[reilu]

Reilu,

I did have the manual.

When I was a kid back in the 70's, my mom had all sorts of books lying around like "Our Bodies, Our Selves" which I read. I'm glad I did, but in general I think guys really aren't supposed to know that stuff. I mean, it's good background knowledge but I'm not sure how applicable it really is, when you think about what a guy realistically has to deal with as he's figuring out sex, dating, relationships, etc.

Also, I think the sense of frankness that was represented by that book and others like it was more prevalent in the 70's than it is now.

On the other hand, the current openness on Gay / Lesbian issues is a step forward.

i see your point again....haha but still.....for me personally, i would have liked those manuals a long time ago. it would have given me peace of mind.

[Richard S]

i see your point again....haha but still.....for me personally, i would have liked those manuals a long time ago. it would have given me peace of mind.

Actually, I just figured out what I was getting at. There are *so many* books about women, and they all say the same thing, that women have mixed and conflicted feelings about their own bodies, their role in society, how to handle marriage / housewife duties vs. having a career, how do deal with aging. In other words, they are meant to help women in their process of understanding themselves. They are "Women's Studies" material.

When a guy reads these books, he comes away feeling like he's probably going to be wrong no matter what he does, if he seduces her, he must be making her undervalue herself to give it away so easily. If he wants commitment, he is denying her free expression of her sexuality. If he marries her, he is taking away her career options. If he fathers children with her, he is shackling her to a traditional role that may not bring her the happiness she was told it would.

My point is that men will get mixed messages from trying to understand women that way. Better to just be a guy and know you're going to make mistakes along the way. I mean, that's just life, right?

[WildChild]

Richard you are a thinker! I can't speak for all women anymore than you can speak for all men, but our concerns vary and I've found that keeping a balance is the biggest challenge. Some women want to have what we think of as a traditional relationship/marriage- they want someone else in charge and are happy to make home and family the focus of their lives. Other women want a career and if they are truly devoted to that may choose not marry or have children, statistically women very high up in business are less likely than their male counterparts to be married or have kids. This may be because a wife often helps take the pressure off a man in his rise to prominance while husbands have been found not to. In otherwords the wife is more the woman behind the man, a husband is more likely to just do his own thing.

We are conflicted about our bodies and sexuality - centuries of being told we are the devil's tools can tend to ingrain that into the psyche. Woman's lib while stirring the pot a bit and shaking things up, promoted more the idea that women should be like men - we aren't and most don't function well in that role. It also pushed the idea that women should be able to do it "all" successfully - that hasn't worked out very well. Men haven't done it "all", they've had wives to share the load. Why on earth women would think they could do the wifing and the outside work too is hard to say.

We are still figuring this out. The messages are mixed; be dependant - be independant, think for yourself - deferr to a man, be strong -don't bruise his ego, love your body -but keep working to fit the ideal. Women still take majors in college in fields that don't pay well. Still defer their needs to other's, but now we feel inadequate for not being high earners, not being fully orgasmic, not being brightly happy all the time, not being everything to everyone. I think many give up and withdraw into depression or constant fault finding.

People, female and male, have all sorts of needs and desires and what we all need is to find our nitch. Find the relationship, lifework, lifestyle that works for us. Hopefully that is what we are moving toward, greater choice for all.

[reilu]

When a guy reads these books, he comes away feeling like he's probably going to be wrong no matter what he does, if he seduces her, he must be making her undervalue herself to give it away so easily. If he wants commitment, he is denying her free expression of her sexuality. If he marries her, he is taking away her career options. If he fathers children with her, he is shackling her to a traditional role that may not bring her the happiness she was told it would.

once again, i am seeing your point in all of this. but the guys wouldnt be reading the "women books". in the class im talking about that i wish was there for young teens, it wouldnt really be co-ed. i think there should be one for males,and one for females, but they both should touch on the other's anatomy as well.

and you are getting on some deep subjects....about a man marrying her and thinking he is taking away her freedoms of career choices, and etc etc. i understand what you mean, that its confusing for a man, but im talking about anatomical things, and functions, not conflicting feelings that a man , or woman for that matter, has when getting into relationships and marriage. i think thats more psychology and sociology. remember im talking about a health class, nothing incredibly confusing, or too deep of a topic. but i like that you brought that up. thats very interesting the way you explained it.

My point is that men will get mixed messages from trying to understand women that way. Better to just be a guy and know you're going to make mistakes along the way. I mean, that's just life, right?

are you talking about men getting mixed messages from learning about female anatomy and function? or are you talking about trying to figure her out another way? cuz if you are talking anatomical, then i dont think it would be too difficult.

