[Allie602]

Being driven on the career side of life really does not always carry over to personal life. I need to be in charge all day, 5 days a week, when I get home don't wish to be in charge of anything but what I would like to cook for dinner and the wine selection. I like to take care of my SO, and not worry about being in charge of anything except myself of course. So I don't think having a strong public persona necessarily means that a woman wants to be in charge at home. I know a lot of successful women who are not the boss at home, by choice.

[Allie602]

You're right, I do need interaction with other people. I do need love. I think what I meant by "I don't need anyone else to be ok" which I didn't explain very well is, I don't need anyone to help support me, I don't need a relationship romantically with a man. I guess in a nutshell, I am not dependent on anyone. I guess that is just my thought process cause I have been on my own with a baby since 17. People were always wondering why I didn't just find some man to take care of me, and I guess that's always stuck in my head.

Being taken care of is a choice not a requirement. The people who assumed you needed a man to take care of you probably didn't know any better. Not needing a man is probably the best way to approach a relationship because when you choose to be with a man he will know that you want to be with him for the love of him not because you need his assets.

Nothing wrong with needing a man in your life, they are irreplaceable. Good to get to know, interesting, different, challenging but they really make you feel alive in many wonderful ways, it's worth the effort to find the right guy. Do you have any male friends or men you work with?

I am not critical of woman who chose to find a man to support them, there are men who look for woman that want that, so there are all kinds of choices when it comes to relationships. You just find someone who with you and can understand and agrees with your choice.

[GetTheDudeDotCom]

When talking to some male friends of mine, the subject of intimidating traits and intimidating females cropped up, one of my male friends stated that when he first met me and was interested in something different to friendship and also some of his friends that I know, find me intimidating as a women, that I have a strong personality, strong minded, speak my mind and that they feel I know my mind (maybe too well), they felt that their masculinity was threatened. I see this as their issue with themselves but I do wonder if people have ever being told that they intimidate males? Can I say this isn't in physical or verbal threatening way, I am not that kind of girl.

An intimidating woman can often be giving off too much masculine energy. That will either scare a man off outright or simply cause him to lose attraction for you. There is a feminine way to be strong and a masculine way. In general, men are attracted to the feminine way.

Actually, i'm interested in understanding why, because i don't think it's a simple case of it's their issue. I see so many women everyday who present this "i'm a strong, tough, independent" woman, giving the impression that they need to do this in order to be taken seriously. It becomes a posture they use in every situation as a way to prove they are strong, independent women, and i'm not sure it's really necessary. It sometimes across as need to show that they can handle or compete with the guys, which seems forced and pushy. I'd say the same thing about males as well. I don't find overly confident or aggressive males attractive. It just looks stupid to me when they do so. It's like if you know who you are, why do you need to prove it?

Now you're getting even more specific about what I'm talking about. In order for a woman to compete with the men, she's got to exercise her masculine side, her masculine energy. She's doing all the leading and competing and she doesn't need a man to do it for her. But what she doesn't realize is that during dating and courtship, attraction doesn't happen if she's in this masculine, business, or competitive mode. She needs to get reacquainted with her feminine side to attract men.

There is no abdication of power in being strong in a feminine way. It's just that many women were not taught in their upbringing how to access that part of themselves and appreciate it.

[WildChild]

An intimidating woman can often be giving off too much masculine energy. That will either scare a man off outright or simply cause him to lose attraction for you. There is a feminine way to be strong and a masculine way. In general, men are attracted to the feminine way.

Now you're getting even more specific about what I'm talking about. In order for a woman to compete with the men, she's got to exercise her masculine side, her masculine energy. She's doing all the leading and competing and she doesn't need a man to do it for her. But what she doesn't realize is that during dating and courtship, attraction doesn't happen if she's in this masculine, business, or competitive mode. She needs to get reacquainted with her feminine side to attract men.

There is no abdication of power in being strong in a feminine way. It's just that many women were not taught in their upbringing how to access that part of themselves and appreciate it.

Good observations, but speaking as a woman who works in a 'male' field, it's a no win situation for a woman. If you come off as feminine you are dismissed outright, if you are 'strong' or decisive then you are 'difficult' and a betch. If you ask questions then you are seen not as seeking to improve, but as less competent. If you make statements, you are a know it all. If there is a problem and you try to get clarification or redress, you are a PIA or whiny.
You can provide information or skills that help everyone do a better job but it will be taken for granted, 99% of the time kudos will go to the guy who utilized it successfully.

Studies have been done that have shown that when men and women are trained identically to lead a group in a very scripted and controlled activity, the men will be evaluated by participants as strong, competent leaders and the women using the same words, same vocal intonations, will be seen as controlling, betchy....

Oh and men do not date women they work with in these fields. They might date the office staff but not women in the field, f-buddy maybe, but no hearts and flowers. I've talked to other women who work in 'male' feilds and find quite a universality of experience.

[GetTheDudeDotCom]

Good observations, but speaking as a woman who works in a 'male' field, it's a no win situation for a woman. If you come off as feminine you are dismissed outright, if you are 'strong' or decisive then you are 'difficult' and a betch. If you ask questions then you are seen not as seeking to improve, but as less competent. If you make statements, you are a know it all. If there is a problem and you try to get clarification or redress, you are a PIA or whiny.
You can provide information or skills that help everyone do a better job but it will be taken for granted, 99% of the time kudos will go to the guy who utilized it successfully.

