[sugar_shaneh]

My wife and I have had our ups and downs. We are on a bit of a downside now, and its hit rock bottom to be honest. I think both of our issues are valid, but the way we are handling them is getting out of control. I am seeking some advice on the best way to handle the constant back and forth of placing blame.

I will start with her issues first. She feels let down financially. I am not currently working, and was going to beauty school to become a hair stylist. I had worked in an office setting previously, and was looking for a change. She is a hair stylist, and has always made much more money than I did. She is very talented and has a great work ethic. We have two children. I stayed home with them after our second was born in July 2006. I returned to work the following year. That was unsuccessful, and left a bitter taste in my mouth. While on unemployment the change in career was discussed, and so I went forward on that. Now over the last two years she has carried the burden of being the sole breadwinner for the family. We have a terrible mortgage, and we have just enough money to get by. This has finally taken its toll on her, and she wants more. Which I completely understand. I have put school on hold for now, and am looking for a full time job. I am interviewing for the job I left when our daughter was born next week. Good pay and great bennies... She tends to internalize her problems, which the longer she holds that in, she becomes angry. During our last argument about our situation, she said she has a hard time wanting to do anything for me because she is so mad at me.

My issues are much different. I am very open and verbal with my feelings and emotions. We went to counseling about a year ago. I thought it went well. I found out after that she didn't think it did anything, and she didn't like going. So as our communication problems persisted I brought home two books. One about communication, and one about sex. I have read them both, and could really help us. She wont read them. She has said she will, but it’s been close to 6 months and she hasn't yet. We have no skills in conflict resolution. We have an attack defend way of trying to settle our arguments. This always ends with us trying to push our own views of the situation on the other. Sex has become a constant struggle since our daughter was born. I am looking to have some consistency with either frequency, or in what we are doing. Currently I have no say in either. Over time I am unable to hide my anger, frustration, and hurt when I make advances and am told no. It used to be a bit disappointing, but now it just plain hurts.

So my question is this: She needs me to back of a bit and not put so much pressure on her about our relationship. I need her to put some effort in to making our relationship better. The less effort I see the more I push, the more I push, the more she withdraws. Until I am working again canceling is going to have to wait, and I am not even sure that will be an option because she doesn't like it. Is there any advice I can get about how to deal with this situation?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

It seems her anger stems from the constant struggle of finances.

When one person feels they are "alone" in this area, and a fair amount of time goes by, they lose respect, get mad and lose any form or want or desire of intimacy. They feel they are it, it is all up to them, the pressure is huge.

I know this as a fact, as i was her, and my ex-husband was you in this area.

It's not a concern in-between jobs but after 12 months? Longer, the pressure is immense, i can't explain that better to you than that.

What you are after sexually is not attainable, she is holding anger and i think a lose of respect.

You obviously agreed to a certain course which has not gone down the right path and job and hopeful to regain the employment you had originally.

I think until you are working so the marriage becomes a bit more equal, you can't work towards your sexual intimate side of that marriage.

As a woman, i would want my husband to seek any employment, no matter what, digging ditches, cash register, who cares, just assist in taking the pressure of me, not going for your dreams of what you want to be, until you can do that financially as things are stable.

I am stressing the importance of financial, because it it one of the biggest killers in a marriage and i am not blaming you rather, stating, you will be the blame as you don't work.

So i am suggesting, if this job doesn't pan out next week, go get any job walk the streets for fundraisers and earn an income, it is way to much pressure for one person to take on, to get that mortgage paid and food on the table and nappies for the children.. Way too much..

It doesn't matter that she is successful in her career, so was/am i, it's just the pressure of feeling that "you are alone" in all of this.

So i wouldn't read books either...

I think once you have employment, and the pressure is of, you will be equal, as such you can then work towards sharing a few things as well, and bring back a bit of laughter, as you can probably even afford to go out for a meal without the kids every now and then and be a couple again, everything else should fall back into place the way it used to be.

