[DreamP346]

JonDoe, you need to talk to your wife before you get into bed about sexual issues. Sometimes inability to get it up can be organic, but a very large percent of the time, its emotional/mental. As you age, this will also become pretty normal - you won't be able to get it up as often and as quickly. Also you WILL require some type of stimulation to get it up. So here are the things you need to talk to her about:

1) normal aging. Her sex drive might be increasing, while yours is declining. Men have a natural decline in testosterone starting at age 40. You will notice its harding to get an erection and you WILL need some stimulation. Also, there may be times when you just don't get it up, so you both should be prepared to enjoy other aspects of sex in those cases.
2) Her involvment in getting you off. She can't just lie back and expect you to do all the work. Sex in a two way street. Its a partnership and if she cares, she should be concerned about your sexual satisfaction as well.
3) Respecting each other in the bedroom. Getting frustrated and demanding that you help yourself to get an erection is demeaning and disrespectful. Like I mentioned before, stand-up for yourself. Don't let her be disrespectful to you.

It seems like you are working in the sex department, but it really is a relationship issue. As you can see yourself, even if your wife is willing to engage in sex, she still is disrespectful and only concerned about her own pleasure. Also, the sweet things you did are nice, but you shouldn't have to do all that all the time. Also, since she is the one who has been uncooperative all this time, I don't think you need to be going the extra mile. You really need to DEMAND that she be an equal partner in this relationship. When was the last time she sent you off to have a boys night out or something special like that? The more you work to please her in hopes that she will be nicer to you, the less likely it will work. I'm not saying don't be nice to her. I'm saying that you need to work on the relationship. It will take time and obviously you two talking is a step in the right direction. But pampering her to get sex is just a band-aid solution. So TALK, TALK, TALK TO HER.

[JonDoe]

Really, has this always been a problem -- What was your relationship like just after you were married? What was your relationship like before you had children?

We had sex on our first date, at her invitation. When we were dating, we had sex most times we spent time together, which was a few times a week. After we were engaged and moved in together, we had sex once or twice a month. She suddenly became full of excuses. We both worked hard and played hard too, but I considered calling it off based on my gut feeling that we might never be sexually compatible.

When we were trying to get pregnant, she was like "Wow! This is fun, we should do it more often!" From the time she learned of being pregnant with each child until about 6 months after delivery, we had no sex. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Getting blue balls, just thinking about it. She stopped working outside the home after our first child, and I continued to work 50+ hours with a long daily commute. Eventually, our routine, went back to once or twice a month for many years, until about 5-6 years ago. Then it dropped down to about 4 times a year, and the sex wasn't very good during this time either.

I have often joked, that the planets must be in alignment for us to have sex. Dinner, drinks, presents, etc. Acts of kindness as she calls it. I totally get that women want to feel special, and I also admit that I am guilty of forgetting this at times, even withholding due to rejection and resentment, but it wasn't always like this. However, a routine of sex only after specific acts of kindness are received is also habit forming. She equated this as a pre-requisite, I became like Pavlovs dogs, go to dinner, want sex, even if dinner was a fast-food via drive through or delivery. (OK, not quite that bad, but you get the idea.) Another problem with going for a nice dinner before sex is that she might over-indulge, which meant he ain't getting none cause she feels bloated. On occasion, this is totally understandable, but after a while, a long while, this is cruel and unusual punishment. I think I'd stand in line for a semi-annual water boarding before having to routinely be subjected to rejection from the one you love.

I openly admit somewhere along the way, I stopped pursuing her, and allowed rejection to become my Kryptonite, but this was many years after marriage and kids. In recent years, work became unfulfulling and I became less productive. I started living to get through each day with minimum confrontation. We were already sleeping in separate rooms, and not having sex, so I started spending most of my time in another part of the house, not unlike roommates.

You asked about our relationship, and I have mostly focused on the sex. Communication has been a long standing issue, but not until after we became parents. She was definitely resentful that she was home all day with the kids, an option we both decided together, with her vote counting slightly more. Somewhere along the way, after kids, th frequency of going to dinner, happy hour, and parties slowed considerably. Her Mom died when she was young and her Dad was older, and my parents were not involved with the grandkids, so we never got away alone, just the two of us. Friends offered, but we never took them up on the offer, since they had more kids, and lead busy lives too. In hindsight, a perfect recipie for a failed marriage, one that we both want to restore.