Studies have been done that have shown that when men and women are trained identically to lead a group in a very scripted and controlled activity, the men will be evaluated by participants as strong, competent leaders and the women using the same words, same vocal intonations, will be seen as controlling, betchy....

Certainly in the workplace there is a double-standard. And as I alluded to earlier, business really is all about masculine energy, at least for now. It could eventually balance out in the future. In the arena of dating and courtship, a woman appears more attractive when she's feeling and being more feminine. Many women can consciously go between both modes, but it is a skill.

Oh and men do not date women they work with in these fields. They might date the office staff but not women in the field, f-buddy maybe, but no hearts and flowers. I've talked to other women who work in 'male' feilds and find quite a universality of experience.

I think you are reinforcing what I'm saying already. When women exercise their masculine energy in the workplace, or anywhere else, it is probably a sexual turnoff for men. But I do agree it would certainly be a romantic turnoff.

Would you even want to date a coworker?

[Hopeless Dork]

I like a guy that is sensitive and caring , I hate macho jerks... but i like men that look like men, that dress like men, etc.. its what is attractive to me about men. If I met a guy that was dressed feminine or had a feminine demeanor I would probably not be attracted.

So I can understand why a man that see's a woman in the same coveralls he has on or that is spittin dip in a coffee can like him might not find himself attracted either... but he probably would be turned off if dating a total priss the entire time that never got her hands dirty ever... I think he'd love the fact that a girl shared his same interests (even if they were masculine interests like cars and sports or hobbys and skills that are generally considered 'mens stuff' if she was able to still be feminine in ways that attract him sexually though.

[GetTheDudeDotCom]

I like a guy that is sensitive and caring , I hate macho jerks... but i like men that look like men, that dress like men, etc.. its what is attractive to me about men. If I met a guy that was dressed feminine or had a feminine demeanor I would probably not be attracted.

So I can understand why a man that see's a woman in the same coveralls he has on or that is spittin dip in a coffee can like him might not find himself attracted either... but he probably would be turned off if dating a total priss the entire time that never got her hands dirty ever... I think he'd love the fact that a girl shared his same interests (even if they were masculine interests like cars and sports or hobbys and skills that are generally considered 'mens stuff' if she was able to still be feminine in ways that attract him sexually though.

That's right. There is a way to get your hands dirty and still be feminine and attractive. It's all about your energy and how you carry yourself, not necessarily about what you do.

There is a feminine warrior archetype that men find very attractive. These characters appear in a lot of science fiction/fantasy movies and comics. They have all the sexual allure of feminine woman but all the fighting ability of a warrior. Sarah Connor, Princess Leia, Elektra, Wonder Woman, etc. Tomboys can be cute too.

[Hopeless Dork]

There are many dominant strong women that manage to have a high sex appeal... like any character angelina jolie has ever played... shes tough, she can do anything a man can do... but still carries herself in a way that can only be described as WOMAN. But another beautiful woman, Demi Moore, in her role in I think it was "disclosure" or something like that... saw a show on the other day where they talked about her character being so immasculating that it alienated her male audience and turned them off of her and thats where he popularity started to fall. I guess its a delicate balance. Pretty much I think if the chick is dressed scantily clad, has amazingly sexy body and beautiful face, she can smoke cigars and be convered in automotive oil and men will still think she's feminine... ordinary women probably don't have that luxary !

[GetTheDudeDotCom]

There are many dominant strong women that manage to have a high sex appeal... like any character angelina jolie has ever played... shes tough, she can do anything a man can do... but still carries herself in a way that can only be described as WOMAN. But another beautiful woman, Demi Moore, in her role in I think it was "disclosure" or something like that... saw a show on the other day where they talked about her character being so immasculating that it alienated her male audience and turned them off of her and thats where he popularity started to fall. I guess its a delicate balance. Pretty much I think if the chick is dressed scantily clad, has amazingly sexy body and beautiful face, she can smoke cigars and be convered in automotive oil and men will still think she's feminine... ordinary women probably don't have that luxary !

Yes, but if your man is already into you and you smoke a cigar with your body covered in oil it won't change his opinion of you either! You're the real woman he's with and she's a 2D fantasy on a screen somewhere. Trust me when I tell you it's more about your sexy feminine vibe than anything else. Demi Moore's character in that movie must have been using extremely masculine energy. I haven't seen it.

[WildChild]

I think you are reinforcing what I'm saying already. When women exercise their masculine energy in the workplace, or anywhere else, it is probably a sexual turnoff for men. But I do agree it would certainly be a romantic turnoff.

Would you even want to date a coworker?

A man I was very much involved with got me into the job I have currently. We are no long seeing each other.

I dress as neatly as the job permits, always wear earrings, often wear make up although a ton of suncreen can vanish that pretty quick. My clothing leaves no doubt as to my gender - I'm not into drab or baggy. My tools on my truck are all painted pink. I always wear gloves when doing anything messy. I tease about having to work smart cause I can't work strong.

I don't know how old you are but I've been dealing with this since I was the first girl in my school district to take drafting in 1971. I'm hardly unattractive. I'm just about sick of the BS, I'm not an airhead obsessed with hair and fingernails and I won't pretend to be. I know how to walk and move in heels and a dress - something few young women seem to know. I clean up pretty darned good.
I see this as a male insecurity issue.