[Guest]

another opinion

Get her to read this thread.

yes, please. but start with my post.

kidding.

it's a complex issue & we'll all want to give you neatly wrapped up opinions as though they encompassed the whole thing. rest assured they don't. for every woman that is offended by porn there's one who doesn't care.

your questions are great. my advice is to answer them by deciding what is right - for you. not trying to appease or pacify your wife. in other words, you decide if porn is a good or bad choice, regardless of what your wife or all of us here think. then act accordingly.

that said, i can't avoid chiming in, especially when i disagree so sharply with much of what you've been told here.

the reason it's cheating to her is that when you engage with porn, you're having a sexual experience with something other than her. not intercourse, obviously - but an experience, no less. moreover, you're getting sexual satisfaction from something other than her.

and what happens is she experiences the same feelings as she would if you physically "cheated" (had an affair). everyone gets caught in the literal translation of what is & isn't cheating - as though the technical definition has any bearing on the impact. it doesn't.

what might be important to you is not how close you've been able to dance next to the line of actual cheating, but that what you've done has produced in her the same feelings as actual cheating.

is it OK to masturbate? what can/can't you think about when you do it? again, you're trying to see how close you can get to the flame without actually getting burned. why don't you see how close you can get to your wife instead? or see how far you can get away from the things that are destructive to a marriage - porn, infidelity, fantasizing about other women. instead of getting as much of that as you can without cheating - get as little of it as you can.

your wife is hurt when you get off looking at other women. period. people might tell you that's her problem & she needs to change. i think that's silly.

but regardless, that's how she feels. honor those feelings. she forgave you because you hurt her, whether intentional or not. to ignore her forgiveness because you don't think you did anything wrong is arrogant. if you accidentally stepped on her toe & hurt her - and she forgave you, would you argue about not meaning to do it? give me a break.

explain that you have a hard time controling your desire for sex & you would like to have more of it with her. recognize that porn is a worthless substitute for what the two of you have together, tell her you'll stay away from it & that you're sorry for looking at anyone else but her.

and then stay away from it.

if your mind wanders while you masturbate, be careful. i can't tell you where the line is - you can't control your thoughts all the time. but you can decide how far to indulge them.

my advice is to try, as much as possible, to avoid getting off on thoughts of anyone else but her.

just try.

i'm sorry i didn't see this thread sooner.

[C]

Make her happy and get away from the Porn.....Masturbate if you have to relieve yourself. I do this as my husband could not keep up with me and that is just a simple fact of life. What I am thinking when I jack off could be Porn....I have a great memory of hot and horny things in my head to bring forward and help me to this place of erotic bliss where I go......And believe me it does not take that long to get there... Sometimes I am bugged off that I get myself aroused that fast....Must be that I am a good lover even to myself....

We all need to masturbate at time.....At least that is my excuse and it is not up for arguments.....I rule in my body and my mind.....What I think in my head is private.......I don't share and don't want to......You are not cheating, you are just having fun when she does not want to have fun.......Make up the places in your mind that you have to go to find these places of sensual pleasure but NEVER let this interfere with your sex life with your wife. Try and make this a private thing that only you do........My husband would never nor never will watch me do this.....So I don't push it nor never will....

[anonymouswhitefemale]

I have a great memory of hot and horny things in my head to bring forward and help me to this place of erotic bliss where I go....

We all need to masturbate at time.....At least that is my excuse and it is not up for arguments.....I rule in my body and my mind.....What I think in my head is private.......I don't share and don't want to......You are not cheating, you are just having fun when she does not want to have fun.......Make up the places in your mind that you have to go to find these places of sensual pleasure but NEVER let this interfere with your sex life with your wife.

For once I agree with Caroline.

[Guest]

For once I agree with Caroline.

i agree with her too on many points, here & in other posts as well.

there's one thing i disagree with, though, and i'm pointing out simply because i think this is central.