As i said, i'm not being one sided, i just see the immense burden one has to carry to pay a mortgage and look after a family. I have no doubt you clean, look after the kids, cook, as she works, it's the stress, constant stress that is associated with finance that brings someone to this point.

CW

[sugar_shaneh]

First I want to thank you for your reply. Your reply is what I am looking to understand more about. You have said some of the exact things my wife has. I am seeking outside opinions because they are not as jaded as the opinions I recieve from my friends, and it's tough to actively listen to her in the heat of the moment. I want honest outside views so I can try and look at things objectively which is tough when you are feeling hurt.

As far as my job search goes, it has not started, nor ended with my seeking to return to a previous job. I am very active in my search, and should have something very soon. Its not as though I am unwilling to work. When I read your response, and when I hear my wife say those things, I feel slighted in what I actually do. I take good care of the house, and children. She never has to cook or clean when she works. Her sole responsibility is working at this time.

I was spending 30+ hours a week at school, and we just found a baby sitter, which was initially sought to get done with school sooner.

I have been the one to stay home with the kids if they were sick,When I started school we were in counseling and talked at depth about it. She stated that me being happy, and having a career was the most important thing. It would make everyone happy. We tried to refinance our house, and our credit would not allow that to happen. So back to work I go.

Now here is what I don't understand about your response. I feel as though I am the one who is responsible for anything that is related to the children and home. I cook, clean, and take care of the children as a housewife would. When we were both working, I was the one to take off work to be with them, or leave for appointments. I understand that there should be more equal ground in both areas. Now if I am willing to work on the things that she needs, why did you not feel as though she should have to put any effort into doing what it is that I need. As angry and hurt as she feels is as equal as angry and hurt as I am.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

First I want to thank you for your reply. Your reply is what I am looking to understand more about. You have said some of the exact things my wife has. I am seeking outside opinions because they are not as jaded as the opinions I recieve from my friends, and it's tough to actively listen to her in the heat of the moment. I want honest outside views so I can try and look at things objectively which is tough when you are feeling hurt.

Firstly, i would have to say that your first paragraph deserves a medal, most partners aren't prepared to seek, and if they do, they don't listen.

Understand, i can only reply based on what i am reading. As a business owner, and the bread winner previously, i read "perhaps" how she may be feeling.. You have clarified that she has stated the same.

I also suspect that she is a "career orientated person" and as such, has assumed that position. From this reply you have given. And as such, she needs to understand that she "chose" to work, successfully that's "her passion" and therefore she can not put that blame on you, rather respect your support of allowing her to continue this even though there are children in the acquation.

As far as my job search goes, it has not started, nor ended with my seeking to return to a previous job. I am very active in my search, and should have something very soon. Its not as though I am unwilling to work. When I read your response, and when I hear my wife say those things, I feel slighted in what I actually do. I take good care of the house, and children. She never has to cook or clean when she works. Her sole responsibility is working at this time.

It is good when someone elaberates, usually from reading a reply, more is stated and easier to get a bigger picture. Underneath this paragraph you mention " she wanted you to do the course and go down your own career path". Above, which i think i stated as well no doubt you do the cleaning/cooking/children etc...

So, there i think she needs to be TOLD, that you have also allowed her the luxury of continuing her passion, her work, whilst you assumed the Mr Husband, Mr Mum role. You supported HER DREAM.

This to was stated by my ex- we did not have children, but he did support my career no doubt, i know that. But i never neglected, i cooked/cleaned/gardens etc as well. But therefore, as a result, i can relate to the other person not appreciating, as he did not appreciate that i not only bought the income in but acted as a wife with all the chores as well.

So i think she needs to understand the support you have given in order for her career to continue.

Previously, it sounded like she worked you didn't does that make sense? Now you advise that it is something she loves and you assumed the other role.

I was spending 30+ hours a week at school, and we just found a baby sitter, which was initially sought to get done with school sooner.

