls to take initiative with men because dismissing men who aren't proactive with women shuts them off to TONS of decent guys. Just because a man lacks an abundance of confidence doesn't automatically make him a loser, the problem is women feel desperate and uncomfortable doing it, if they do it all, and realize how tricky it can be for us guys! And no-one teaches us, we have to work it out for ourselves!

If his parents approval is important then perhaps make an effort to talk to them? Use them looking at you like a visiting escort an excuse to not sleep with him if you feel that way, tell him he'll have to stay at yours or take you out somewhere, you get the idea...

One less manipulative thing you could try is just texting him and saying, 'are you going to ask take me out on Friday?'

Anyway, I hope this works out!

[elizabeth21]

He's has 3 serious girlfriends that's I know of. Or at least that's how many he's slept with. Some of them were a bit.. I don't want to say trashy. But they did not have much looks or class. He tells me every time I see him that I look nice or pretty. PR that he likes my eyes. He has told me before that I make him feel good about himself.

Whenever I ask him out he always says maybe or that he doesn't know his plans. So I'm kinda losing hoe on it. But ill continue to try for the sake that it'll get us somewhere down the road later. It just makes me feel so desperate that every time I ask he has plans. Yet when he is free I am available.

Another thing is he spends a lot of time with the "guys" on weekends. Like drinking with them. I've been invited to come and have went twice. But its awkward to be the only girl out of 5 guys that I barely know getting drunk. So idk if I should give a little to get a little?

Tomorrow ill ask him if he wants to do something on Saturday. (That way I'm asking in advance) And see where it goes from there.

I think he's a very good guy. I don't know why he would hbe a low self esteem. He can fix just about anything. A car. A computer. A Xbox. He helps me out with whatever I new. He's super smart. Lol. I know what I just described makes him sound nerdy. But he's really not. He has looks and smarts. Just has a tendency of ... well. That situation is a good example. Lol.

[Hugo-B]

I think by going for a guy like this you're setting yourself up for potential success, if you can get him into the elusive relationship zone. Your posts are a breath of fresh air compared to the 'how to a get a bad boy to commit to me' type of question you often read.

How old is he? How long did the relationships last with these 3 girls? You say they were 'cough' trashy LOL? Do you know who initiated the beginning and end of the 'relationship/s'?
Despite all of his positive attributes he has had 3 GF's who lacked in the looks AND class department? Maybe he's 'punching below his weight' because he's not sure enough of himself to aim higher? Low self esteem may have been a bit harsh, lacking in self belief and confidence may be closer to the mark.

So despite going out drinking with the guys most weekends (presumably going to bars or places where there would be women) he's not picking up, or probably even interacting with girls. Which mans despite all of his positive attributes he may well be attractive to girls, but for some reason (maybe good, maybe bad, or even neutral) he isn't interacting much or even asking them out. Have you ever seen him interact with other women, especially have you ever seen him initiate conversation with another woman? Is his more comfortable and more 'himself' around men? Single men who aren't into chasing women wont go out to bars and clubs every weekend and get drunk. We know he's out every weekend and none of his interactions are leading to dating and/or sex.

I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with him, he may well not have low self esteem (though we all bury our deepest insecurities pretty deep and endeavor to disguise them as best we can) but I believe there is some kind of 'obstruction'. It isn't uncommon at all for a man to have pretty much everything in his life in place and be struggling with girls.

I know quite a lot of people, and I don't know of one guy who spent prolonged periods of time without a GF, sex, or both who didn't actually desire the companionship of a woman. Some of them had lifestyles not conductive to meeting a decent woman (drinking every night in the pub) or had confidence and communication issues with women (either scared to flirt and ask them out, so stayed single but often fell into becoming 'friends' with girls, or just went to places like bars and clubs often but failed to communicate meaningfully, if at, with the ladies).