[JonDoe]

JonDoe, it really seems like your issue if a marriage problem, not a sex problem. Based on what you have told us, there are just so many issues going on.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? She comes first, so I guess that would be the egg.

Seriously, the sex issue came first, which has obviously lead to relationship issues, but in the long term, we are both to blame. I guess for some it's like winding a rubberband and letting go, it can only unwind in reverse. However, I think it is more about give and take. If we each give a little more each week, we will end up in the middle so much easier and faster. I am ready to stomp on the gas, put the pedal to the metal in either direction, but I know if I accelerate too fast she will be uneasy. Although, I am not willing to stay on this road too long, it either get's significantly better, or we separate.

She never like me talking about work, so for the most part I no longer do; however, she can go on an on about work. After work today, she went to dinner with her brother. When she came home, we talked (she talked, I mostly listened) for about 45 minutes, a little about her brother and the rest about her day at work. Not once did she ask about my day. Similar scenario when we went to happy hour on Friday. She is in a "me focused" bubble. "This is what I like. That does nothing for me. What have you done for me lately?"

She has always been a person focused on lists. Anything on the list by default has higher priority than things that are not on the list. Sex is not on the list, buying wine and coffee are. Walking the dogs is not on a written list, but it is on a mental list. For the longest time, she insisted the dogs needed to be walked twice a day for 30-60 each time. Working from home, I routinely walked the dogs once everyday. The second walk was seemed an obvious choice to cut back and apply that time to our marriage.

[JonDoe]

Walked in on my wife masturbating again. For someone that has always maintained that she never masturbates, then after the first time I walked in on her the story changes to once every 6 to 8 months, and now this makes what 3 times in as many weeks, maybe more, especially since I can't believe suddenly my timing is perfect and I am walking in 100% of the time after so many years of marriage. Again, I have no issues with it if she was helping take care of my needs too. Instead, we are both taking care of her, and I am left to take care of me.

She said she is working on getting her libido back. Back to what level? She had sex at least 4 times in 6 days - either masturbated alone, received oral sex or manual stimulation from me. I'm impressed with her new libido, truly I am, but this is almost exclusive of me being on the receiving end. Her contribution has been to buy sexy underwear, and wear stockings that I bought her a few years ago. Kudos. Good start.

How many ways can you express your feelings, needs and desires to your partner before she gets a clue? How can your partner possibly show so little interest in truly pleasing her man? Is there hope for a woman that lives in a "me-centered" world in which she interpret everything that happens in terms of "What is its impact on me?"

[Arien]

TIme for desperate measures

Is there hope for a woman that lives in a "me-centered" world in which she interpret everything that happens in terms of "What is its impact on me?"

Yes. If you are ready to take action then you need to make it clear to her - in no uncertain terms - that the impact on HER life will be YOUR absence.

One option is to pack a bag and spend a week or two away from home, whether in a hotel or at a friend/family member's house. Let her experience life without you. So far nothing you've done has worked. Pampering her reinforces her idea that Everything is about her, and when you threatened to leave her, it sounds like she didn't really take you seriously, because she knows YOU don't really want to leave. It's a big risk; she may decide that life without you is unbearable, but she may also think it is fine. But at least then you will know where you stand with her. Your children are important, but this problem with your wife has started to affect your physical and mental well-being. Make sure your children know that none of this is their fault, and that you still love them, but that you need a little time away. And make sure your wife understands that you really are serious about this. Either she puts in a little effort, even if its just going to see a therapist on her own or with you, or you walk... no more threats, just action. It has to be real, or she will just continue to see how far she can push. If she lives in a world where its "all about her", then make your leaving "all about her" as well.

If you're not sure that you're ready to take this drastic a step, then maybe a little reverse psychology will work. Set up an evening like one of the ones you described before, and when she gets in the mood, walk away. Let her feel the way you feel when she gives up on you.

