[effy2014]

I found your post to be an incredibly fascinating read, but, at times, I had no idea what point you were making. If you don't mind, I have some particular comments:

She had to tell you what she liked. And when you do it, she gets the feeling you didn't have the initiative to do those things before, you had to ask, and that you're only doing them to get your reward, not because you actually enjoy giving her pleasure. When you had your chance to see she wasn't getting her part of the sex deal and do something about it, you didn't bother doing those things for her. You're all interested now, because you suffer the consequences of her lack of interest. You aren't doing anything for her. You're doing it for yourself.

This smacks of withholding sex as a punishment than positive relationship building. Communication is at the heart of relationships. If a partner isn't getting what s/he wants, then communicate about it so change can occur. It seems childish not to accept positive change because "I had to ask". As you write later on, we all act in our own interest AND (I would posit) in the interests of furthering the happiness of the partnership. There always needs to be a path to redemption. Your partner is not a child who needs a time out from sex because he had to be told what you need.



Mismatched sex drive is many times due to something very simple: people want to feel as if there was something magnanimous about giving pleasure.

clitoris play is often done in manners that make the woman feel as if that was some extra she might get, or not. . . Many men do it as if they were doing a favor, or they make the woman feel as if it was a favor.

I agree that too many men believe that there is a distinction between sex acts . . . that there is something designated as foreplay and then there is the main event. All of it, from the first kiss to the last lick is part of an integrated "sex session" as it were. Both partners trying to please each other and be pleased, regardless of whether intercourse occurs or not -- frankly, whether both orgasm or not.

But here is where you lose me:

There is intercourse, for instance, and the clitoris play is something that may happen, time and energy allowing, etc. It isn't granted. It is some added value, an accessory to the main thing **************** Intercourse. It's so good. I love it. I crave it. But I won't orgasms purely from it. I need something going on on my clitoris to achieve that. And I'm not trying to reproduce. So, why should intercourse, for instance, be the main part of sex for me, and clitoris stimulation be something that it is added, or not, depending on position, or something.

I find it quite telling some men are proud to say their women come first, so, they give them plenty of oral at the beginning, then proceeding to intercourse, or something. That and the thing that after a man orgasms, he's often off it for a while.

But why are men thinking that women, after they orgasm from their male partners efforts on the preliminaries, are still in the mood for the rest of what sex is going to be? Guys are off it after orgasm... women are supposed to be on it after they orgasm? I don't see the logic. Why would that be? Because it is convenient for the man?

My point: if you want to keep your woman interested on having sex, thinking that it is worth the bother, don't isolate her orgasm and the things that make her have an O from the core of a sex session. It isn't really something to be proud of to give her an orgasm at the beginning, then move on to other sex stuff, expecting her to be still in the mood after an O. Instead, move together. A sex session should be all about both of you, the whole of it.

I don't understand this at all. Men should make clitoris play a focus (rather than intercourse) because it gets a woman to orgasm. Yet, don't focus on it first and get a woman to orgasm and then expect her to be involved in whatever happens next. My SO loves cunnilingus almost as much as I lover performing. Though there are several positions we can do, the most pleasurable for her is when I am between her legs. Am I supposed to stop before she orgasms? After she stings one or two or three orgasms together, should we be done? That would seem to violate you thesis that we are all in this for our own pleasure.

It is hard for oral of any type, if performed well, not to be disconnected. I hate 69 positions because it is hard to focus on giving when receiving. Also, if you crave intercourse (my SO does regardless of whether she orgasms because she loves the feeling of my being inside of her), why is it wrong to add clitoral stimulation? What is the other great stuff that we are missing?

Personally, it seems to me that there is a physiologic reason for a man to cum last. As an example, my SO is rarely wiped out from orgasming . . . she usually wants another. I concede that at my age, it's one time per session and it gets me sleepy. Is it really wrong for me to make sure that she has been pleasured to the extent she wants before that happens?

