[JonnyR]

atskitty2 Thanks for the reply!

I'll try to be brief, lord knows we've taken over this thread (for better or for worse! LOL). [Update: Failed to be brief! LOL]

I adhere to a very simple saying: How you do anything, is how you do everything.

What this means is simply this: How you tend to do any one single thing, is usually how you approach or do anything in life.

Yes, there are exceptions. Sometimes I'm lazy, and I don't wash my dishes in the moment...but 95% of the time, I wash them AS SOON as I'm done eating...always. I'm OCD and like to do things the "right" way and not procrastinate in ANYTHING that I do in life...my workouts, my communication, my honesty, heck even replying to this message I waited until I had time to do it "right" and thoroughly and not half-assed...otherwise, why bother?

For the most part, we are who we are.

In the case of communication -- it does not matter the forum or medium, nor should it -- if you are a GREAT or EXCELLENT communicator, then you are always excellent, or try to be, no matter the forum or medium.

If I prefer meeting over coffee to endless texting, that doesn't mean I am crappy at texting, nor should it be an excuse to get away with being crappy at texting.

Does this make sense?

I have yet to meet someone in person who was a ****ty communicator over phone or text, that magically turned into some amazing communicator in person...

I have found the opposite to be true of course: someone who was fantastic via text or phone was not as good in person, but it usually lines up: good texter? Good talker over the phone? Then usually good in person too! Who you are is who you are.

After all, texting is just talking -- you just type your thoughts onto the screen!!

As I am doing right now...I might not be a "great" writer -- but I am a great communicator.

I type as I think, as I talk, as I communicate with others. It comes across, you can feel it, you can sense it, you know it's real and true.

When you speak with me, my voice is the exact same. When you meet me, I am the exact same. A force with my words and my communication. The medium does not matter to me.

I am old school, I don't like endless texting either...hell, I used to hate texting! Then I realized, it's just another form of communication! And if I want to meet someone, I'll communicate any way I know how to get to meet them.

Not following up with my initial text until 3 days (READ: DAYS!) later, confirmed my initial thoughts: she sucks at communicating, OR communicating with ME using this medium was not important enough to make the effort -- regardless of what it might lead to! Something wonderful perhaps? Guess not...

And yes, you are right -- it IS a proxy for how I want to communicate with someone! If it's a bother to return my text NOW when we're in the meeting and "honeymoon" stage, WTF will it be like later when she becomes comfortable with me (comfortable enough to be her TRUE self!)?

No thanks...that's a done deal for me.

Thats a FLAG! And I don't think that's being too harsh at all...it shows SO much about someone.

The message you relayed about meeting your current beau was actually very EFFECTIVE and brilliant communication! You didn't play games, stated what you wanted, and that is awesome! I applaud that, and loved it!

The problem is most women do NOT do that -- they simply don't reply to your questions, ask any of their own, and even worse? Don't offer any solution such as stating "let's just meet in person!" They just ghost out or keep repeating the same thing expecting a different result without clearly stating their intentions -- at least if they do that we can decide if it's right or not.

I challenge you as well to look into your own communication style -- are you saying that you would NEVER text a lover/significant other all the time if THAT's what they wanted? What if that was their love language? A Combination of words of affirmation and acts of service in the form of a loving text message every single day (oh the horror of it!!)...?

I dated a woman for while that would not return my text messages promptly if at all if she got busy at work and didn't feel it was necessary and felt like it was an obligation and pressure to do so...

I told her very honestly that it simply meant that we weren't right for each other -- think about it: If you DON'T WANT to actually communicate with your partner in the only manner available to you in that moment (at work, you don't have time usually to stop stuff, talk on the phone, etc, but you sure as f*ck have time to text someone while you're in the bathroom, on your lunch break, or otherwise!), if it feels like BURDEN to do so (she actually said this to me), then it means its a burden to communicate with someone you're trying to build something with -- that's not good enough for me and if it's a burden (I've in turn felt this way as well about other women! so I know the feeling...it's done, it's over, I'm just not that interested...), then we're pretty much done.

So, we may disagree on what constitutes a "flag" but personal preference aside, being "fiercely independent" doesn't absolve one of effective communication.