Are his male friend's acceptable? I'm guessing they're mostly single. Have you got a single friend to help you out? I'd suggest turning up on one of his 'guy nights' alongside her and having her do some 'private investigating'. This should work out well: it could help your friend and one of his hook up, and it will likely encourage his friends to encourage him, to encourage you, along with your friend/s to join them, ergo integrating you further into his life and social group. I don't blame you for not wanting to be the only girl. It's likely your friend will have a few drinks and start interrogating him but he's a big boy and I'm sure he'll enjoy the attention and be able to take it.

If your friend can infiltrate his circle of friends, then you're likely to glean plenty of helpful information on him and his feelings, most probably more in a day than you'd get out of him in a month! When a guy introduces me to a girl I know he likes and I know she is single, when he tells me her name (Lucy, for example) in order to try and spur things on I'll say something like "Oh Lucy! Hi! Mr. X talks about you ALL the time! So great to meet you at last" it's quite amusing but my intentions are pure and it helps more than it hinders.

How does this sound?

[elizabeth21]

The friends he hangs out with one does have a girl friend of 3 yearS. They aso drink at his buddies house. Rarely do they go to a bar. Hes told me that he told his friends that I'm the girl he let get away years ago. But like I said idk if inherent just is so nice and wants things this way because he feels sorry for me or what. Idk.
I'm not sure how long his past relationships have lasted. Not over a year I don't think. I think they've just became *****y. He said he doesn't communicate with any of thn anymore. The only girl I've seen him have any conversation with is one of his childhood friends. And its just normal.
I don't know. I feel like I'm losing hope on all of this. I want nothing more than to tell him how i feel. But I know that could potentially ruin things. But this morning I asked him if he wanted yo do something tomorrow and he said he's busy. I just get too discouraged too easily. We both start class back in the fall and we both attend the same school so idk how that will go either.
Itsso hard to be positive when things look so negative.
We haven't spoken but like 10 words in 3 days. I spent the evening at his house and left and didn't text him the next day like I normally do. Plus I wanted to hear from him for once.
Another thing that's kinda odd between us is even though we're friends with benefits and would do anything with each other. We dont share much of our lives like we used to before the friends with benefits situation. I don't know. Lol. All I know is I just like the guy a whole lot.

[Hugo-B]

The good news is that it doesn't sound like he's met anyone else, or was seeing anyone else. You sound a bit down in the dumps, try and cheer up

So you think trying to get your friends to arrange some shape or form of social gathering where the two of you are there is not a possibility?

I'm loath to just advise you to square up to him and thrash this out with him face to face because these things usually result in an all or nothing outcome and get quite emotive. Plus boys tend not to cope well when girls start crying, this one doesn't sound like he will anyway.

A letter or text message conversation is an alternative, but again I would keep this for a last resort. The fact you're both going to the same school is going to result in you having MORE in common - if anything your lives will, to a degree integrate somewhat - this is potentially a good thing.

I know this is disheartening for you, and you do sound disheartened, but perhaps try exhausting other options first - no chance of arranging a social gathering?
One of the simplest things would be to just get a good friend to 'thrash it out with him' and tell him on simple terms you like him and if he doesn't raise his game he's going to lose you. You can always denigh you asked her to after as well ;-)

If you feel like you can't and don't want to resort to brutal honesty (which could be a powerful things given the history between you) then I would say the nest step would be becoming 'unavailable' for a week or so (at least a week) this will buy you some time to think, give him time to think (whilst going without sex) and if for any reason you decide not to continue then you've already began the long, hard, road to recovery (although there are other men at the end of the road). I know we can't force people to like us, and I can remember likening a girl so much I just couldn't believe what an injustice it was that she didn't reciprocate my feelings, but that's life unfortunately.

Your situation, given the history is rather different though. He's getting the pleasure and privilege or sleeping with you, so does have a duty to treat you with a degree of respect (although by you allowing him you are enabling him). You demanding a relationship is not reasonable (I know you haven't done that) but you insisting on being told exactly where you stand is not.

Some guys are just a bit clueless when it comes to girls, I cringe at some of the daft things I've done and said in the past, nothing to do with girls came naturally to me at all, nothing, I had no natural aptitude whatsoever, this guy could just be the same (although he sounds a lot smoother than me LOL, I never had girls pining over me like this).

