[TroubledMan]

I doubt many of you remember me, as my issues last year were far from uncommon. You can search my past posts if you need a refresher.

Short of the long is that things haven't really improved in the bedroom, and I'm beginning to lose hope. Sex is once a month at best, and that just isn't enough for me. I drop hints here and there, or suggest a flirty game for us to play to try to get her in that mindset. We're coming up on 9 years now (we're 27) and have fallen into this routine of work, dinner, netflix/web/distraction. Very little conversation happens anymore, and if it does it has to do with said distractions.
Occasionally, I'll ask her if she wants to go play upstairs to see if a spontaneous invitation will get any juices flowing. She will say no without making eye contact, and continue stumbling through the internet. I take care of myself quite often these days, and I'm afraid of permanent desensitizing to her touch and feel. I rarely sleep upstairs anymore because I find it hard to keep from touching her. I just want her so bad.

Known issues:

Image: she has fairly poor self-image despite the number of pictures she takes of herself. She has a gorgeous face and amazing breasts. She has gained some weight in her mid section, but still maintains an hour glass figure. She calls it her pouch, to which I never know how to respond.

Stress: She works in a stressful environment and gets almost no respect even though she has seniority over most of her co-workers. This manifests at home by frequent naps, sleep loss, and sour mood in general. I do my best to listen and reinforce her confidence that it isn't her problem, but their jealousy of her. Sometimes I have bad days too and get snippy with her. She's been trying to find another job for the last year, but as you know, the economy isn't want it used to be.

money: we live basically check to check due to old medical bills and student loans, so we can't get all the nice things we want. She does a great job for us couponing, and getting free samples left and right, but times are still tough. I cook almost every night and have become quite good at it. I get the sense that she doesn't appreciate this skillset anymore because of its frequency.

The one thing that really stands out is her reaction when I try to seduce her. I will start with a soft touch, or sweep her hair behind her ear. I'll slowly move my hand up her leg...and then she goes NO! And it's over. The only trauma she has had in her life that I'm aware of is an abortion when we were teens. I know this is still an issue because she doesn't want to talk about it when I ask her to tell me her feelings about it.

Sometimes she'll ask to join me in the shower, get my motor goin...and then say she wants to get out.

I really need some help here before I decide to serve her with some papers. I can't keep going like this for the rest of my life or I'm going to die at age 45.

[Ashlee T.]

This is a very sad, but quite common (as you said) situation. And not just for men but for women as well. You can find another thread "revamped wife" on here of someone else who posted here about his lack of sex life......and is now posting about his sex life being TOO active. Sometimes it seems that two people have a hard time finding a happy medium.

It's great that you're in tune with what's going on with her....but look a little deeper. I'm sure we asked you last time, is she on hormonal birth control? This is always my first question because it absolutely DESTROYED my libido while I was on it. In addition to that, I had very low energy, emotional rollercoasters, fatigue, etc. If she's not on the pill, what kind of birth control measures do you take to help prevent pregnancy?

[TroubledMan]

She has not been on BC for about a year now. I wear condoms, and pull out. I think she just had this fairytale life in mind when we got married and I don't make enough to support us without her working. It saddens me when she complains about work and our house (we rent) and the lack of things to do. The truth is, there is plenty to do, but each thing I suggest gets dismissed just as fast with no feedback as to what she had in mind. We're lucky compared to most people in our area. We have jobs, enough money to feed ourselves and our pets. I wish she could see it that way, but she's always painting herself as a victim even though in reality she has it pretty good.

[Ashlee T.]

She has not been on BC for about a year now. I wear condoms, and pull out.

That's good. So you can rule out hormonal issues caused by BC. That doesn't mean there are no hormonal issues, it just means none caused by BC.

Some women want sex every day. Some only truly want it every couple weeks. The time in which we seem to want it the most, is when we are the most fertile. There are months I can go days and not even think about it. Then there are months when I can't go a day without it on my mind. It's all hormonally based for me. For guys, there is no hormonal "cycle", so you're rip roarin ready anytime. That's just not the case with most of us.

I know you're probably tired of hearing it, but it sounds like the issues with your marriage aren't just sexual ones. You feel like your attempts of affection are rejected. She feels like your attempts of affection are 100% sexual. What kinds of things does your wife enjoy in life?

[WildChild]

Did the two of you discuss finances and life style before you married? Very few households have the choice these days not to have two incomes. What did she think she was going to be doing married? Watching soaps, digging dandelions and getting massages all day? Surely she knew what you earned?

You are 27 and have been together for 9 years, have either of you had any other relationships?
How is your communication? You seem to be making assumptions but have you actually talked, specifically about all this?
Have you sat down together and created a budget? Discussed what your goals are? If buying a house is a goal what will it take to make that happen?
Did the two of you learn about sex together? Maybe you both need some real education on ways to create more intimacy?

[pretzel]

I think I disagree on your presumption that she wanted a fairy tale life, that may be an overstatement if that's the way I'm reading it.

