[TLD]

This is a very difficult situation. I have 2 kids, a son 33 and a daughter 28. They both have 2 girls. They both have always had problems getting along with my second wife of 17 years. My wife and I have fought about my kids for ever. The bad thing is, that is the only time we don't get along. But she says I always take their side over hers. Which most of the time she is right. She says since she is my wife I should always take her side against my kids. So now I told her I would take her side. My son basically told me it was him or her. I could see him but without her. That was 2 years ago and I haven't seen or talked to him or my 2 grand daughters. This has just torn my heart out.

Now my daughter has been in and out of my life because of the 2 them fighting. She had Paige her first daughter 3 years ago today. We kept her ever since she was 2 months old. Then on 12-12-12 she had her second one. We started keeping both girls until just a little over a 2 months ago. My wife and daughter just kept things in an up roar most of the time, so they just found a daycare and took the girls there. Told us on a Friday they would not be back.
I talked to Paige 2 times on the phone. Then my wife called and tried to talk to her and was told that until she and my daughter sorted things out, she was not allowed to talk to her. I talked to my daughter and she told me she was done and did not want anything else to do with my wife. She wanted to have a relationship with me but not her. She also said I could see Paige and Kaelyn but without her.

My wife said it was not fair for me to see Paige and not her since we were both so close to her. I have seen this little girl 5 days a week almost her whole life. We were super close. She wanted to stay with her PaPa even when they came to pick her up. This is totally killing me.

I know that it is also hurting my wife for she is the only Nana that Paige has known. So she says if she can't see her then I can't either unless I want a divorce.

This is not fair for my daughter and my wife to make me choose between them. My grand daughters is the ones that pays the price just like I do.

Should I just totally act as if my kids died and never see them again?

That is what I have done with my son. And my first grand daughter, I was almost as close to her as Paige but they live 3 hours away so I didn't see them as much. I am not sure if I can do it a second time.

Today is the worst day of my life because of not being able to see Paige on her birthday.

Please tell me what you think.

[jns]

What were the situations of the divorce from your first wife and the marriage to your second wife? Is your second wife a lot younger, therefore more of your children's ages? Many times the bases of future conflicts are sown in such situations. If your second wife has endured years of disrespect, she probably does not have a lot of forgiveness left.

As a father, you have to take the side of your children, except when they are flat out wrong. As a husband for the second time, you committed to taking the side of your second wife. Now your children are using your grandchildren as leverage in their fights against your second wife and trying to control your relationship with her. Further, your daughter must not have had the most stable financial situation if she had you take care of her daughter for 3 years.

There isn't a way you can leverage your way out of this because the decisions are not yours to make, except your commitment to your second wife.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I would go for a plea to both as a Dad bringing up your children, at that time. Sitting with them both and sharing your heart and soul. The love you had for both of them and that of their Mother. That at your age and theirs you have to keep living and have done so with someone you care about and are sharing your life with, it's not their choice it's yours as they have their own choices in life and have made.

I'd actually though find out why they dislike your wife so much. Does she interfere, does she make them feel useless, does she make them feel un-wanted. I don't think it's a matter of she is not their Mum, due to their ages.

I do feel that your daughter obviously has had issues with not being able to bring her children up and I feel that it seems as if she can't find love long lasting and that she has issues from when you and her Mum broke up.. She allowed you to take her children but this is sad to then take them back and never let you see them unless your now wife is not around.

Something is there that you are not seeing pertaining to the way they feel about your wife. What is it?

Paige is my "step daughters" name, beautiful .....name.

You have to dig deeper, think, discuss not about never seeing your grandchildren but your children.

Here it is your children that love you, need you... want you... but won't let you totally in, because of your wife.

I just don't think this is clear cut you know? They are 33 and 28, not 11 and 19..

[Claret]

What is the cause of the conflict? After 17 years I would think it's no longer about your second wife and you being together. There is an on-going, with your two children and your wife, conflict and it seems to have only one thing in common - which is your wife. What type of personality does she have? How does she act with your children?
Unfortunately step-parents have to take the step back from the kids, from the decision making, from handing out advise. Your children have two parents (I'm assuming your ex is still alive) and your grandchildren really may or may not see your wife as a grandmother.
Your wife needs to take a step back so you can have the relationship you need to have with your children and grand-children. She needs to be supportive of this relationship. Does she have children of her own? Does she have natural grandchildren? Are you involved in their lives and relationships?
I think you all need to take another look at this situation and figure out the base cause before you can go any further trying to integrate the two families. Something happened and recently for your daughter to suddenly stop bringing the children over for day care. Something BIG happened and we aren't getting any of that story here.

[KMonte85]

I agree with Claret. If you want to resolve this, you need to take a step back and really assess the cause of the conflict.

