[rcoreyus]

The thing that has surprised me most from reading WH is (in general) how much more seriously women take porn than men do.

I wish I could think of an equivelent the other direction, but I can't. I can't think of anything that a significant number women do that men find terribly objectionable, but which causes no physical or financial harm. Can anyone else think of something in this category?

BTW: cheating doesn't count in this - there is a direct physical risk.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

The thing that has surprised me most from reading WH is (in general) how much more seriously women take porn than men do.

I wish I could think of an equivelent the other direction, but I can't. I can't think of anything that a significant number women do that men find terribly objectionable, but which causes no physical or financial harm. Can anyone else think of something in this category?

BTW: cheating doesn't count in this - there is a direct physical risk.

In a loving relationship come to think of it? Nup...

Is her looking at sites of penises only and sizes an objection to a man i wonder? And, he finds that out?

Probably, in a marriage if he wasn't into porn, he would object?

[kaylar]

One of the key features is that men don't take responsibility
for their actions. It's always 'her' fault. "She" made him
do it.

If he's cheating, oh, well, it must be that the wife isn't
giving him, or she's gone to seed, or whatever, it's her
fault that he went and jumped on a gal.

If she's had enough of his ****, she has a problem. She's
immature, insecure, can't deal with reality.

It is never his fault.

Of course, if she's looking good and doing well, it's
his 'influence'.

I'll be honest here, 99.9999% of the time I post here
I don't even read what a man has to say, save and
except if he's asking for help or clarification.

Most of the men who post here have their uninformed
opinions which are so off the mark, one assumes the
reason they are here is because this woman's site is
the only place they get to talk to women.

Why the woman in question wants to end her marriage to
the poster is very simple; she doesn't know him. Hence,
she is afraid that this revelation about his attraction
to porn is only one of the things she doesn't know.

Let us suppose one of the men here met a woman, married
her, and has lived with her for four years.

One day, as they are walking home from the shop a mugger
comes up. The wife instantly disables him. The police
come up and she's totally nonchalant as they the mugger
away.

The husband never knew the wife could fight and asks
where did you learn that? "Here and there," she says
off hand.

Now considering how fast the wife moved, how accurate
her martial art, and how calm she is about the whole
thing, he realises he doesn't know this woman.

He may keep asking her about it until she gets annoyed,
he may retreat into himself and wonder who she was,
where she was and what she was doing before he met her...
but most of all...how could he have lived with this woman
for four years, and never knew this?

[C]

Most of the men who post here have their uninformed
opinions which are so off the mark, one assumes the
reason they are here is because this woman's site is
the only place they get to talk to women.

Kay, I share your opinion on the above remark.....

This woman has been living with a stranger....It has to be devastating for her to have found this out....When I wrote my initial post I did not realize what Wilhelm brought out in a post....I suspected it was more than three times but a person likes to fool themself in their own mind to make it OK...Just like someone on a diet...They count every other calorie and then say why didn't I lose weight...You lie to yourself......Wilhelm is a very knowledgeable poster and misses little...I, like you, have a tendency to scan...I am just too busy to read everything but I am sure people do this to me too...

I was trying to figure out how well I would be able to deal with either fault in my husband....Cheating once or a Porn addiction and masturbation that is near impossible to cure.....I guess I would take the cheating once....I could handle that one woman but a whole community of young bodies on the internet and his jacking off his favor that belongs to me, Nope.....

[kaylar]

What most seem to miss, in many relationships
it's not the porn qua porn or the adultery
qua adultery it is the smashing of an image.

Let's take our boy Spitzer.

Everyone thought this was Mr. Clean.
Then we find out this guy spends more
money on prostitutes than most people
make in a year.

This isn't a one off.
This isn't a guy who got drunk or
drugged, and wound up in bed with Kristen...
this is a guy who had Kristen flown from
NY to DC to screw her.

Who is this guy?

That's the outrage.
That's the shock.

In a marriage, you believe you know this
person.