To me, that encompasses ALL forms -- not just the one you like, but the one that allows closeness and a bond to form, and even perhaps the one you despise the most, but the one your partner asks for, and because you care about them so much, it's absolutely nothing to do it.

Again, you're right -- if someone is NEVER going to text, email, call, and only wait to see each other in person, that's simply not good enough for me, and I know for others as well.

I want way more closeness and intimacy -- no, not demanding texting of "where are you" or sh*t like that, but more so "hey, I'm thinking about you, and hope you're having an awesome day!" those kinds of things, especially if you don't live together and are growing something special.

Special to me encompasses effective communication -- not just when it's convenient, but especially when it ISN'T! When sh*t is flying, you're busy, and you just saw them or interacted with them.

Why WOULDN'T you want to communicate with someone you feel that strongly about!?

That's the stuff of legend, and that's the type of relationship that I want, have had in the past, and won't settle for less than now.

[atskitty2]

I think what you have in mind for being a good communicator, means high volumes of communicating.
That's not what I'm looking for. I'd rather have 1 or 2 messages, that say all I need to know, than several of the casual back and forth.

I think you're missing out on some great women with this idea that frequency equals quality, or ability.

Right now, I am working sometimes 40 hr weeks. I'm also full time in nursing school, with 14 cr hours of classes and a full 10-12 hour day in clinical training, lab time and other expectations related to the added training I've signed up for. I cannot have my phone during working hours, nor in my clinical training. So, that's about 60 hrs a week that my phone is not even in my pocket or in reach. In my down time (haha), I'm studying and also keep the phone away to avoid distractions. I don't do a lot of idle chit chat on the phone with him, or anyone. Coming here to WHI, is a relaxation time for me. It's part of the "me time" that I try to set aside.

I'm glad I don't have a man that is expecting, or *needing* to hear from me for sometimes 16 hrs in a day. If I don't get to actually take a lunch break and go to my locker, that may be the case. Additionally, inside the college, and in the hospital, I don't even have a signal on most floors, the WiFi sucks, so, again, I am not calling or texting anyone. It's a relief to know that he's not out there missing me, wondering if I care, or contemplating our stability. (er...Maybe he is??) lol

When I get out, there's often a msg saying, hope your day was ok, pls let me know if you're home safely and in for the night. That's it. That's enough. I always make a point to let him know that. Sometimes he's shut down for the night, though, and we don't connect that day.

Quantity doesn't necessarily mean that a person is a good communicator. They can text all day every day, but it really means nothing to me if it's mindless chatter. Still doesn't mean that they can make meaningful statements about their needs, expectations, wants, desires and where they really are in their life and in their standing with me.
He sends me 1 message, and lets me know he's concerned that I'm in safely. That speaks volumes. And I know he'll likely wake up at 3am and see that I responded, and go back to sleep. Because he's told me that's what usually happens. And I know he won't message me back then, because he worries he'll wake me when I'm probably sleeping only a few hours, or still up studying. We've had conversations, in person, about the way we are in this crazy schedule that I live. lol And I know his work days are hectic too. I don't expect him to stop and text me.

At this point in my life, if I didn't already have someone, I would not be attempting to build a relationship. This person I am now, is not me. I am too busy, and too worn out to relax half the time I have an opportunity to. He gets it, and he actually tries to remind me that I *need* to step away from responsibilities and have some chill time. So, I think being a great communicator comes in a lot of forms, and in my experience, it's seldom contained in the voluminous messages that most people look for these days.

[JonnyR]

Hi there atskitty2 This has indeed been a very spirited and robust discussion, much appreciated!

I think that at this point, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

As you said, if you already didn't have someone in your life (someone VERY understanding!) you would likely NOT be dating because you simply do not have the time, and/or it's not a high enough priority with your other competing interests.

And you know what? That's totally ok!

I wish more women knew and understood this and didn't think that half-hearted communication, and making a relationship be the LOWEST thing on their daily priority list was a good idea if they really want to foster and grow something meaningful.

I don't know about you, but I haven't come all this way in my life (and been in your shoes, where everything else was more important than a relationship, despite the fact that I was lonely and "wanted" one), to settle for someone in that boat.