In any event, I agree that no one should be self sacrificing in bed. If there is a goal, it should be mutual pleasure and deepening the emotional,connection. To me, this calls for communication in and out of the bedroom. Partners need to know what works and what doesn't. How our individual needs get met should not be a secret but openly discussed. It also requires an understanding that shutting down intimacy will significantly damage a relationship.

[raindancer]

I'm on my phone, so, excuse me if I don't answer all the questions. I can come back tomorrow with the computer to see if I forgot to answer something. This post is long. I apologize and remind you, guys, that nobody is forced to read. You're free to ignore it.

The thing about not having sex: it isn't like punishing the other in a childish way. It is just a loss of interest. Sex is disappointing for sometime. One of the partners gradually loses interest. As in why bother? As in one can't be bothered to go through the moves, end up having to clean somebody's sperm from one's body, for no good enough reason.

I'd like to say I'm really not trying to offend anyone. I'm trying to offer a keyhole view on things that are talked between women, stuff that perhaps men should know. Do all women think like this? Of course not. I was careful in my post to point out I wasn't talking about all women. How could I?

For the stimulation and rushing of the "women first" movement, I'd like to try to explain my point with an example.

I know a good handjob will make men come (please, never think I'm talking about all men/women: I'm talking some/many/most, but never all). So, since I want to guarantee my man orgasms, I'll start sex, every single time, with a great handjob, to make sure he orgasms.

I have the best intention. I want to make sure he comes. But how boring would that be for him! After I've done my dutiful handjob, I'd go on to have the most fantastic sex... for me. But how much of it would he enjoy after he had orgasmed from my handjob?

And how would that make him feel, year after year? He loves that handjob, but with time, perhaps hell end up having it. Because of what it represents. It's his partner taking the easy/shortcut path.

There are women/men who can have multiple orgasms, who'll have very long sex sessions, orgasming again and again. But how representative of the general population is that? I've had a partner who could have sex the whole day. He, and I, would have orgasm after orgasm. How representative is this sex god from the general male population? Are women with multiple orgasms really the majority of us?

Talking within couples is paramount. However, let's put things into perspective. Another example.

During a long time, sex wasn't good enough to keep one of the partners interested, say A. It's nobody's fault. But it was so. Partner A lost interest. He/she isn't punishing anyone. A just can't find a reason to go through the moves. It's more of a burden, than a pleasure. Partner B keeps trying. With time, the insisting of B will really annoy A. Another reason sex will just bring bad feelings to A.

After a lot of pestering from B, frustration for both, B decides to talk about it. B finally asks the question: what do you want? I'll do it for you, just tell me what it is you want.

A doesn't want anything, actually. A just doesn't want to talk about sex anymore. I mean, A wants something: to be done with it. For A, it's been dead for quite some time. But B pushes on. Then A says he/she liked this or that kind of stimulation. A isn't saying that because A still wants to do it. A is answering a question about something that could have worked a couple of years ago, after much pushing from B. A isn't actually asking for it to be done.

Then, with the new information, B goes to work on it. But A has lost interest. A can't be bothered. A's memory of sex isn't really something more exciting than taking a nap, reading a good book, chatting on the phone with friends.

I'm not saying there's one right and one wrong. It just happened. It's sad, but so it is for many couples. Many, not all, of course.

I don't have this problem. About two hours ago, I've given my man a prolific moaning, groaning orgasm. He gave me a screaming orgasm that woke up the neighbors. But why can't people with good sex lives look beyond and have compassion for those without? Your woman has multiples? She orgasms from anal alone, no clit touching? Fantastic! Come join us and let's do it all together. But must we be blind to the fact so many women have difficulties to orgasm? About one third of women don't orgasm at all. Are we going to talk about the exceptions in this thread, where people with issues are posting?

