[Hopeless Dork]

Let me give you an example of a situation of my own. My boyfriend is very passive and has a horrible time initiating sex. One night, he gave me a massage, and it lead to sex. Since then, every time he wants sex he asks to give me a massage. I can lay there while he's massaging me and KNOW that this is not just a massage for me to relax and feel good. This is a massage because he's horny and wants to get me into an easy position to initiate sex. And he does. Every time. The last time, I had visited him even though I was absolutely exhausted. I could barely hold my eyes open. After we ate and took my dog on a walk, I laid on the couch to watch some tv and he sat beside me. In an instance when he doesn't want sex, he doesn't touch me anymore than just a hand on a leg or something like that. But in this instance, he was rubbing my legs, reaching up to rub my back, constant affection. I knew...

I can relate to this so much. My boyfriend always gives me affection at a moderate level and I love it. BUT when he is reallly really not in the mood for sex he will give me almost NO affection, as if he doesn't want anything to be misterperrated. His hugs don't feel as tight, his only touches my hand, etc...AND when he WANTS sex... his affection is very obviously increased to the point where I am like... yep, I know what he wants. And as MUCH as I want to have sex with him, as MUCH as I want him to want me, need him to want me... it almost hurts my feelings in those moments because it doesn't feel like its about me at all. It feels like he is just horny and looking for a means to an end. Know what I mean? Like when he is moderately affectionate, and it can go either way... thats when I love it the most because it feels like its our chemistry that leads to our sex.

But when he is immediatly rubbing and touching me, without me doing anything to evoke that response it feels like I just showed up at an opportune time... I don't know. Sometimes I love it when he is like that... but I can always tell the difference in his body language when he wants sex, doesn't want sex or is just open and in the middle and I definitely prefer it when its just neutral and swayed by our genuine feelings moment to moment.

[Ashlee T.]

then I think both parties have a responsibility to ensure that the other is regularly sexually satisfied.

I think this is only legitimate if all other areas of the relationship are being fulfilled too. If you're generally unaffectionate (not saying the OP is, I do not know that) unless it pertains to sex, if you're generally unromantic and show her little true compassion that doesn't relate to sex, then you should not expect her to to be your sex goddess. It goes both ways and I'd venture to guess if the OP's wife were the one posting on here, she'd have her own set of things in this relationship that make her feel unfulfilled. I can tell you from personal experience that at times in my life when I've been unsexual with a partner (with exception to the birth control issues I had), those feelings weren't destroyed on my own. Therefore, they can't be fixed one sidedly.

I think it takes two people who love each other, sitting down and spending time really communicating, in addition to true self reflection on the ways you could be negatively contributing to the relationship. Sometimes when it comes to sex in a relationship, people get truly selfish and get so resentful that they're not getting their sexual needs fulfilled, they ignore the areas in the relationship they are failing in.

[Ashlee T.]

But when he is immediatly rubbing and touching me, without me doing anything to evoke that response it feels like I just showed up at an opportune time... I don't know.

Yep!!!! I know this feeling. And I've even noticed that in those highly affectionate instances, once the sex is over, so is the increased affection. It's almost like a "I'm done now...needs fulfilled". I almost want to roll my eyes when he's doing the whole overly affectionate thing and say "Do you think I don't know what you're doing? Do you think you have to butter me up to get what you want?" I'd much rather him just say "I'm really horny." And save the massages, and the loads of affection for time when he truly just wants to touch me, wants to be close to me and wants me to feel good.

Affection and sex should not be synonymous. Period.

[oxy-moron]

That's an interesting theory. However, from what I'm reading this just means the time needed for a male to recover the ability to have an erection (minus a new and unfamiliar female) is...extended.
That is definitely not a problem for me yet.

The Author of Cupids Poison Arrow ( and researchers) think it also applies to females as well- After Orgasm there is a period of disinterest that can reach out to a month.
A of a lot of what you describe in your relationship sounds like my relationship.
I have been doing it for 25 Years though. I have also cooked 60-70 % of the time-
Even down to the way her friends treat her and her resenting time you spend on your family. Her controlling personality.

Children changed things a bit - making couple time almost disappear.
Possibly you married to young as well.
I think that now would be an ideal time to start experimenting with behavioural changes. Make sure you are sharing a bed as much as possible. And try changing your behaviour based on what the ladies have discussed.

[TroubledMan]

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all this sage advice...However..
This is a lifetime partnership, the affection giving is not the job of one person. It seems like most women need their man to magically know how to display affection without making it about sex. I don't know about other men, but I can have sex anytime, anywhere, almost any circumstance. It's just the way we've evolved. I think women have evolved this emotional barrier to sex as an overpopulation deterrent.

So just to recap...most men want sex all the time, period. Just because I touch your shoulder or do something nice for you doesn't mean it's time to go though. I get 0 affection from her besides the occasional kiss goodbye when she goes to work. I've brought this up to her, and that kind of thing just isn't her bag. I hug her too much too apparently. It's almost hard to keep all my thoughts in order when replying to this because there are just so many things wrong and frustrating. Maybe it is time to move on. I really hate to do that, but if she isn't going to pull her weight in this, it's not fair to me.