I am ready, I am open, and for me, love and connection are one of my highest priorities in life.

I am ready, and have created the necessary space, to drop everything and make tons of time for my honey and partner -- I want to do that, as before in my life, I did not, or actually was too scared to foster that type of deep connection and actually want to be with someone that closely so as to miss them or have a risk of loss.

We're all on our own paths in life, and our choices and where we are at are neither right nor wrong, they're just our truth.

The key is to be open about it (as we both seem to be) so that anyone we do encounter understands where we are at, so if we aren't on the same page, we can move on with peace in our hearts and no hard feelings.

I have a saying:

You're either moving forward, or you're moving on.

[atskitty2]

JonnyR I wasn't thinking to "change" you, or thinking it's an agree/disagree type of thing here. We're just sharing our ways, our "truths" as you said, and possibly learning something along the way. I wouldn't have even called it "spirited" I genuinely try to understand what it is that drives some men and women to want and need that constant barrage of messages or phone calls, and why they're hurt, angered and leave a person behind because they can't be in constant contact. "Constant" is the key there.
I certainly went through some phases in my dating life that if I didn't hear from someone, I got worried, and felt insecure. I'm just wondering where that line is, between being needy, out of insecurity, and having a "need" to be met. Is there a difference?

So, if you felt my discussion was robust, or spirited...I'm just hoping you can help me understand because you seemed willing to chat about it. You say that love and connection is a high priority. I think that's true for most of us. Does it genuinely come through constant messaging for you? Does it depend on the content of those messages? Help me understand here...

I wonder sometimes if it's my generation that is just different. Cell phones, the web and the ability to be in constant contact was never a thing for me, most of my life. The younger generations seem to be so keyed into all the ways they can know what someone's doing, where they are, and momentary contact if desired. However, my friend, who's my age, has this same expectation - she needs instant gratification. Is it a bit of anxiety for some of us? I think that was especially true for me, at some point. Getting a handle on anxiety certainly helped me...

Oh, and for the record, our relationship isn't low priority for me. Our ability to make contact frequently, isn't indicative of where we stand.

[JonnyR]

atskitty2 I agree -- spirited was a positive thing! Meaning thought-provoking and analytical -- not antagonistic.

I do want to challenge the term "constant" -- I see it as meaningful, and regular, not "constant".

I am 45 years old, and do not like texting endlessly, and always prefer face to face meeting and/or phone over texting.

HOWEVER, as I tried to explain, texting is sometimes ALL we have to go on.

It is another form of "communication" and here's what my "research" has taught me (as I said before): If someone is bad at one form of communication, they're likely not good at any other -- meaning phone, face to face, etc.

That's just the reality of it.

I cannot think of ONE time when someone was a ****ty texter, and all of a sudden we met and it was like "holy Christ!" this person is so talkative, deep, and wonderful in their communication! Wow, I'm glad I didn't judge them just based off email, text, et al"

Now, it HAS gone the other way --> Someone is really good at texting, and even on the phone, but when we meet it's not the same and they aren't those people.

But it has NEVER gotten BETTER, only worse.

That has led me to where I am today: quickly discern -- is this person a good COMMUNICATOR (in any form!), because as I said "How you do anything, is how you do everything."

It's a heuristic and a time saver -- for both of us, regardless of WHY!

Whether they don't like it, aren't good at it, don't have time for it, etc -- aside from some VERY VERY rare cases of an emergency situation or something dire where they weren't communicating with anyone for a very good reason -- usually, it leads to one outcome: we're just not a good fit for each other.

And as you said in another thread, communication and diction and vocabulary are very sexy and intimate and important to some of us...

Texting? It's an extension of writing/talking/communication skills.

Does this make sense?

It is NOT about "constant" communication -- it's about MEANINGFUL and REGULAR communication whereby the person on the other end makes you FEEL wanted, appreciated, and valued and that you are a high priority for them -- not the last thing on their daily list of to do's.

With your relationship you are established, it sounds so perhaps the 1 time per day is totally cool because there is built in trust already -- when you are getting to know someone (and to be clear, I think this is more where I am coming from vs. expecting this for the rest of our lives...although, if both people want and need and like that, it's ok too!), I feel it's like the saying goes: lack of response IS a response.