Now, about the new paradigm. Stimulate her with different things she likes, all throughout a sex session. It can start with manual/oral, but not to completion. Intercourse interspersed with oral and manual stimulation. Tongue tours during sessions, as opposed to massages only at the beginning. Use of other stimulation media during: feathers on clit, breast and back, for instance. The use of toys, not as in always, but sometimes, and never exclusively. The use of cold and hot stimulation. The use of pressure of one's warm hands, or cold hands (after touching something icy) on different parts of the body. Audio stimulation, by means of saying things, complimenting, moaning.

Clits can be held, as opposed to being rubbed. Penetration while one's holding clit firmly can be terribly arousing for a woman. Humping different body parts.

Vibration from silently humming close to clit, ears, neck, nape. A hand where one can rub, when one stretches to reach. Oily hands grabbing thighs firmly, thumbs tantalizing clit in the meanwhile, during penetration from behind (anal, or not). Water play (I mean water, no pee) given by a partner, while the other hand plays with breast, in bath.

Sensorial play, where one sense is isolated for stimulation. Mental play.

I don't want to offend anyone. I'm sure I'm preaching to priests. Besides, I'm good at stimulating men, not women, as I'm hetero. I've just listed things I like done to me, not claimed other women will like the same.

Anything that doesn't make a woman feel as if he was ticking a box as fast as possible, so that it is his turn.

A last word, this one about the vicious circle. It is very difficult to fix something. It's better not to break it in the first place. But it's done. How to change things? Next time you do have sex, surprise her. Not with something for you, and not with something she's told you she liked. You have to come up with something creative, all about her, something good. Something that will make her want more. Make her curious for more. It is starting something new, not repeating something old. Totally new.

Sometimes creating a new space and doing things right is better than trying to debug. The routine is bugged. Ignore it and, instead of debugging, write a new routine.

I'd advice against trying to guilt trip her with stuff like "every time you ignore my advances, it makes me feel you don't care for what is important to me." It could back fire, if she'd say something like "every time you push for sex, knowing I don't want it, you're violating me." You don't want the situation to go this ugly direction. Both of you could end up saying hurtful things none of you really think.

Remember we don't know her and we don't know you. This is all general talk. If something is useful to you, good. If not, just ignore it.

Sorry for the long post. It's because I care. I wish everybody had a fantastic sex life.

[effy2014]

Raindancer,

I am impressed with your new paradigm. All of your suggestions are incredibly sensual . . . Some I've used (but not in that way) and some I have never thought about. It makes a lot of sense.

I take issue, however, with your example of A and B.

You write "During a long time, sex wasn't good enough to keep one of the partners interested, say A. It's nobody's fault. But it was so. Partner A lost interest. He/she isn't punishing anyone. A just can't find a reason to go through the moves. It's more of a burden, than a pleasure. Partner B keeps trying. With time, the insisting of B will really annoy A. Another reason sex will just bring bad feelings to A."

There is plenty of fault in your scenario. First, "A" should have communicated his/her issue at the first sign and "B" should have been perceptive enough to to see that "A" was losing interest.

Second, the notion that one party to the marriage "can't find a reason to go through with the moves" indicates the beginning if the end to the marriage. Asexual marriages aside, intimacy is one of the key components of a healthy marriage. Marriage takes work and someone who shuts down sexually out of boredom and does not provide a path to the resumption of intimacy is indeed punishing his or her spouse. I know plenty of marriages that have turned into roommate situations and the spouse in need of a sexual release generally finds it elsewhere. Is that what A wanted out of his or her marriage? Here is my truth -- if A truly loves B, he or she needs to find a way to rekindle the spark. If A thinks that a healthy sex life with his or her spouse is akin to being violated, A needs to be the one to file for divorce.

Third, "B" is at fault of neglect. Begging or whining for sex is clearly not the way. B needs to work hard to find the path for better intimacy. If A shoots down every plan . . . communication, therapy or your new sexual paradigm, then the two of them should seriously consider divorce or an open marriage.