[reilu]

Richard you are a thinker! I can't speak for all women anymore than you can speak for all men, but our concerns vary and I've found that keeping a balance is the biggest challenge. Some women want to have what we think of as a traditional relationship/marriage- they want someone else in charge and are happy to make home and family the focus of their lives. Other women want a career and if they are truly devoted to that may choose not marry or have children, statistically women very high up in business are less likely than their male counterparts to be married or have kids. This may be because a wife often helps take the pressure off a man in his rise to prominance while husbands have been found not to. In otherwords the wife is more the woman behind the man, a husband is more likely to just do his own thing.

We are conflicted about our bodies and sexuality - centuries of being told we are the devil's tools can tend to ingrain that into the psyche. Woman's lib while stirring the pot a bit and shaking things up, promoted more the idea that women should be like men - we aren't and most don't function well in that role. It also pushed the idea that women should be able to do it "all" successfully - that hasn't worked out very well. Men haven't done it "all", they've had wives to share the load. Why on earth women would think they could do the wifing and the outside work too is hard to say.

We are still figuring this out. The messages are mixed; be dependant - be independant, think for yourself - deferr to a man, be strong -don't bruise his ego, love your body -but keep working to fit the ideal. Women still take majors in college in fields that don't pay well. Still defer their needs to other's, but now we feel inadequate for not being high earners, not being fully orgasmic, not being brightly happy all the time, not being everything to everyone. I think many give up and withdraw into depression or constant fault finding.

People, female and male, have all sorts of needs and desires and what we all need is to find our nitch. Find the relationship, lifework, lifestyle that works for us. Hopefully that is what we are moving toward, greater choice for all.

wow, this is turning into a heavy topic!! hahaha its ok. i found my answer to my original question, so if this thread changes direction some, its no big deal!

[ItsASecret]

Even ask medical professionals today about GSpots and most of the time you'll just get a fuinny look. Women are subjected to surgery because some ejaculate during intense orgasms and their SO accuses them of urinating all the time.

Medical professionals will tell you what the spot is and that it is a location assumed to be in association with another type of female orgasm. There is literally nothing else to say about it, it is a tissue that in some women responds in a different way to tactile stimulation.

In Canada the grd 10 literacy tests show 34% are illiterate. Another 30%+ can read most of the words but can't assign a meaning to them - FUNCTIONALLY illiterate. The other 30+% can read "at grade" - which is, I believe, about a grd 6 level of 40 yrs ago.

Do we wanting modern "teachers" teaching our kids about sex? If they can't seem to teach ANYTHING ELSE do you trust them to teach sex?

Okay back up, its not the teachers fault that a student cannot grasp things. Teachers are taught in University to utilize all forms of education so that it covers the learning styles of all children. If Jimmy cannot understand how to spell and recognize the most basic of words a teacher will notice and will bring the matter to attention with the parents. If the parents then refuse to help their kid in anyway they can, they have successfully put another number into the statistical bin of functionally illiterate high school grads. Teachers do an amazing job, and they can only teach what they are told to. If the school board says "teach sex education and here is the material to be covered" they will do it. Want pictures of erections and vaginal secretions to teach our youth about whats out there? Bring it up with the government, do like was previously mentioned and start a campaign to "better educate the young".

[reilu]

Okay back up, its not the teachers fault that a student cannot grasp things. Teachers are taught in University to utilize all forms of education so that it covers the learning styles of all children. If Jimmy cannot understand how to spell and recognize the most basic of words a teacher will notice and will bring the matter to attention with the parents. If the parents then refuse to help their kid in anyway they can, they have successfully put another number into the statistical bin of functionally illiterate high school grads. Teachers do an amazing job, and they can only teach what they are told to. If the school board says "teach sex education and here is the material to be covered" they will do it. Want pictures of erections and vaginal secretions to teach our youth about whats out there? Bring it up with the government, do like was previously mentioned and start a campaign to "better educate the young"

its sad that some parents really have no interest at all in their children's education.....but i have met some, not many but there definately are some teachers who dont care. they are there for a paycheck, and they just regergitate (sp?) the material from the book, instead of explaining it. thats very sad.

[shweedart]

being young, my last sex education class was only a couple of years ago...And the text book we read from had a sticker covering up a picture of the female anatomy...however the male anatomy was fine to look at?!

And on tv...female nudity is censored and male nudity isn't?

Definate way to give girls a complex!
I wasn't fully sure how everything worked, or what did what down there (Luckily im a very curious person so I done my own research!) so it certainly needs to be more in depth when it comes to our anatomy!

[reilu]

being young, my last sex education class was only a couple of years ago...And the text book we read from had a sticker covering up a picture of the female anatomy...however the male anatomy was fine to look at?!thats upsetting.....why on earth wouldnt they show the female anatomy but show the male?? that makes no sense at all....

like when i took health, the boys were taught about their anatomy, and im almost positive they learned female anatomy as well, but the girls NEVER talked about their anatomy. WHY!?

[reilu]

aaaaahhhh!!! my quote thingy didnt work!!! grrrrrr

my input starts with "thats upsetting...." the stuff above is what shweedart said........grrr i dont know what happened :\