Both of these options may seem a little harsh, but desperate times and all that...
It just depends on whether or not you are really ready to take more direct action. Either option here requires total commitment on your part. If you give up and go back part way through, then it just gives her even more power, so if you aren't absolutely sure you're ready, then don't attempt either of these tactics.

I hope you find something that helps you on here. Good luck.

[Claret]

Not certain if actually packing a bag and leaving for a week or two is a good idea. It could backfire in a court-of-law if and when a divorce reared it's ugly head. It's called separation and is looked upon as a reason for divorce (abandonment). A better course of action, especially since he wants to stay with his wife, would be to move full-time into the second bedroom, spend time going out (on his own), eat meals out, go to movies etc and let her decide on her own what she really wants. You can sometimes have more impact without actually threatening something you may or may not actually do. He'd then have his answer as to the future direction of his life and could act accordingly without being put in jeopardy for custody, support or alimony.

[JonDoe]

Had several longs talks with my wife recently. She reluctantly admitted that not allowing me to join in after I walked in on her masturbating, and then finishing her solo act after I left the room was selfish. Wow! Now that is a small step forward! However, that hasn't stopped her from repeating the sequence several times since. Is it possible that she doesn't want me to ask to join? Does she just want me to take her right at that moment? Her body language and tone of voice said otherwise, loud and clear.

Last night I pushed further on the topic of feeling not only rejected, but also neglected. I started off by complimenting her on various things that I was apprecitative of. However, as the conversation advanced to the real problem at hand, she became very defensive, argumentative and tried to point blame at me. At no point did she acknowledge my feelings, show sympathy, compassion, or apologize. When I brought up the topic of oral sex and manual stimulation, she simply said "It doesn't do anything thing for me". Bingo! That is my point. She loves receiving, but couldn't care less about returning the favor. Ever. Even when I kindly request it. If that isn't a textbook example of selfish behavior, I don't know a ******** thing.

When I asked her how she would feel if I started licking her **********, then suddenly stopped, got up and said "You finish, I'm going to watch TV", she said "Why would you ever do that!" Again, my point exactly. Why would anyone ever do that?

As it became clear we were getting nowhere, I finished the conversation by asking her why it has to be so difficult. "Why is it that I enjoy pleasing you, but I don't feel as if you enjoy pleasing me?" There would be no answer, only more tactics to get off topic. It ended in a very similar way, she says she is too tired or busy to talk, regardless of the time of day or day of the week. Then she says she will think about it. A few days go by, nothing from her, then when I ask if she thought about our conversation the other day, she will say "I can't remember what I did yesterday!" Maybe I should record our next conversation. However, I have noticed a common theme, when she doesn't want to answer a question, she is good at providing a non-answer as a response.

She will tell me she is exhausted, then goes to bed and reads for an hour and masturbates. Occasionally she go out with friends until 1 or 2 am, but she is too tired to talk about matters of the heart and our sex life. ********, I'm fine with that! As Nike says, "Just do it!", then we don't need to discuss anything. Actions speak louder than words.

I've told her several times, we either move forward together or move forward apart, but I will not continue to live life the same again. Her birthday is in 3 months, if we haven't made significant progress by then, I'm moving on.

[JonDoe]

There is hope after all

We talked and talked until we couldn't talk anymore? I kept pursuing what I wanted, what we needed and deserved, and reminding her along the way, that we either break the cycle or we both take a different path forward because I am not going back, ever. And just when I was reaching a breaking point, losing hope, I suddenly got through to her. I broke the chain that has been holding us back for so many years, and it has been glorious! I feel alive again, and we have only just begun.

She thanked me for being an unselfish lover, and for remaining faithful when it would have been easier to cheat or leave. She has opened up in the bedroom, willingly trying new things. She is taking an active part in sex, even feeling comfortable to masturbate in front of me today, which she agreed was hot! We laughed about guessing which one of us will have to keep up with the other. I told her it would be hot if she read me a passage from 50 Shades that really turned her on, and she enthusiastically agreed to do so very soon. So many wonderful possibilities.

I want to thank every one that has taken the time to read my long posts and offered suggestions and words of encouragement. I am genuinely greatful!

[jns]

I hope this continues to be how things go in the future. Keep us updated.