I have been the one to stay home with the kids if they were sick,When I started school we were in counseling and talked at depth about it. She stated that me being happy, and having a career was the most important thing. It would make everyone happy. We tried to refinance our house, and our credit would not allow that to happen. So back to work I go.

Seems she was happy for you to have your own dreams and goals, however, financially she can't cope with you having them now. But again, now that you have advised this, which wasn't in the previous thread, it appears if she is "stating what i am " re - financial pressure she is also not prepared to let go of her position, for you to find your passion?

Appreicate it is not feasible at the moment but would she allow that if the pressure wasn't on her?

Ie) if you could cope with part time work, financially but still do your course and both look after the cleaning/cooking and children, equality there, would she consider this? It's both your lives there....


Now here is what I don't understand about your response. I feel as though I am the one who is responsible for anything that is related to the children and home. I cook, clean, and take care of the children as a housewife would. When we were both working, I was the one to take off work to be with them, or leave for appointments. I understand that there should be more equal ground in both areas. Now if I am willing to work on the things that she needs, why did you not feel as though she should have to put any effort into doing what it is that I need. As angry and hurt as she feels is as equal as angry and hurt as I am.

I think i have answered the above paragraph in the content of this post.

As i said, when you get "tid bits" you can relate to those bits only.

So, i see:

She is in a financial spin and can't cope.
She expects you to do all the other work/kids as she is working, fair call.
She did want you to have a career but alas, can't cope financially.


You were happy doing your course?
You were prepared to look after the house/kids/cook whilst she worked so she could still have her passion, no so much she works you don't.
You were prepared to forgoe your course and actively look for work as this doesn't seem to be working.
You are writing and asking for advise - seeked councelling - reading books - everything you can muster - she is not interested?


Then if i am correct with all of this?

She is being mighty selfish.

The pressure is understandable but she created a lot of it herself by continuing with her career and of course you assumed your role.

She should be assisting with cooking/housework and kids as simply playing a part in a family irrespective who does what.

She should understand that you need your dream to and that you have supported hers, so a solution is neccessary on how you can do this, ie) part time work, with the course and both share household responsibilities.

As for sex, she's angry, she won't budge as she thinks she is right solely ....

Until she realises what you have given up for her, she won't budge.

As i said, this reply you gave gives more info that the thread you created...

Let's see if anything here jells?

I am a woman for sure, but i am objective trust me, pends on info..

CW

[CEBOULD]

no holds barred

well i have read you post about the problem at hand and i don't mean to be blunt so please hear me out
the first mistake you all made was you taking off to raise the kids and putting all financial responsibility on your spouse when you already had a killer mortgage i understand not wanting to put the kids in day care and that it would be better if one parent stayed home but that is the main reason why you all are having these problems and i understand that the job you had was not ideal but we as adults and parents have to suck it up and carry on so that our spouses wont have to shoulder everything and it seems like your wife has been for quite awhile and taking it all in regardless of the stress until shes so ****ed that it comes out and its not a very pretty nor will it be understanding of your feeling and the counseling is not going to work because the burden is still there until you get a job and take your share of the burden then nothing will help it will only get worse
and about the sex your can forget about getting more of it or changing it up until you get a job cause her mind she cant lean on you, you are not her rock if she crumbled right now you all would be up **** creek allot of people will sugar coat it or tell you that its not all about money but thats a lie did you all have these problems while you were working when everything was not dependent on her i even know men who make six figures that have house wives that they look at as weak cause they cant depend on them if the day comes that something happens to them and its like what now you don't have that spouse that suppose to be your rock to lean on and in this day age both of you should have a job the cost of living is going up by the day the only thing you need to be doing until you get a job is when she wants to vent let her give her space try to pamper her she deserves it but when you do get a job let a couple of pay periods go by then be straight up with her about the sex tell her that it has to get better be very detailed tell her whats going to make you happy also let her know that if it does not get better then the relationship is not going to work i don't know one person who can say that if the sex at home is not good enough or they are not getting there fill then they will just deal with it once you do what you have to do about the financial problem then the rest is a compromise both of you have to be willing and upfront and completely truthful or you will end up apart if you wife is worth it then save you marriage do what ever it is you can possibly do and if it still does not work and your not happy then you have a decision to make i understand you have kids but if the parents are not happy neither are the kids they may be young but they know something is wrong
hope this helped a little and it shows how much you love your family i hope every thing works it self out be strong