You say he'll do anything for you, but do you always have to ask him first? Like, he'll REACTIVELY do anything for you, once you've asked? If you've always initiated contact he may just reasonably expect you to continue doing so. One of the reasons men - especially younger men - act so stupid in front of and around girls is because they don't understand women and resort to doing dumb stupid things to try and attract their attention and gain their interest. Some men don't know what to do so they just do NOTHING in order to avoid direct and immediate embarrassment. I used to be like this, I'm not now - I just go for the direct and immediate embarrassment instead.

I'm very much like you in that I'm impatient and feel like I would HAVE to do something NOW. I met a girl years ago on holiday, we stayed in touch (still are) since we lived a couple of hours apart and I liked her so much it was painful. We would meet up from time to time in London and would usually snog each other when we got drunk but that was it. I did actually have the chance to have sex with her (on holiday) but chose not to because I knew that was all she wanted (at the time) about a year later I decided to send her a text and told her I couldn't stay in touch with her because I (my choice of words) 'Wasn't doing myself any favors'. She replied and said she'd miss me but it was my choice and she didn't want to hurt me, and that she'd save my number and I was welcome to contact her any time. A few months later (I think I phoned her but I honestly can't remember for sure) we spoke on the phone and she just said 'you idiot! what was that all about?' and we both started laughing. The point I'm making here is that I had blown everything totally out of proportion, in my head this was THE biggest deal ever and my world was about to end (I'm still not sure why though). The fact of the matter was it WASN'T a big deal, AT all.

Maybe take this and next week 'off'. Give yourself a break and step back so things can be put back into perspective. I would do exactly this, during which time I would also send a trusted and reliable friend on a reconnaissance mission to set the guy straight. This is EXACTLY how I got with my first GF, I just needed a good kick up the *** to set me off in the right direction.

This only requires you to try and refrain from texting or calling him!

[elizabeth21]

The good news is that it doesn't sound like he's met anyone else, or was seeing anyone else. You sound a bit down in the dumps, try and cheer up

So you think trying to get your friends to arrange some shape or form of social gathering where the two of you are there is not a possibility?

I'm loath to just advise you to square up to him and thrash this out with him face to face because these things usually result in an all or nothing outcome and get quite emotive. Plus boys tend not to cope well when girls start crying, this one doesn't sound like he will anyway.

A letter or text message conversation is an alternative, but again I would keep this for a last resort. The fact you're both going to the same school is going to result in you having MORE in common - if anything your lives will, to a degree integrate somewhat - this is potentially a good thing.

I know this is disheartening for you, and you do sound disheartened, but perhaps try exhausting other options first - no chance of arranging a social gathering?
One of the simplest things would be to just get a good friend to 'thrash it out with him' and tell him on simple terms you like him and if he doesn't raise his game he's going to lose you. You can always denigh you asked her to after as well ;-)

If you feel like you can't and don't want to resort to brutal honesty (which could be a powerful things given the history between you) then I would say the nest step would be becoming 'unavailable' for a week or so (at least a week) this will buy you some time to think, give him time to think (whilst going without sex) and if for any reason you decide not to continue then you've already began the long, hard, road to recovery (although there are other men at the end of the road). I know we can't force people to like us, and I can remember likening a girl so much I just couldn't believe what an injustice it was that she didn't reciprocate my feelings, but that's life unfortunately.

Your situation, given the history is rather different though. He's getting the pleasure and privilege or sleeping with you, so does have a duty to treat you with a degree of respect (although by you allowing him you are enabling him). You demanding a relationship is not reasonable (I know you haven't done that) but you insisting on being told exactly where you stand is not.

Some guys are just a bit clueless when it comes to girls, I cringe at some of the daft things I've done and said in the past, nothing to do with girls came naturally to me at all, nothing, I had no natural aptitude whatsoever, this guy could just be the same (although he sounds a lot smoother than me LOL, I never had girls pining over me like this).