What I do seem to read is someone (actually both of you) in a rut with different ways of wanting to dig out of it. To preface, my views are coming from someone who's been there (still there).

I'd think there is to some degree a carryover from her stresses at work which are coming home with her. Male or female, this is becoming one of the biggest problems many couples face no matter how long they've been together. One of the hardest things to do is separate professional from personal lives. If she dreads going to work in the morning, her day is already off to a bad start and anything that happens there just makes it worse. She leaves in a bad mood and comes home the same. That's two thirds of her waking day she wishes would be different.

Coming home in a bad mood and let's do the same thing we always do,dinner/tv/movie, get ready for bed. Lather, rinse, repeat because since money's tight, alternatives are few. At the end of the nite, she's tired, dreading waking up to go back to the same job that she doesn't want to go to in the first place and there your are wanting to have sex (or as you put it, intimacy).

She's depressed, but not necessarily in the clinical sense. She's frustrated and she's carrying that frustration home. Changing it though is a totally different story. Part of it she needs to do, part of it you can do. If she can learn to leave her job there and not bring it home that would be a good start for her. For you, try to find things that the two of you can do together for a little bit after work. A nice walk or have a drink outside for a half an hour. Something to allow her to let off steam (or you to do the same) and just to get her to focus on the two of you.

It's not easy and it's a slow process. It took a while for this to get this bad and it could easily take as long to repair so be patient and let any step forward be just that, a step forward.

[TroubledMan]

Did the two of you discuss finances and life style before you married? Very few households have the choice these days not to have two incomes. What did she think she was going to be doing married? Watching soaps, digging dandelions and getting massages all day? Surely she knew what you earned?

Neither of us had much in the way of parenting growing up. Both sets of parents had their own issues with their respective spouses. My dad was overseas for most of the year, and my mom is a workaholic lawyer. I spent most of my time alone finding ways to entertain myself. My father in law felt bad that he couldn't be around my wife when she was growing up, so he spoiled her on weekends. I wouldn't say she just wanted to be pampered for her entire life, but I think getting married in her mind was supposed to change things somehow. We'd already been together for 7 years before marrying, so she knew how it was going to be. We discuss finances 2-3 times per month, and we keep much better track than we did as teens/early 20s. I'm making twice as much as I was back then, and almost all of our debt is now paid off. She is making about 25% more as well. But...her attitude hasn't changed at all.

You are 27 and have been together for 9 years, have either of you had any other relationships?

I had several relationships in high school, only one mildly serious. She was my first and only sexual partner though. She had several relationships as well, and was sexually involved with 2 of them. From what she's told me though, they were not good experiences. One forced her, and the other was emotionally and sometimes physically abusive.

How is your communication? You seem to be making assumptions but have you actually talked, specifically about all this?

Our communication has been deteriorating recently, which is why I've come back to these boards. We're still able to read each other's minds for the most part, but talking about serious issues has been frustrating. I will say we can't go do something because we can't afford it, and that seems to deflate her every time. She does an amazing job finding deals and bargains...but convincing her that bargains still cost money has been another point of contention. She inherits this trait from her mom, whose house is BRIMMING will useless . There are trinkets all over the place that have $0 value. It's just stuff filling up a void. My mom is remodeling her bathroom, and asked me to come demo it to save her money on those costs. She is paying me 1/4 of what the contractors had quoted her, which is really nice of her to do. I don't tell her we struggle month to month, but I think she can sense it. My wife however makes me feel guilty about spending my weekends at my mom's instead of with her...but we don't really do anything except chores and sit around trolling the web on different computers. It's as if she wants me there as a presence, but that's it.
I've attempted to cover these issues with her, but she is not interested in discussing anything uncomfortable, and will just provide extremely cynical responses. "You're right, whatever. It's all my fault, yep!" So then I give up for another 2 months.

Have you sat down together and created a budget? Discussed what your goals are? If buying a house is a goal what will it take to make that happen?
Did the two of you learn about sex together? Maybe you both need some real education on ways to create more intimacy?

We create a budget less often than we should. We did one 2 months ago, but didn't really stick to it. I think we both struggle understanding accumulating costs of food, gas, etc. We used to overdraw our account every so often, but that hasn't happened in about a year now. So I feel like we're finally learning. We discuss our goals often, but my wife always shoots herself down with, "it will cost too much to finish school." To which I reply that it's the best investment you can make in yourself, and that we'll make it work whatever it takes. She's very close to finishing her degree but she's scared of the math classes. An issue we both have is fear of failure...so we don't even try. I'm critical of myself, but she is waaay too hard on herself in that aspect.
Buying a house is a distant dream, and I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a house right now unless you have a massive down payment and a low fixed rate. She was my first, and most of my sexual knowledge has come from trial and error with her in the early days of our relationship. We had sex sometimes 2-3 times a day and it was really intimate. I try to create intimacy these days, but she still thinks of sex as a chore and rejects me before even letting me try to seduce her.