[CHANDLERS WISH]

well i have read you post about the problem at hand and i don't mean to be blunt so please hear me out
the first mistake you all made was you taking off to raise the kids and putting all financial responsibility on your spouse when you already had a killer mortgage i understand not wanting to put the kids in day care and that it would be better if one parent stayed home but that is the main reason why you all are having these problems and i understand that the job you had was not ideal but we as adults and parents have to suck it up and carry on so that our spouses wont have to shoulder everything and it seems like your wife has been for quite awhile and taking it all in regardless of the stress until shes so ****ed that it comes out and its not a very pretty nor will it be understanding of your feeling and the counseling is not going to work because the burden is still there until you get a job and take your share of the burden then nothing will help it will only get worse
and about the sex your can forget about getting more of it or changing it up until you get a job cause her mind she cant lean on you, you are not her rock if she crumbled right now you all would be up **** creek allot of people will sugar coat it or tell you that its not all about money but thats a lie did you all have these problems while you were working when everything was not dependent on her i even know men who make six figures that have house wives that they look at as weak cause they cant depend on them if the day comes that something happens to them and its like what now you don't have that spouse that suppose to be your rock to lean on and in this day age both of you should have a job the cost of living is going up by the day the only thing you need to be doing until you get a job is when she wants to vent let her give her space try to pamper her she deserves it but when you do get a job let a couple of pay periods go by then be straight up with her about the sex tell her that it has to get better be very detailed tell her whats going to make you happy also let her know that if it does not get better then the relationship is not going to work i don't know one person who can say that if the sex at home is not good enough or they are not getting there fill then they will just deal with it once you do what you have to do about the financial problem then the rest is a compromise both of you have to be willing and upfront and completely truthful or you will end up apart if you wife is worth it then save you marriage do what ever it is you can possibly do and if it still does not work and your not happy then you have a decision to make i understand you have kids but if the parents are not happy neither are the kids they may be young but they know something is wrong
hope this helped a little and it shows how much you love your family i hope every thing works it self out be strong

I initially agreed with all you said, and i do agree finance is such a burden it eats at you, you hate people because of it, it never ends, the stress alone can kill you.


But, after the threader posted the second reply, i can see other side of it all and i am not sure if you read that particular post?

One has to stay at home if there are children and one is working, as there is no affordability in child care? On one wage? And a huge mortgage?

If i read that second thread correctly, it is evident that he has been Mr Mum, which is very common, equality no longer exists as to whom is the worker and whom is the mum.

He gave up his course to make their life better, financially and his dream because it wasn't affordable, they need more income.

And, in my opinion as one whom was the breadwinner AND, the housewife rolled into one, whilst one sat and watched car racing, never even fed the animals, let alone watered the garden to help, or cooked dinner, or started dinner, whilst i arrived at 8pm from working 9am - that time, i understand your feelings and i think this threader knows that...

So as such, i am "her" in this scenario, yet he has done nothing but accomodate "her" needs.

The pressure is the stress of the finances, absolutely agree.

But the pressure on him is also hard, whilst he goes from course, to no course, to house mum, to now i have to work, the confusion must surely be difficult? What is he meant to be? Who is he meant to be? Has he even lost his identity?

It's equality in my opinion let's find a plan where we all work together on this and make it happy, now, and in the future.

What do we do for 'NOW' and then what can we change it to in the future, including him following his dream.

As i said, i wrote much like you in the first reply but having read the second, i will still stand with these thoughts as equality of being happy is even an issue and should be the case.

Financially, it will always be tough for all of us in life, it is the nature of the beast.

Finding solutions to ALL problems is important.