You say he'll do anything for you, but do you always have to ask him first? Like, he'll REACTIVELY do anything for you, once you've asked? If you've always initiated contact he may just reasonably expect you to continue doing so. One of the reasons men - especially younger men - act so stupid in front of and around girls is because they don't understand women and resort to doing dumb stupid things to try and attract their attention and gain their interest. Some men don't know what to do so they just do NOTHING in order to avoid direct and immediate embarrassment. I used to be like this, I'm not now - I just go for the direct and immediate embarrassment instead.

I'm very much like you in that I'm impatient and feel like I would HAVE to do something NOW. I met a girl years ago on holiday, we stayed in touch (still are) since we lived a couple of hours apart and I liked her so much it was painful. We would meet up from time to time in London and would usually snog each other when we got drunk but that was it. I did actually have the chance to have sex with her (on holiday) but chose not to because I knew that was all she wanted (at the time) about a year later I decided to send her a text and told her I couldn't stay in touch with her because I (my choice of words) 'Wasn't doing myself any favors'. She replied and said she'd miss me but it was my choice and she didn't want to hurt me, and that she'd save my number and I was welcome to contact her any time. A few months later (I think I phoned her but I honestly can't remember for sure) we spoke on the phone and she just said 'you idiot! what was that all about?' and we both started laughing. The point I'm making here is that I had blown everything totally out of proportion, in my head this was THE biggest deal ever and my world was about to end (I'm still not sure why though). The fact of the matter was it WASN'T a big deal, AT all.

Maybe take this and next week 'off'. Give yourself a break and step back so things can be put back into perspective. I would do exactly this, during which time I would also send a trusted and reliable friend on a reconnaissance mission to set the guy straight. This is EXACTLY how I got with my first GF, I just needed a good kick up the ****** to set me off in the right direction.

This only requires you to try and refrain from texting or calling him!

As much as I want to just come out and striaght up tell him my feelings and stuff I won't. It will ruin things. I agree. There was a incident back a few months ago way before all the sex became envolved. I told him I couldn't continue just being friends because I liked him too much and it hurt me too much. And He hated it but at the same time he respected me. He didn't talk to me unless I talked to him and what not. Then I came to senses. lol. Recently I have wanted to sit down and write him a letter, but there is just so much to say I have no idea where to start or what to write. lol.

He'll do anything for me whether I ask or not. When I found out my car was tore up he took all inititive to just help me. I pretty much didn't have a choice. I once had a flat tire, and I called him really early in the morning and he came to help too. If he knows I need something he'll tell me he wants to help. for example the AC in my car only works when it wants to and he keeps asking when he can fix it. He's a great guy. It's just we really don't know one another as much as we think or as much as we would like to.

I feel like some days I just look too much into our sitiuation. But it's so hard not to because of the mutual feelings when we're around each other. The things he says or the way he treats me, it's so sweet/nice. ( I know that sounded cheesy.) But it's just so unbeleivable the feelings that are between us. I guess you can say I feel them when we're around each other? lol. I just don't know what person would go to the extent of treating a person like he treats me, only to sleep with them. If that made any sense.

I suppose I could have my friend talk to him. Like either get my phone and text/call or just meet him in person. (She has even mentioned the idea to me before.) I just feel as if thats childish? But I guess if more than one person is suggesting it, it can't be too bad of an idea.

I will take your advice and leave him alone for a week. No calling. No texting. No nothing. It's going to be tough seeming how I freaking think of him every waking second. Lol. But I can do this. Hopefully in that week he'll think 'Hmm, maybe I should see what she's up to"

Why must things be so complicated! AHH!

[Hugo-B]

One thing I've avoided doing is 'making your mind up for you', and you're giving me new information each post, which isn't a problem but it changes things with each new 'installment' LOL.

I'll take it a step further this time though:

Take 1-2 weeks off as agreed, yah?