"I rule in my body and my mind"

i would argue that, once you get married, you lay down your sole rule over your mind & body, and hand that over to your spouse, who does the same with you.

this is what is so scary about marriage - and why porn hurts (women, typically) so much in a marriage. my wife lays down her perfect command of her body & mind, and places her heart in my hands. if she holds it herself, she has ultimate control over whether or not she gets hurt, gets betrayed, gets mistreated.

but when she gives it to me, she gives me the ability to do those things. for so many women, a husband's using porn is as though he threw the heart she handed him aside - tossed it carelessly on the floor while he chased his own interests, and often other women.

she thinks, "how could you betray me like that?? i trusted you."

he's left thinking, "what?? what did i do?" le the author of this post. he has no idea that, for her, he has treated recklessly the very thing that she trusted him to protect.

i am not suggesting, caroline, that you treat your husband carelessly. i think it's obvious in your posts that your husband's blessed to have you. i'm admittedly pulling thacomment out of context to make a point. please don't take that as an attack - though i'd welcome your response to my ideas here if you disagree.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

"I rule in my body and my mind"

i would argue that, once you get married, you lay down your sole rule over your mind & body, and hand that over to your spouse, who does the same with you.

I suppose this is essentially where we part ways - at least so far in my life I haven't been ready or willing to make a commitment of that sort, so I suppose I can't really understand or contribute at the same level.

[LadyLane]

I disagree there too, and I am in a committed relationship. No matter how much in love you are, you can't control what your partner thinks - you should know the way they think before you decide to be with them, but once you're together, and no matter how much you're in love, you don't share every thought, nor should you.

As far as your body goes, that still belongs to you too. I mean, if I wanted to get breast implants or a face lift, I'd have to discuss it with my husband for the simple fact that he would be paying for it, lol. But when I want to go tanning, or get a different haircut or want to try a new sex toy, I don't ask permission, I just do it.

[Guest]

no you don't share thoughts, of course. your thoughts are still in your head. and it's not that you would control one another's thoughts.

my point is that a spouse's thoughts (& actions) should honor their partner - rather than simply serve the self. a spouse has to consider things that a single person doesn't.

if you're single & cultivating fantasies about the neighbor's daughter - well, OK. but if you're married & lying next to your spouse & cultivating those fantasies - you're dishonoring your spouse. you can no longer just throw your thoughts in whatever direction you please. you have to think about how they impact your spouse, her feelings, her needs.

there's a fine line & it's difficult to talk about in a 2 dimensional forum. i wouldn't ever suggest that a spouse hands over - literally - their control over their body & mind. it's a mutual submission, really - a willingness to lay down our ultimate control, our rights, so to speak, and to decide that we will consider our spouse while we exercize that control.

anon:

for whatever it may be worth, i commend you for this:

I suppose this is essentially where we part ways - at least so far in my life I haven't been ready or willing to make a commitment of that sort

i'm convinced that if more people undertood the gravity of the decision to marry as you do, there would be fewer divorces - & fewer miserable mariages.

[Blondie:)]

Nicely Said!!

Thank you (whilhelm) We have some real men left in this world!!! We wouldn't have these insecure( as everyone calls it) woman in this world with men that still love and respect their partners and want to please them, without being self pleased first! I have read your quote over and over and some others need to do the same.
Turn the porn off ..feel your partners needs don't watch some acting to fulfill just your's alone it will eventually tear the relationship apart.

You quoted:

(my wife lays down her perfect command of her body & mind, and places her heart in my hands. if she holds it herself, she has ultimate control over whether or not she gets hurt, gets betrayed, gets mistreated.

but when she gives it to me, she gives me the ability to do those things. for so many women,- a husband's using porn as though he threw the heart she handed him aside - tossed it carelessly on the floor while he chased his own interests, and often other women.)

I just think thats AWESOME!!!

[Guest]

it's not cheating and she's being over controlling.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

it's not cheating and she's being over controlling.

Now why would you write on a thread that was written in January 2008, and further more where he never came back?

Ahhh....

I wasn't even around then. lol.

MMM.

CW