I don't diss her at all for feeling pain, pressure and anger at this point, as she is stressed to the hilt.

Nor do i think reading about sexuality etc is important at this point in time.

Communication and getting to the root of it all and working it out for mutual benefit so the marriage is back on track where it belongs is the crutial issue here in my opinion.

CW

[C]

Did you marry to be the wife or the husband???? I think we are seeing just the tip of the iceberg.....

[sugar_shaneh]

I think i have answered the above paragraph in the content of this post.

As i said, when you get "tid bits" you can relate to those bits only.

So, i see:

She is in a financial spin and can't cope.
She expects you to do all the other work/kids as she is working, fair call.
She did want you to have a career but alas, can't cope financially.


You were happy doing your course?
You were prepared to look after the house/kids/cook whilst she worked so she could still have her passion, no so much she works you don't.
You were prepared to forgoe your course and actively look for work as this doesn't seem to be working.
You are writing and asking for advise - seeked councelling - reading books - everything you can muster - she is not interested?


Then if i am correct with all of this?

She is being mighty selfish.

The pressure is understandable but she created a lot of it herself by continuing with her career and of course you assumed your role.

She should be assisting with cooking/housework and kids as simply playing a part in a family irrespective who does what.

She should understand that you need your dream to and that you have supported hers, so a solution is neccessary on how you can do this, ie) part time work, with the course and both share household responsibilities.

As for sex, she's angry, she won't budge as she thinks she is right solely ....

Until she realises what you have given up for her, she won't budge.

As i said, this reply you gave gives more info that the thread you created...

Let's see if anything here jells?

I am a woman for sure, but i am objective trust me, pends on info..

CW

A few things here I want to clarify for you.

When I am at school she does clean and cook. I was gone from 9-8 three days a week. Those days she takes care of the house. I ensure that there is nothing too much for her to do.

Yes I we are in a bit of a financial spin due to our mortgage not being refinanced. When that didn't happen I started to look for work. As the search was tough when going to school, I stopped going to school so I could spend the 3 days I have without the children out looking for work.

I love doing hair. I think it is absolutely perfect for my personality, and feel as though I wasted a lot of time not getting into that profession earlier. I can still go, and found a different school that I can go to on just Saturdays. It will be hard seeing that I will be away from home 60+ ours a week with traffic. I will be tired, and want to spend time with the children on my days off, so I am not sure whats going to happen there.

I can understand that working on sex is not a priority. That is not the only thing I am asking. I have tried to do things to change the way we are communicating. I started writing a diary so we could express our feelings. My hope with that was we could stop our attack/defend way of arguing, and it would give us time to express our thoughts without saying things we didnt mean. That was given up on rather quickly. Im having trouble with the fact that while I am searching for a job and sacrificing something I care about, why can't she put some effort into making our relationship better while Im doing that. She has said she will feel more free to do so after I start working. I don't see money as the answer here. Its part of the problem for sure, but the other issues are much more important to me.

[sugar_shaneh]

Did you marry to be the wife or the husband???? I think we are seeing just the tip of the iceberg.....

LOL, I am not sure what you mean by this. I think that a lot of men would not be willing to be with the children like I am. Because it is unconventional, does not mean there is something behind it... In my eyes you marry to be with the one you love forever and do your part for what is best for the family. She makes more in a full day than I do in a week. Some men would feel intimidated, or inferior to that, but I honestly could care less about it...

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Good to see the LOL...


You obviously think with both sides, logical and feelings.

Perhaps your wife is a more logical minded person.

Just follow your dream be it Saturday's only, and once you obtain work, then see how it travels from there.

I can't see anything changing at this point.

And, i do believe that she has taken the financial situation extremely hard, where stress is involved.

Stress creates a world of un-wants such as anger and words spoken not usually said.

Take away some of that stress and then work towards the other areas that are obviously necessary for your marriage, communication, feelings, happiness.

As the other poster said and i did agree, finances are a killer in peoples mind, fear sets in, constant stress.

Go from there.

CW