I hope I've clarified this a bit further for you to understand.

And finally, yes, perhaps it DOES have to do with me personally -- maybe I'm a bit more anxious, sensing, feeling, thoughtful, over-analytical, and in the single most vulnerable place where I'm most exposed, its not where I want to feel those feelings in a negative way.

Which is why I go by intuition a lot as well -- how does it FEEL?

Regardless, we don't have to give everyone on earth the benefit of the doubt that hasn't earned it -- or we can give it, but also move on when it doesn't feel right to us -- how often do we violate our instincts to our own determent later and in retrospect say to ourselves "oh yeah, I already knew this was happening, but I overlooked it because I didn't want to judge and wanted to give the benefit of the doubt."

I am prone to sayings, so here's one more from Maya Angelou:

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the FIRST time.

[atskitty2]

Ah, I see. So this "need/preference" (for lack of more accurate terminology) for more frequent contact is *only* during those early days? A temporary, getting-to-know-you sort of thing? I understand that, and I enjoyed that too at one time.

A few years ago tho, in my "dating career" I opted to move toward behaving in those early days, just as I intended to "be" all the time. So, I didn't set an expectation for that frequent text from the beginning. I stopped checking my phone, and responding to messages throughout the day, and behaved the way I normally would. I had the dating apps only on my tablet, which was at home. That was a turning point for me in many respects. It was definitely a game changer in my dating life.

It was me being more true to who I am. There were several men that walked away because (I think) they perceived lack of interest because I wasn't texting several times a day. And that's ok. I am never going to be that person again that texts frequently through the day, unless there's some special circumstance. I prefer not to get to know someone in that manner.

Dating is messy. I'm glad I'm out of the game, at least for awhile.

[Emily D.]

atskitty2 a lot of people do freak out when you don't respond quickly on dating apps, which I haaaate. Like, I can't be glued to my phone all the time!

I can definitely see the benefits of establishing boundaries at the beginning, or just acting the way you'd act normally from the get. That way, your would-be partner knows what to expect.

Dating IS messy, and I definitely envy those who don't have to worry about it for a bit!

[JonnyR]

Agree with everyone! You have to be true to yourself!

It was exactly what I was saying with "How you do anything is how you do everything"...you prefer not texting all the time, nay, not TALKING all the time even -- so it's an important distinction to get out of the way EARLY in a relationship.

Depending on attachment style, that is NOT gonna fly for some people, and that's ok! It's best to know that early on so each can settle and date and get to know the person that is a good fit for them.

Dating can be messy, Amen to everyone toeing the line!

[atskitty2]

Emily D. My bestie lives this way. Many a dinner, lunch or night out with her over the years has been spent with her literally looking at her phone every 2-3 minutes. Hello? I often ended an evening early because it was no fun for me to watch her, and that was ALL we could discuss, because it was all she thought of.

I can remember a time years ago that I would take a moment to go check my phone in my locker at work...why? I was not supposed to leave the area, yet I'd steal away to see if there was a message I needed to respond to, so as not to lose a potential mate. I think it was a needy, disoriented phase I went through in my healing process. I can remember so many conversations that seemed to be developing well. Then, out of the blue, I'd get a completely unexpected message cutting me off for lack of interest. It was maddening at that time. I was actually quite interested, but I cannot be in constant contact, and it's no reflection of my interest in or the effort which I'm putting forth.

Perception is everything. They had jobs that allowed them to text all day. I don't and they honestly couldn't comprehend having a career that requires 100% focus and full attention on shift. Some days I'd get a lunch, some days I wouldn't.
I get that. What I couldn't get is their inability, unwillingness or whatever it was, to try to understand the situation as it was. They *must* have the constant interaction and sense that something's amiss if that's not delivered. Exhausting...

JonnyR I understand where you're coming from. And I still think you may be missing out on some wonderful women and opportunities based on those initial impressions you get. I don't disagree with your comments about how you do one thing is how you do everything. I just think that you can't really know how someone does something, genuinely, in those first weeks of getting to know someone. I don't think those are true indications of ability, willingness or dedication.

[amy40]

in college, I briefly dated someone who had a disability