[WildChild]

Well I pretty much want sex all the time.But to keep wanting it with a particular, special man, I need to feel connected and that means not being treated like the only thing that attracts him is sex. That means non sexual touch. If she is rejecting touch it is because she "knows" that you will only touch her because you want sex. The only way I can think of to induce her to accept touch, which will help rebuild the connection and with it, her desire, is to create times to touch when you cannot possibly move toward sex.

This may mean that you have to exercise some restraint and deal with some frustration but you are frustrated anyway, so why not be frustrated in a good cause? When you are ready to leave, you have to get out the door, that's a good time for a real kiss or a quick shoulder rub. No time for complaints just do it and "bye honey, I've got to go". Keep finding windows of opportunity to touch or kiss or hug in passing. Look into her eyes and tell her you love her and then go, do something. Put your hands on her shoulders, look her in the eyes, tell her she is beautiful and then go. No expectations, no hopeful looks, no puppy with a ball, can we play now looks. This is a building process not a goal, or time line deal. As Oxy will tell you it takes some time but this can work wonders in many cases. Some men have come back and said that within a couple weeks things turned around, others have taken a couple months, some have had no results (hard to say if they really followed this or not). Its worth trying.

I disagree with the after sex turn off. It certainly doesn't apply to me. The more I get, the more I want. BUT if my needs aren't met I will quit wanting sex as much or at all - with that partner. Meeting a woman's needs is more than just being sure she orgasms. We need to feel valued for who we are and not just for access to the place between our legs. Men often think they are giving this but it isn't happening for the woman like they think it is.

I think my Books on Sex thread has a post about a free ebook, How To Please A Woman, by therapist, Pam Babbitt. Check that out, its excellent and for free there is no reason not give it a read.

[TroubledMan]

I have consistently done these things for years. Rub her feet here and there while watching tv, lay on her shoulder and read a book, hold her hand while we fall asleep, kiss her when I go to work, etc. I don't do these things because I think I have to do them to get laid...I do them because it just comes naturally. Sometimes I think she just gives in because she knows we haven't had sex in 2 months, and those sessions always suck. I don't enjoy it when she seems like she doesn't want to be there, and most of the time I'll stop because it just doesn't feel right. But when she truly wants me, I know how to tell, and it will be amazing. She will come 4-5 times if not more. I used to try to get her in the mood maybe twice a week, but have long since given up on that. I will only try maybe once every 6 weeks these days, and even then no matter how romantic I am, it doesn't seem to matter. She says its not an attraction issue, and its not my methods...she just doesn't want any sexual contact at all. It's not just sex that is missing either. She doesn't touch me at all. She doesn't hug me, smile at me, kiss me, take care of me in other ways, nothing. I feel as though I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do to be a good husband and friend to her, and getting nothing in return. I feel like she might view me as just a roommate at this point.

[WildChild]

I have consistently done these things for years. Rub her feet here and there while watching tv, lay on her shoulder and read a book, hold her hand while we fall asleep, kiss her when I go to work, etc. I don't do these things because I think I have to do them to get laid...I do them because it just comes naturally. Sometimes I think she just gives in because she knows we haven't had sex in 2 months, and those sessions always suck. I don't enjoy it when she seems like she doesn't want to be there, and most of the time I'll stop because it just doesn't feel right. But when she truly wants me, I know how to tell, and it will be amazing. She will come 4-5 times if not more. I used to try to get her in the mood maybe twice a week, but have long since given up on that. I will only try maybe once every 6 weeks these days, and even then no matter how romantic I am, it doesn't seem to matter. She says its not an attraction issue, and its not my methods...she just doesn't want any sexual contact at all. It's not just sex that is missing either. She doesn't touch me at all. She doesn't hug me, smile at me, kiss me, take care of me in other ways, nothing. I feel as though I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do to be a good husband and friend to her, and getting nothing in return. I feel like she might view me as just a roommate at this point.

Well your your time together may have run its course. Not all relationships are for a lifetime. I think it takes a very special connection to have that. We connect, grow, learn and then its time to move on.

[oxy-moron]

I suspect that you are equating sex time with her with intimacy time.
She is not an intimate person and you are- when you have sex you feel that you are getting that intimacy time.
Relationship wise you are a fuser and she is an isolator. Often the two will be paired together because the partner matches the family dynamic that made them that way to start with.
I managed to work things so that sex increased- however Intimacy only slightly improved.

I think that being an intimate person makes someone more likely to want sex-
And being non intimate makes them want to avoid it.(New relationships aside)

I dont know how you can improve on the intimacy side- if you find out let me know- often it is a protection mechanism for the person and they will guard their isolation heavily.

Good luck.

[Awoman2]

I don't think anyone, male or female, should have to live in an unhappy marriage. I totally agree with you, TM, that you could die at 45 if you continue under these circumstances. Both women and men suffer from stress in a marriage. So I'm not going to make excuses for your wife just because I'm a woman.

I think if you really want to make your marriage work, and it would appear so if you went this far, you need to talk to your wife, try to get her to open up about her problems, get some counselling, maybe just someone she's comfortable enough with to talk. The only way you'll get anywhere is if she actually shows some willingness to address the issues affecting your marriage. If there is no willingness, then there is no hope.

If I thought I'd given it my best and she wasn't willing to meet me halfway, then I certainly would not be spending the rest of my days in a miserable marriage.