B writes to us all of the time, as can be seen in this thread. Is the best advice to B that sex is over, live with it? It is indeed sad, but fixable if A and B are willing. If not, why play the charade of marriage?

[Lexhill]

There is a lot of god discussions here, and I find many things really interesting. As Effy2014 points out there are enough of B's that write all the time, and I am one of the B's. But I hope that most B's here really writes because they want to improve their situation for both part's, not just their own. If that's the case I think that's bad. I believe that in a good marriage both partners love to have sex with each other.

For my part I see a lot of valuable input. And of course I and the other B's have to try to read and listen to out partners. And believe me that's what I am trying to do. But the expression "Women is from Venus and Men from Mars" comes from somewhere. There are often easier for someone of the same sex to know what might be the problem. But that does not mean that everyone the same sex know or will guess what's right. But they might have valuable input to to help B. Then B have to try to figure out what's right in their situation.

For my own sake I might have gone into raindancers explanation. Because I am so eager to please my wife she almost always gets of first. Then it's "my turn"(usually intercourse) even thought I would be just as happy or not happier with a BJ more often, and this can be done before or after her orgasm. Since I am rarely the one ending the session, me being the foreplay would not be a problem. When it comes to me and hopefully a lot of the B's here, I hope they have tried to mix things up and find new ways to please their partner, I know I have. But then again my wife have never complained or shown any resentment or unhappiness with the technical part of sex. More about what I see from others view here the constant pestering/nagging about more sex than she want's. That's what I think might be the problem for me. She sees it as more of a job than pleasure.

Now my wife does not even wanna talk about sex, and gets annoyed with me wanting to, or even for that matter wanting to relieve tension. I can't even read news for here about sex without her getting annoyed. This is where I need suggestions/help, to find out how to turn this trend. For those of you that have a sex drive that want's it daily, you know how hard it is to go weeks and months without it. And taking matters into own hands is not very helpful in the long run.

As Effy2014 says B needs to work hard to find the path for better intimacy. This is where I know I am and maybe some other B's as well. And this is where I need help from someone the same gender as my wife. And that I might be helpful for Female B's to help find that path.

So will B's not nagging for sex and hide their sexual needs over time make A more interested? Or are there other tips or clues that anyone can give when A's not even willing to talk about sex?

And I remember someone talking about household chores. That's for me at least a prerequisite for a Gender Equality and a mutual sex drive.

[effy2014]

Like all important marital issues, communication is not only essential, I believe that it is required. A's (in this scenario, the partner who has lost interest in sex -- see posts 32 and 33) who refuse to communicate over this (or any important marital issue) are responsible for the consequences. Usually it means a very resentful partner and a very tenuous emotional connection. Now, in all fairness to A, communication is generally not B's strongest asset. Communication requires a safe environment without judgment, with a heart full of love and understanding and with a mindset of both partners willing to change behaviors under defined circumstances. Most couples do not have a clue how to communicate, and that is where couples therapy is most effective.

Many of the B's ask why the A's don't understand the importance of intimacy in a marriage. There are a plethora of possibilities including cultural background, upbringing, religion etc. I am sure many A's don't think the lack of intimacy [I]should[I] be an issue and think B's are just oversexed and need to chill. I would be very interested to hear from the A's on this issue.

In truth, most A's don't just lose interest. From the many posters here, there are usually marital causes for the lack of sex. Intimacy, or should I write lost intimacy, is usually a consequence of a failing marriage. There was an initial breakdown of trust, respect, empathy or compassion which resulted in the lack of interest. In my view, A's generally feel hopelessly unappreciated for their contributions to the marriage and therefore see sex as a duty rather than loving behavior.

[FeminaS]

As you love your man you should make him happy.

U can try let him suck your boobs and ride upon him. I had this problem at first. He was very unhappy.

