[WildChild]

I agree Alison, we are ultimately responsible for our own health and for knowing our bodies and being aware. We need to educate ourselves as best we can and make our health care providers our partners in getting the care that we want and need. That means taking responsibility for having a healthy diet, getting appropriate exersize, wearing comfortable, non restrictive clothing and shoes, getting adequte sleep, avoiding negative behaviors such as misuse of alcohol, tobacco and drugs. It also means interacting with others to develop healthy supportive relationships.

We must do all of this and then use the medical tests and services available in an appropriate manner. Sometimes that is difficult. Here in the US, fear of malpractice suits and insurance company requirements, result in over use of some tests and treatments and may limit treatment in other cases. Add to that the INSANE stuff that goes on in a still male dominated field where breast cancer treatment trials may still use men as subjects and despite heart attack being a major killer of women a shocking number of people providing health care (as well as ordinary women) are unaware that women experience very different signs of heart attack than what men exhibit. Women are actually slightly over half the population, yet many drug and treatment trials have been done primarily or exclusively on men - women's hormone balances are different and they often respond very differently than men. You have watch and question if dosages are based on weight or body mass rather than the standard of an "average" male - which many dosages are based on. (my ex was a essentially a giant and ran into the problem of being under dosed because of this, so it isn't just women who have to be aware of it)

Ultimately it is your body, you live in it and you have to care for it and safeguard it.

[Guest]

Interesting...the differences between countries that have socialized medicine and no tort based law practiced, I believe every country mentioned above except the U.S. and medicine offered by the private or non-governmental sector where tort law is practiced....as in the U.S.

Ultimately, it's your body, so treat it as you see fit. Just be willing to accept the consequences/results of your decisions.

[Guest]

"Just be willing to accept the consequences/results of your decisions."

Many women don't see that statement EQUALLY applies to cancer screening and so-called preventative exams. ALL cancer screening carries risk - the thing is to weigh up the risks and benefits and consider your risk profile.
Yet most women are not actively involved in their health care. Men are offered screening WITH risk information and the legal and ethical requirement of informed consent matters....women are told they "should" or "must" screen with no real information and are often provided with misleading and incorrect information. I often read that cervical cancer is common, which is untrue, it's rare and always was - false positives and over-treatment are common.

The pap test was never properly assessed before its release, no RCT's, so we'll never know for sure whether it helps anyone, but we do know, if it helps anyone, they're small numbers. (possibly 0.45%-0.65%)
We also know the majority of women are harmed to some degree by the test - in the States, 95% will be referred to cover a lifetime risk of less than 1% - that's huge over-detection and your doctors have the worst reputation for aggressive over-treatment, leaving many women with serious and continuing problems.
In Australia, we have 77% referred for a lifetime risk of 0.65%...still very high.
It's not hard to work out that some women might consider that a bad deal. (if informed consent were respected and they were provided with the facts.)

Australian doctors can be sued, just as American doctors can be sued - of course, I accept American doctors have more to fear from legal liability and that encourages aggressive over-examining and over-treatment. The thing that greatly concerns me are the dishonest "messages" that are provided to women - myth then becomes fact.
It makes no sense to me to fear a rare cancer - if I searched on line now, I'd find forum after forum full of women worrying and being "treated" for dysplasia, abnormal cells & pre-cancer - and not much on bowel, thyroid, brain or liver cancer - yet all of those cancers pose a greater threat than cervical cancer. I believe many real health risks are overlooked with this huge focus on a rare cancer, like obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc

It's interesting that stomach cancer has also fallen over the decades with NO screening at all - probably due to better diet. CC was also in decline before screening started - we know other factors were and are at work - more hysterectomies, fewer women smoking, better condoms (since AIDS) and Dr Gilbert Welch suggests less sexually transmitted disease and better hygiene in his book, "Over-diagnosis".
So, I quite agree - a decision to screen or not to screen carries risk - and every woman should judge that for herself - but the thing that concerns me is that few women are doing that and the profession seem determined not to treat women like adults, but continue to "recommend" with no real information, basically making decisions and accepting risk for us and that's unacceptable - we're placing our healthy bodies on the line.
Personally, I don't mind if women screen or not, it's their decision, but it concerns me that women are not provided with the information they need to make an informed decision. That must change...