WHY, after 17 years, have your children and wife still not settled their differences, or at least agreed to disagree and be civil to one another? What is the cause of the fights? Is there some unresolved issue that keeps being brought up? Or are there still hard feelings from some past wrong-doing on one or both sides?

[Annieh]

Without more information it would be hard to give you stellar advice. Like previous posters, I'm wondering why the situation is the way it is. In the meantime let me tell you something from my own life that may or may not help.

My mother and I have not ever had a great relationship. Because I'm the kid, i was always the one being "difficult" and at fault though I truly know that was not the case (sometimes it was!). I won't get into details as to why our relationship was a mess. But it eventually became apparent that she has borderline personality disorder, which explains why she can be an extremely difficult and selectively emotionally abusive person. I moved out in my teens and vowed to never talk to her again. Of course my dad suffered from this because to see or talk to him would mean I would have to see and talk to her and i didnt want to deal with that. There was nothing he could do about it, nothing he could say to her that would fix it (look up BPD if you want to fully understand why). This went on for a couple years. Finally I had to make a choice to actively work on the relationship or remove myself permanently and I chose family despite the frustrations it caused. Oddly enough, because of the disorder she had very little comprehension of her part in our strained relationship. Her reality is slightly skewed and my absence really hurt and confused her. It took some time but I have actively tried to deal with her issues in a positive way and our relationship is much better for it, perhaps even good!! My relationship with my dad is also better by default. He loves my mom and all of his kids. He shouldn't have to choose between us unless there is a major, justifiable issue (which there really isn't in our case). Her issues did not warrant him leaving her. She just needed some counseling and more understanding on our end, I know that now.

My point is, you shouldn't have to choose. Something is going on that has caused such a rift but nothing is completely hopeless. You might have to have a heart to heart with everyone and see what the real issue is and get it out in the open. If someone is being unreasonable and is unwilling to be a part of the solution rather than the problem then they will have to figure it out themselves, you cant force them. You may get hurt in the process though, but sadly that is life sometimes. The choice is ultimately theirs, not yours, to work on solving the problem. If you must divide your time to not lose your children and grandchildren, work something out in a way where everyone (you, your kids, your wife) each has to make a compromise. Nobody is exempt from compromise! It will inevitably become a bigger problem if someone feels like they are trying harder or making more sacrifices than someone else. Resentment breeds contempt.

I am so sorry you've been caught in this mess. It is hard work to repair damaged relations, but I can personally attest to the longterm benefits of actively trying to make something, anything work. And in my situation, it had to be me doing all the work. My mom won't because in her mind she is doing nothing wrong. I just have to deal with that. But I do it for my dad, for my siblings (we help eachother cope), for me and for my son. Family is forever and it is worth fighting for. Good luck!

This is a very difficult situation. I have 2 kids, a son 33 and a daughter 28. They both have 2 girls. They both have always had problems getting along with my second wife of 17 years. My wife and I have fought about my kids for ever. The bad thing is, that is the only time we don't get along. But she says I always take their side over hers. Which most of the time she is right. She says since she is my wife I should always take her side against my kids. So now I told her I would take her side. My son basically told me it was him or her. I could see him but without her. That was 2 years ago and I haven't seen or talked to him or my 2 grand daughters. This has just torn my heart out.

Now my daughter has been in and out of my life because of the 2 them fighting. She had Paige her first daughter 3 years ago today. We kept her ever since she was 2 months old. Then on 12-12-12 she had her second one. We started keeping both girls until just a little over a 2 months ago. My wife and daughter just kept things in an up roar most of the time, so they just found a daycare and took the girls there. Told us on a Friday they would not be back.
I talked to Paige 2 times on the phone. Then my wife called and tried to talk to her and was told that until she and my daughter sorted things out, she was not allowed to talk to her. I talked to my daughter and she told me she was done and did not want anything else to do with my wife. She wanted to have a relationship with me but not her. She also said I could see Paige and Kaelyn but without her.

My wife said it was not fair for me to see Paige and not her since we were both so close to her. I have seen this little girl 5 days a week almost her whole life. We were super close. She wanted to stay with her PaPa even when they came to pick her up. This is totally killing me.

I know that it is also hurting my wife for she is the only Nana that Paige has known. So she says if she can't see her then I can't either unless I want a divorce.

This is not fair for my daughter and my wife to make me choose between them. My grand daughters is the ones that pays the price just like I do.

Should I just totally act as if my kids died and never see them again?

That is what I have done with my son. And my first grand daughter, I was almost as close to her as Paige but they live 3 hours away so I didn't see them as much. I am not sure if I can do it a second time.

Today is the worst day of my life because of not being able to see Paige on her birthday.