Then i endure this technique. Actually my hubby is totally a breastman. He loves to suck my boobs, even always he wants it. He starts it with sucking my boobs. He do sucking, licking, messaging, kissing and biting my nipple. Sometimes he sucks both the nipples at a time. As I have very busty and bouncy breasts, so its not a problem. To tell the truth i got it by my hubby's love, my 32B boobs become 40D with his love within 5yrs.

I then ride upon him, he sits and bend my waist with his hand, I bend his neck and bury his head in my boobs. I push his **** in my vagina. he starts sucking my boobs. I ride on his **** madly. My boobs just bounces, he bites my nipple hardly and tightly. He doesn't loose his bite to my nipples. I become mad at this. The more hardly he bites my nipple

[FeminaS]

I love to breastfeed my husband

I love to breastfeed my hubby. He loves it and I want to make him happy. He is totally a breastman. I am breastfeeding him for 4.5yrs.

I love to see how he sucks and lick my boobs and nipples. It makes our love life secure and enjoyable. I sleep braless, so that he can get easy access to my boobs. He sleeps on my breasts, sucks, kisses, give message, lick and bite those. sometimes i put some honey, chocolate or sauce on my nipples. He cleans that with his tongue and sucks my boobs hardly, He bites my nipples hardly when I ride on him (actually i always ride on him i love this most), I enjoy it and it makes my liquid out. We get the relief high.

My hubby loves my bouncy breasts. Actually I have got 40D busty bouncy boobs. Those were only 32B when I met my dear hubby. He made them huge by his love. I don't want to stop breastfeeding my hubby, coj it makes our relation strong and deep. And moreover it makes me horny to him. He loves how gradually my breasts are increasing their size. He wants those to be more and more busty and me also want so, coj my dear hubby wants so. We love each other very much and breastfeeding supports us to love each other deeply. He does not get tired sucking my boobs and i also never been tired breastfeeding him. I call him MY LITTLE BABY. We have a child and we are a happy family.

I stopped breastfeeding him only for a few months while our baby born. But this badly effected our love life. He was not satisfied then. He doesn't want to loose his grip from my boobs.

I love to ride on him while sucking my boobs, and that happily end with a love making. It leaves with a mental and physical peace. He loves my boobs bouncing and hard nipples. So I usually stay braless at home. And his eyes keep watching my boobs bouncing. I enjoy much when his eyes become hungry seeing my bouncing boobs. My nipple changes their shape, become hard and longer when my greedy man looks at them.My boobs are his best food, energy booster and best entertainment. OH! of course its his confession.

Some women say that their bouncing boobs hurt during love making. I will suggest them to ask their hubby to bite hardly their nipples during love making. My hubby bites my two nipples together hard and tightly when i ride on him, so i dont need his hands support to boobs. My bouncing boobs get support of his teeth, those bounce rapidly but in front direction as my both the nipples are under my sweet hubby's teeth. He bend my waist with hands, message my back and bite my nipples with his sharp teeth. Its a great feelings, the pain is awesome. I ride on him madly. I push his head to my boobs, message his hair and neck and kiss his ear and forehead. We both love this, coj it picks us to the high of love and satisfaction. We both are highly satisfied max time.


Some women I heard that they are not passionate to love making. I will suggest them to try breastfeeding their husband. It will definitely work anywhere and anytime.

I am always very careful about my husband's need. So he loves me more and more. He says he is lucky to have me, but i say i am very very lucky to have him.

[Claret]

I think that what you are describing is more the normal than the exception.

[effy2014]

I think that what you are describing is more the normal than the exception.

To which post did your comment apply Claret? I'm not sure that Breastfeeding one's husband as Femina reports is all that popular. Nor are breasts growing from a 32B to a 40C. But I have lived a moderately sheltered life.

[Claret]

I was just speaking generally of breast play during sex by one's partner. It all seems pretty normal to me.

We don't know how old the poster was when she and her husband got together, but maturing and having children will grow breasts.

It also seems that she is not really "breastfeeding" as she states she stopped this sexual activity when her child was born.

So, in my mind, it all seems quite normal.