Most of us can pretty much describe exactly
what our husbands are doing...

what stations they listen to on the radio,
what shows they'll watch on TV. What they'll
order at a restaurant.

I remember gushing about Space Ship One and
how I'd love to be on it, and the ball & chain
says, "You can't take the long driving."

We know this person, this person knows us...
then....
all of a sudden...
who is this guy?

[Fallen1]

My response was to THIS.


Any and all information that is NOT in the above paragraph was not reviewed prior to my post. Why? Because I am lazy. I did not bother to read people's minds to come up with an underlying situation.

In future, please be more specific before you ask for opinions.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go hide behind a false wall in the bedroom while I watch my wife fornicate with some underage boy she picked-up at the mall.

If this comment was for me I was specific. I had a simple question as was stated - Why is it that every time a woman gets upset over something her significant other does that hurts her, porn being the main "offense" I'm referring to, most men want to blame her hurt on her being insecure?

I wasn't referring to any one thread or problem in particular, I just quoted that one and used it as an example because the insecurity issue came up again as it has on multiple occasions when the porn issue is addressed here on this board. It never fails, as long as I've been here anyway, that when a woman comes on here trying to get opinions or just to vent her frustrations about the porn issue a guy will almost always bring up that she or anyone else that takes issue with it has an insecurity problem.



I think Kaylar may have just hit on one good reason why this may be -

One of the key features is that men don't take responsibility for their actions. It's always 'her' fault.

That way he is removing any "blame" that could be associated with him and directing it towards her. Sounds to me like this could be a very plausible reason as to why this may occur. ????

The thing that has surprised me most from reading WH is (in general) how much more seriously women take porn than men do.

I wish I could think of an equivalent the other direction, but I can't. I can't think of anything that a significant number women do that men find terribly objectionable, but which causes no physical or financial harm. Can anyone else think of something in this category?

BTW: cheating doesn't count in this - there is a direct physical risk.

You know I myself have sat and tried to think of something but I haven't been successful at it - and I'm in no way saying that there aren't things women do that hurt men. We may never be able to explain the hurt a woman (may) experience in a way that a man might know why or understand it.

Wouldn't it be so much simpler if all things in life were "black and white" and could be explained with just a few words.

[C]

Fallent1 wrote: Wouldn't it be so much simpler if all things in life were "black and white" and could be explained with just a few words.

A woman is born to be a Mother....A caring and devoted person....Most are true to their man and their heart runneth over with love....

A man is a loner....like the animal's, he let's woman get his food....He has progressed in time but has been known to eat his young.....He loves a harem.....He is a stallion with all his mares.....

Isn't there animal in all of us ??????????????

Or did it stay in man and they reflect back in time not knowing why they go there, but they need it and masturbate looking at the mating they wish they had............they reflect and let their mind go back to year's gone by, and they don't even know why??????

You see I like going far out sometimes.......I always have an excuse......She is older and says anything....... .

[Little]

"Isn't there an animal in all of us?"

The resident baby teenager will second that question. Good one, Caroline.

[Guest]

"Isn't there an animal in all of us?"

The resident baby teenager will second that question. Good one, Caroline.

i'll third the question - and answer it: yes.

concluding that men never take responsibiliuty for their actions is dangerous. that kind of thinking will prevent you from seeing this issue - and any others pertaining to marriage - clearly.

men's excusing their use of porn falls into categories. porn appeals to men's vulnerability as visual sexual people - when they fall victim to it they rarely are able to accept criticism quickly because:

1. they truly don't know there's anything wrong
2. they don't know how to take responsibility for this issue (they usually DO say they're sorry, but that doesn't cut it typically. they are sorry for causing pain, but don't know how to force themselves to be sorry for porn when it doesn't feel wrong & so many voices in our world affirm that it is NOT wrong)
3. their use of porn is feeding a deeper issue - one that is often very tough to confront. taking responsibility for porn often involves peeling back a layer of protection - we all, men & women alike - avoid that.