[Claret]

And I bet that if you asked her what would make her happy, that she wouldn't be able to tell you. It would appear that there are many stressors in your lives that are contributing to this relationship in a negative manner. Sitting in front of a TV, watching movies, working on the internet are also all ways of being non-social. You don't have to plug in to each others thoughts or have any conversation.

I agree with the others that think she is under pressure and depressed. I also will go out on a limb though and say there is very little under her control, very little that she can have a big, direct, and immediate impact upon except for your sex life. This could be about control and anger and she is manifesting these feeling here. It may not even have anything to do with you or your intimacy or lack thereof, just that it is something she can control (and this gives her a sense of power, even if fleeting and against you).

Does she have any friends that she interacts with on a daily or weekly or even monthly basis. Someone that has a positive impact on her or will raise her spirits? What did she like to do in her spare time. Focus your efforts not on sex being the ultimate outcome, but making her just feel good for a few hours at a time. What about saving up for a couples massage at a spa for an afternoon? Relaxing the body, mind and spirit may be what you both would benefit from.

[TroubledMan]

And I bet that if you asked her what would make her happy, that she wouldn't be able to tell you. It would appear that there are many stressors in your lives that are contributing to this relationship in a negative manner. Sitting in front of a TV, watching movies, working on the internet are also all ways of being non-social. You don't have to plug in to each others thoughts or have any conversation.

I agree with the others that think she is under pressure and depressed. I also will go out on a limb though and say there is very little under her control, very little that she can have a big, direct, and immediate impact upon except for your sex life. This could be about control and anger and she is manifesting these feeling here. It may not even have anything to do with you or your intimacy or lack thereof, just that it is something she can control (and this gives her a sense of power, even if fleeting and against you).

Does she have any friends that she interacts with on a daily or weekly or even monthly basis. Someone that has a positive impact on her or will raise her spirits? What did she like to do in her spare time. Focus your efforts not on sex being the ultimate outcome, but making her just feel good for a few hours at a time. What about saving up for a couples massage at a spa for an afternoon? Relaxing the body, mind and spirit may be what you both would benefit from.

Here's the thing...life is tough for nearly everyone, but people get by just fine appreciating what and who they have. I don't just want sex out of this deal...I want to play and flirt and laugh. Sex, when both people are there in the moment, is the best stress reliever I know of. I give her deep massages often, because she has to stand all day and her back hurts. I don't ask for anything in return, and I don't guilt her for that. At some point though, I need to be a little selfish. Her sexual needs (or lack thereof) are being met 100%, and mine are at 0%. Even a small compromise would make a world of difference. She says it's not an attraction issue, but goes no further than that in her explanation.
As for the control issue...there is very little she does not control in our lives. I always ask what she wants for dinner, and if she doesn't know I will make suggestions. Eventually that one just goes to, "whatever you want, I don't care." If she wants to go to the mall, we go. She enjoys walking around there and looking at new styles and trends. I understand that, so I go along with it even though I hate the mall. We drove to Florida on a whim over memorial day because she really wanted a vacation. So I made it work with a couple days off from work, drove the entire way both ways. (she doesn't drive stick) It was a nice vacation though and helped relax us both. There are countless other examples of her dictating what we do and where we go, and I go along with it every time as long as it's reasonable. But I get guilted when I want to go sailing with my dad. Her friends don't really call her unless they need advice or help with something. She is a person they can depend on for that stuff...but in general they're wrapped up in their own lives and families. I know it's hard to describe a 9 year relationship in this little box, and I'm probably stating a lot of this stuff emotionally. I don't know what else to do.

[oxy-moron]

You could try what worked for me but you will have to ask yourself what you would do if your wife started wanting sex more often than you do?

A good first step is to get a book called cupids poison arrow-or go to its website -reuniting. This will give you the background on why things start with a burst of flame and fizzle out over time.

Ultimately what you need to do is to boost the level of non sexual touch going on.
Touch her casually on the back when you are walking past. walk up to her from behind when she is seated then steal a kiss on her ear and walk away-not waiting around for a result- massage her feet. Take Clarets suggestion for a massage SPA but you provide the massage(non sexual) in your own home. Compliment her regularly.

You will be doing the type things you did in the early part of the relationship that you did without thinking- but stopped doing over the years.
This type of behaviour will have to go on for weeks so that you build her Oxytocin levels to the point where she will be thinking of sex.
This does take work but you will get other benefits yourself. When the sex does pick up - dont make it about seeking orgasms but about getting more bonded.

Do some of your own research about Oxytocin on Google-
It is high in the early part of a relationship- I think that having high levels of it makes women more interested in Sex and it makes men into better communicators both with word and their eyes. Once it is working you will start making better eye contact with her ( and possibly with women in general) and she will have more interest in sex with you( but may be more interested in men in general as well)

Give it a try- start slowly.