Please tell me what you think.

[Beccalouise]

I personally think it should be your children before your wife. I have similar situations in my life.

My Dad has always sided with his fiancee over me, his first child. I have never gotten along with her because of how she is towards me, the things she has done to me in the past, and her intentions of cutting me out of that side of the family completely. Therefore if I ever have children, I would not let her anywhere near them. Even though I dislike my Dad because he hasn't exactly been the best Dad (cheating on my mum and leaving us when I was only 5, not supporting us, siding with his fiancee and more) to me, I would still consider letting him see my children. As of now, I still kind of want a relationship with my Dad because after all, he is my Dad, and I still want to see my younger half-brothers, but I feel I cannot have a relationship with my Dad or my brothers without having to see her or be around her. But if it was the case of a step-parent to my children, I would always side with my children unless they were flat out wrong.

Another situation, my fiance has been between houses the past few years because he hasn't gotten along with both his step-dad at his mum's and his step-mum at his dad's. Both times he was wrong to argue with them (he was very young at the time so he was sort of a typical moody teenager) as what they wanted from him was to help out around the house and clean up after himself, which at that time he didn't do at either home. Therefore his parent sided with their spouse and he had to move to the other home.

Depending on the reason your children don't get along with your wife, if it is something fairly serious and reasonable (as is with my dad's fiancee, she has done horrible things to me in the past so I have every right), or if it's that they simply don't agree with one another and cannot be civil for your sake and your grandchildren's sake.

If it is the second case, that they simply don't agree with one another, I think they should make all the effort they can for you and your grandchildren, to be civil with your wife so that you can carry on having a relationship with your children and grandchildren.

If it is the first case and she has done unspeakable things to your children (not on about physical abuse, as I assume you would of left her if she did abuse them), then they have every right to not want to know your wife and not let their children near your wife, and personally I think you should side with your children if that's the case.

What I don't understand is, why has your daughter only recently stopped letting her children visit you and your wife, as you say you were both so close to Paige?

[kira]

My mom has the same problem in reverse only she doesn't have grandkids yet. I refused to go to the wedding of her and my stepfather and we have hated each other ever since. We survived by not talking to each other directly the last 2 years I lived in the house. My sister is slightly better with him but she hates him too and we spent much time trying to break them up. They fought horribly over us and still occasionally do. My mom always sided with us and I believe she should. We are her children and it is her choice how to raise and interact with us. It is not his decision unless he can be reasonable and respect all 3 of our feelings. She even kicked him out of the house a couple times to stand up for us. Even a professional (the highschool wanted me to see a psychiatrist) told my mom should she stand up for us and tell him to behave or get lost.

[Stillness]

Trying to break someone's marriage up is one of the most horrible things you can do - whether you're a child, a parent, or any other relation. You aren't going to fill the hole that you create if you succeed and it's not your place to. You're interfering with a solemn vow they took when it's simply not any of your business. And divorce is rough. Anybody asking that of someone or driving a wedge between a couple to wreck a marriage is a disgrace to the community.

And if you can't have some measure of peace between your steps and in-laws maybe you need to look in the mirror. My brother-in-law has non-stop problems with he and my wife's stepmother. There are always some sort of issues between them. My father-in-law is stuck in the middle. According to my brother-in-law she's manipulative, snotty, and all sorts of other bad things. Yet, my wife and I have no major problems with her. Why is that? We spend time together and even went on vacation with them and had a good time. Yes she has issues, but so does everyone.

And why does it have to be sides? I think husband and wife comes before children or anyone else, but why does it have to be either or. I really think that a lot of times it's the children trying to demand something that they don't have the right to. My father remarried and has done way more for my siblings than he's ever done for me. That's the way it tends to go with a second marriage. I know that some of the stuff I advise him to do his wife discourages him from it, even though I'm not trying to get anything out of him. I suspect because it's me and I'm not her natural child. Her children drain them, while I've done nothing but enrich them. I don't care. I love both of them anyway. It's not my place to come into his home and get between them. Some people just don't get this. They need to mature, in my opinion.

If someone was trying to make me choose, I'd tell them no. I love my wife and my family. I want them to get along. I'd try to arrange to get them together and tell them to stop being so stubborn and sensitive. But I won't choose. If they want to be petty, jealous, and choose to leave me or cut off contact then that's on them. That's wrong, but their choice. No one is going to leverage their relationship on me and make me do the wrong thing, though. I refuse to live my life operating under someone else's bitterness and being manipulated.

I don't know if you're still watching, TLD, but I'd tell my family that I want them to get along and if they don't, I'd just probably man up and put my foot down.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Hi TLD

I hope you are receiving the extra posts... We haven't heard back from you since you posted this in July, how are things going ?