as for maltreatment of our sexual relationships - through porn, marital infidelity, emotional affairs, etc. - women share an equal portion of fault here & they are just as quick to shift responsibility for their actions. men are susceptible to porn & thus make up a greater part of those that use it. but we all are vulnerable sexually. all you need is a pulse to fall victim to the plethora of opportunity for unfaithfulness & betrayal to a marriage.

it's a little silly to try & quantify this issue - men do this this many times & women do that this many times... we can all cite examples where we've seen the mold broken.

but there are undeniable patterns - like men using porn. no one on this board seems to deter from the agreement that most porn use porn. that's obvious. even the polarized posters here agree on that point.

women do the same.

i think at the heart of fallen's question - and what's more important that blaming men or women - is the underlying tendency for both sexes to fail to understand one another.

i wouldn't say that most of us guys who post here are misinformed - but we often display a lack of understanding for the female perspective.

but if folks aren't careful, women will display the same lack of understanding. when that happens no one wins - we're all right & we're all wrong. it's tragic.

if i seek to understand my wife's desires & needs, the way she's wired & how she - her, specifically, not women in general - manifests those things & she does the same regarding me - we can't lose. i'm going to try my hardest to avoid what hurts her & she will do the same. but if either of us falls, we're going to be quick to forgive & partner together to solve the problem, no matter who drew first blood.

all the lines in the sand & the pointing at the a#sholes on the other side can make us feel temporarily better, but it is as much an enemy of healthy relationships as porn is.

i'm responding to many of the responses to fallen's question, not really to her question anymore. her question is a valid one - and it has a few good answers, depending on the situation. typically it does involve a childish avoidance of responsibility. and it's usually the male where porn is involved.

i just hope everyone will be cautious to avoid the trap that both sides can & do fall into where we sweepingly lump an entire gender into a swamp.

there are not many perspectives more uninformed than those that will conclude that all men or all women do anything. there is, indeed, an animal in every one of us.

[hisrose2]

hisrose2

Hello, new to the forum. Haven't done forums much so this is new to me. I was trying to find some posts that was close to my questions. I found these threads and thought I might post here. I really don't have a question - only need to talk to someone who might have some understanding or insight. Here is the readers digest version.
My husband and I have been married for 20 years. We had a very active sex life before we were married, but the minute (and I do mean very quickly) after the wedding, our sex life changed. He seemed to prefer masterbating over sex. Our sex life seemed cyclic, some weeks it was 2 times a week then over the years it has wained. We discussed this, we've fought about this. He has been involved with porn from time to time (magazines) we used to watch together, but then he prefered hiding the fact. I used to get upset over it (how it made me feel) and that we had the agreement that he didn't WANT it to be in his life (his religious beliefs) I actually got to the point where I was trying harder to understand him than be upset with him. (I can't deny, it took a lot of work to get to that point) but I eventually grew tired of putting so much energy into it and being hurt over it. The problem now, is ---he is suffering somewhat with ED (refuses to take pills or anything to help this- he's an all natural kind of guy and is also a Chiropractor, so meds are out for solving the problem). Honestly, I think it's given him a good "out" to having sex with me now AT ALL! My libido has changed too, so it's not that I am angry with him over this. I just wish he wouldn't use it as an excuse. I KNOW he can still get it up, because I've caught him masterbating. Am I doomed to a sexless life? We really do have a wonderful friendship and he is a good partner in life. I guess I just am frustrated. My sister say's most normal women have affairs by now, in a marriage where little sex was happening. He is a faithful man (physically at least, maybe not in his fantacy world) so I know he's not having an affair. He's just not the "normal" male. And he's always preferred masterbation over sex. Is this something that some males just do? I've grown tired of trying to help him in this area. Honestly, I'm glad my own libido now has taperd off. But I still feel somewhat rejected - and not as close to him when we don't have sex, which now, is once every 4-6 months. Is is possible to be happy in a marriage with no sex? I've tried everything I know to try and he just keeps saying he can't get it up. But, he gets it up when he wants it with himself!!! How selfish is that!?