[Guest]

Sorry, meant to write - renal, bowel, thyroid and bladder cancers are all more common than cervical cancer. (and many others) The SEER statistics on line are worth reading, they give you a good idea of risk - lung cancer is the No 1 killer, also bowel cancer is a fairly common cancer. I know funding for bowel cancer screening (FOT) here is limited and testing is a fairly recent thing - even though bowel cancer claims MANY more lives than cc.
I'm still reading up on the risks and benefits of that test....

[Guest]

As a general rule, I'm not here to debate, especially someone who makes broad sweeping generalizations/statements mixed with "facts" or data that they have found on the internet.

You obviously have strong opinions, perhaps even a bias, in making your point/case.

You have stated your opinions at great length in the five posts you have made here.

Your body is a temple....treat it accordingly.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Eliz52

Welcome to the Forum ...



Firstly, I'd like to address the purpose and rules of this Forum and suggest you take 5 minutes out to read those rules. (Link at the bottom of my page)

We do not allow outbound links.

We do not "force an opinion" or dis-respect members by claiming they are in-correct:-

The previous posts are incorrect, you don't need pelvic or breast exams for the Pill"

"In your opinon" good sentence to start using, our members offer their opinons, experiences, thoughts... That is what this Forum is about. We are NOT Doctors and one of our statements makes that very clear in our FAQ rules, and if in doubt - "Seek a Doctors opinion"....

A non sexual teenager will not be asked to have a pap smear, when enquiring about going on the pill, generally that's the rule, makes sense in my opinion, she is not sexually active therefore would not have any STD's.

Yes, in my opinion Doctors "use" this concept and make people "believe" that it has to be done as an effective way to encourage a woman to get regular pap smears"...A Con? Maybe, but a good thing? I think so...this came from my Doctor when I asked her, years ago.

I am not in a million years going to make a definate statement pertaining to other Countries as whether it is manditory or whether it's the above because I live in Australia...

The Internet is an interesting place, I never pay 100% attention to what I read, if I want advise, I ask the person whom can give that to me, and give that to me honestly, in this case a Doctor...

Never believe all you read on the Internet, naturally people can write what they want, certainly some quotations from Doctors that have the correct backing to their claims should be thought about.. However, I've actually read an apology from a Doctor whom suggested Pap Smears, until she read the stories of the pain "some" women have gone through, she still in any event, suggested that they be done, but not as frequent and with caution as to "knowledge" of how it is done.

What size to use, how active or in-active a woman is, whether she will allow this foreign object inside her or will it hurt because she is so tense, or small there, is the Doctor understanding, patient and will take his/her time, etc, etc, etc.

I've 52 and have never had one and couldn't be healthier.

Are you sure? Not to be rude, and I appreciate that there are more serious Cancer's out there, but unless you have a Pap Smear, you will not know if you have Cervical Cancer, and if so, what stage it is up to...There is no other way of telling, I don't care if it's 1% chance, I would want to know... And, I speak from experience, I've had it... If I did not have the Pap Smears, it would have been stage 3, I just caught it..



Alison (Aus)

Why do we have to have a ‘medical degree’ to research intelligently and then make an informed decision?

Are you so frightened by your own female bodies that you need another person to tell you if you’re healthy or not ‘down there’? Our reproductive organs are not that complicated, healthy asymptomatic women don’t need constant medical surveillance.

In general terms our body tells us when there is something wrong, a lump comes up, we feel down and out, no energy, our throat is sore...

But, Pap Smears, detect, Cervical Cancer, HPV, STD's...Can you seriously state that 100% of women, sexually active from as young as 18, are protected from STD's? HPV? They trust their partners right?

Off course a mature woman whom has only had one partner all her life and is in a loving, trusting relationship, possibly should not fear at all...

But, we know the majority of women whom say OMG I think I'm pregnant, OMG, I just contracted HPV, how could he, OMG, there is something going on down there, this is the description, what is it? (Warts)...

It is therefore, in my opinion, sensible to have a Pap Smear.