I would now suggest your best friend calls him (I don't care who's phone from but if she uses hers you can denigh you instructed her to do so on your behalf after if it helps) and just simply 'thrashes' this out with him. At the very least you'll end up knowing where you stand. Sometimes it's better to send a representative to negotiate on your behalf, and it often produces a better outcome.

Before you send her off though think VERY carefully about what you want, what you can't accept and the implications of the various outcomes which may occur.
Consider the worst possibility first (which is probably carrying on like this LOL) and build on that. This is difficult but I've honestly seen situations like this drag on for YEARS. Time to grab the bull by the horns.

If he says he 'can't'...
Will you still want to try and be 'friends'?
Will you avoid him or agree not to cross paths (at parties/school etc)when either of you start dating other people?
Will you make a deal to avoid contact?

Your friend need to be armed with some thought provoking questions for him to, to get the grey matter working in order to maximize the chance of success. Lawyers and salespeople use open questions to persuade people, "how can I help?", as opposed to "can I help?". Open questions which don't have a 'yes' or 'no' answer make people think and say things they otherwise wouldn't say. A decorator trying to sell his services has more chance of making a sale by asking, "how would you like your house to look once it's been re-decorated?" than by asking "do you want your house painted?". See what I mean?

So, she needs to ask him stuff like: "have you thought how Elizabeth might have been feeling?" (don't worry about him getting angry, men get scared when chicks go on the turn like this), "where do you see things going with Elizabeth when you're at school in fall?", and "how much longer do you think Elizabeth is going to wait before she meets someone, how would that make you feel if you lost your chance?".

THEN...

She needs to use closed questions to pin the son-of-a-B down...

Friend: (open question) "how will you feel when Elizabeth meets someone, you said you couldn't see her with anyone else?"

Man: "Huh?" (likely embarrassed mumbling and talking to the floor)

Friend: (pinning him down) "you did say that didn't you?'

Man: "erm, yes?"

Friend: (now he's pinned to that statement) "so if you can't see her with anyone else then you're going to have to take her off the market, aren't you? it's been YEARS you loser! Strap on a pair!"

Man: "I'll start saving for a ring!"

I obviously can't predict how this will go, but there's no point doing half measures here, your friend needs to maximize chances.By working those open and closed questions in he'll more likely open up and say more than he means, too, which is good.

How does this make you feel? LOL

x

[elizabeth21]

I talked to her today and tomorrow she's going to contact him through text on her phone. Do you think she should call instead? I'm not going to let this drag on for years. I just want to know where this is going, or if its even going anywhere.
I'm not sure if I could remain friends with him. I'm not sure if I could even remain friends with benefits after knowning he wants nothing out of it. Yet I don't want to not communicate at all. Either way would hurt. So I guess not talking would just be nest. Because I just would not be able to stand sleeping with him and having these feelings for him knowing he doesn't want anything more. I couldn't stand seeing him with anyone either. I'm not sure what to do. Lol. I just know I can't drag this friends with benefits thing out another few months without knowing something.

I must say tho. I love your advice. You help me sort things out. I'm glad you take the tine to respond. :-)

[Hugo-B]

Text no. Phone call at least or, ideally, face to face.

Good luck!
x

[Hugo-B]

Text message will give him much to much space to duck and hide.

A text conversation is not a serious discussion or anything close to a confrontation (a nice one). This guy is reluctant to reveal his feelings, text messages are not going to put nay pressure on him whatsoever. WTF would she do if he just chose not to respond? She should meet him somewhere public or turn up at his place of residence. Just forget text, please.

You sound quite young but one tactic you'll learn to employ in due course is that when a woman wants a serious discussion with a man she always chooses to start it when she finds him at his weakest, when he's in a situation from which he can't run away, like in the bath, last thing at night when he's exhausted, morning when he's hungover etc. Text is the furthest from this you can get.

If you can I would send her round to his house, hopefully she's pushy enough to insist she gets answers from him, good or bad. The objective of this is - don't forget - to obtain conclusive answers from him, if we/you/us/she doesn't get them then her him meeting him/phoning him/not texting hasn't been a success and we still don't know where we stand.

Good luck x