Eliz52

It's interesting that stomach cancer has also fallen over the decades with NO screening at all - probably due to better diet.

The pap test was never properly assessed before its release, no RCT's, so we'll never know for sure whether it helps anyone, but we do know, if it helps anyone, they're small numbers. (possibly 0.45%-0.65%)
We also know the majority of women are harmed to some degree by the test

Yes we will, it caught cancer in me.... That's all I need as proof that it works.

And, Doctors are not Gods, they make mistakes...Often in Australia, the patients are pushing in and out so fast, (Bulk billing) that the Doctor does not have time, to listen, does not have time to think and be gentle, or ascertain what tampon she uses, oh small, then maybe I better use the smallest one, go slow... Or they don't think of it...

Often the woman wipes herself dry as a bone through embarressment and a Doctor places only a small amount of gell on the instrument not knowing and it hurts, would a Doctor think of asking are you wet enough? Or would they?

I recall a male Doctor saying to me "are you always this dry?" when I was young...Nup, I wiped myself dry, through embarrassement, and can't tell you..He hurt me.

Your quotes stats, written words, I'm quoting experience, real life and in that, we are all different.

The OP wrote this on the 24th January, and hasn't returned to respond, however, I suggest that if she does and reads all of this, follow our golden rule, this is our opinions...We are not Doctors.

Seek professional advice as to whether you have to or not.

As for, having Pap Smears... Not a good thing to have cervical cancer... I would recommend that you go through it, awkward as it is, with the knowledge you've gained from your thread of questions to ask and offer advice on your body parts so they make it as comfortable as possible, if done right, it will not hurt.

In my opinion....

CW

[viola]

How old are you? You will eventually need to go to a gyno for your women needs. It's no big deal. Once a year for your pap exam. A part of womens health so just bite the bullet and go. Get a good reference from a friend. No women loves going, but you really get used to it and it is not any big deal after your 1st visit.
In the meantime, don't take chances. Use condoms, or VCF if used properly. That's your obtions.

[nikk]

Yes, in my opinion Doctors "use" this concept and make people "believe" that it has to be done as an effective way to encourage a woman to get regular pap smears"...A Con? Maybe, but a good thing? I think so...this came from my Doctor when I asked her, years ago.

How can you trust a doctor that admits to "conning" you and treats you like a child? Don't you think that you can make your own decisions about your healthcare? If American women had the lowest hysterectomy rates and the longest life spans in the world I would say that these regualr tests are worthwhile but I don't see the the benefits of these exams. Btw I read an article in the wall street journal just the other week of a doctor coming out and saying exactly what the poster was saying: pelvic exams are not of any use or needed for birth control.

[Guest]

There are approximately 465,000 licensed physicians in the U.S. One Dr's. opinion in the WSJ means nothing. Please show me a study or document or anything where 5 - 10% of the licensed medical professionals have come together and said something collectively. At least then you have an arguement.

We ALL have the freedom and the right to do with our bodies as we see fit. Nobody drags you into a physician's office and forces you ro do anything. If you don't agree, get a second opinion. If you still don't agree, for whatever reason, don't get the procedure done.

It's your body, treat it as you see fit.

[ItsASecret]

Don't you think that you can make your own decisions about your healthcare?

Yeah, people often do that. And some go as far as actually believing that reading wikipedia once or their friend's recommended blog site about medical conditions that is written by a high school drop out will trump the opinion of a doctor. Those people will believe they have 'bested' a doctor by reading an extremist anti-medicine viewpoint. I say go for it, if someone truly believes that opinion then by all means avoid medicine and doctors in general, if someone does not believe they will be of benefit then do not go to them. No one is a child being pulled by the ear being told what and how to do it. However the second they come across an actual situation in which they need a real medical doctor they need to decide what they want to do. Chemo for their cancer, or eat a herbal twig because someone on the internet said it is the newest cancer cure. Their opinion, their choice on how to go about their health plans. If one individual does not go see a doctor another will, no doctor is going to lose business with patients...someone is always willing to get their opinion or whichever procedure done while other people who choose not to (no insurance, terrified of doctors, think doctors are the devil, have a single bad experience, etc) will simply not go.