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Any women or men here that don't believe in going dutch?

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  • Any women or men here that don't believe in going dutch?

    I know this is a hot topic, as I'm reading a lot of dating advice and articles that think that a man paying for dates and courting a woman is unfair, or that woman that like to be pampered are spoiled and entitled.

    I was raised that going dutch when dating is a foreign concept. When you're married or engaged, of course you share your money. I understand going dutch on dates boomed out of the feminist era, but my parents weren't from that era. I was raised to believe that a man that's absolutely crazy about you won't make a fuss about paying nor will he accuse women of being spoiled brats. If a man starts to complain about money or accuses women of being spoiled and entitled brats, then I was also raised to believe that it's an indication of how he will treat you later on in the long-term. I do have evidence to show that the men I've met, who were stingy and protective of their money, did end up having misogynistic views and didn't trust women.

    I'm just wondering if people in 2012 still feel the same, or is it expected that both people pay their own way all of the time?

    When I say that I agree about a man paying, I don't mean that he has to pay for EVERTHING. An ex accused me of wanting the man to pay for everything, but I've reciprocated by getting coffee, ice cream or doing something special on a guy's birthday or on valentine's day. You can reciprocate and appreciate your man treating you in numerous non-financial ways (cooking him a meal, etc). Just because you allow a man to pay doesn't mean you're just sitting there and not doing anything.


    Now, it's a totally different thing when a man doesn't want to pay and the woman is forcing him to. I don't believe in that. If a man and I have different views on money, then we're just not a good fit and we say goodbye. Heck, I've met men that also force their girlfriends to pay for everything, and the women are okay with it. There are couples where both parties agree to split the bill, and that's fine too.

    But, I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman recognizing that some men want to provide for the women that they love. Why is a man showing his ability to provide prized in other cultures, but taboo to talk about in America? If I posted this topic somewhere else, I'm I sure I would cause an outrage to both men and women. People here are very set on paying their own way and proving that they don't need anybody?
    "Dating is like slow dancing. Let the man lead, or you will fall all over your feet"

  • For me it usually depended on who made the date, how long we'd been together, and how they felt about it. Often I would ask guys out on dates, and then pay for it as well. I think so long as nobody is being used, or "kept in their place" it doesn't really matter.

    Comment


    • I guess I'm "old fashioned"...whatever that means. I'm from the generation that a man pays...period.

      Has nothing to do with the women's movement, and no, I'm not a biggot or a pig, etc. I've been in a relationship for quite a while and I still pay. Yeah, it's really nice when she pays for something unexpectedly, like ice cream, etc. I also don't believe or agree that "it's a new time, for a new generation..." That's bunk! - IMO. If men had any class or respect for the woman they are seeing for the first time (date) or the fifty first, they'd pay.

      Men, if you can't afford it, then don't ask a woman out...or get another job. Women deserve to be treated with a higher level of decency than most of "today's rules" or "what's considered acceptable" allow.

      My grandparents were married 73 years and 66 respectively and my parents have been married more than 60 years. In all three cases, the men honored, cherished and respected their wives, in part, by doing ALL of the "courting" (paying).

      Just my old fashioned opinion....

      Comment


      • I'm with Rosekitten. It depends.

        I guess generally the man will pay, unless I want to insist to pay my part or both parts. I would usually only insist on paying my part if I wanted to define the outing as NOT A DATE. Friend zoning, if you will. Just because I'll share a meal with a guy doesn't mean I want to share my sex life. If the insistence is because the guy is in dire straits financially and I just wanted to see him, I'll usually insist to pay the whole meal.
        If a guy was courting me and paid for formal dates, I would try to reciprocate like you mentioned, Magnetism, by providing desert or cooking for him on another date. Most of the guys I've dated have been pretty formal and firm about paying for dinner at restaurants, but they have been more flexible about my paying for ice cream or groceries. Culture is weird!
        <center><i>Nature gives us shapeless shapes,<br>Clouds and waves and flame,<br>But human expectation is that love remains the same,<br>And when it doesn’t, we point our fingers and blame.</i><br><a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/register.php">Register</a>|<a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/members/little.html">Contact Admin</a>|<a href="mailto:support*womens-health.com?subject=Forum Contact">Email Admin</a></center>

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        • See, even my guy friends and I fight over who gets to pay. lol They all know that we're just friends, so it's not about sex, but it is a game of speed. Shoot, I even do that with my FIL who is very old-school "women don't pay." Honestly, I did date one man who got super upset by me wanting to pay for the meal, because it wasn't "my place" to pay because "if we were to stay together I'd have to get used to just using his money since I wouldn't have any of my own." He didn't get another date. He didn't even get to finish the date we were on, I called a friend and had them come get me, because I couldn't believe that someone would speak to me that way.

          But, barring hurt feelings or demanding expectations- I think it's fun to take turns paying for things.

          Comment


          • Sometimes he pays the entire bill and sometimes I do. It's not about splitting the cost half way, it's just about being fair that one party doesn't get the financial burden. When I was dating, I never even thought about it. My husband said that when I offered to pay for a date, he really liked that. He said that while dating, women who expected the men to pay for everything usually ended up being a certain type and he really didn't like them. It was not about the actual money spent ( because he made 3 times what I did) it was the sentiment. Also, doing stuff like cooking dinner etc also counted.
            Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster (sung by Janis Joplin)

            Comment


            • I agree that whoever asks for the date should pay. But, the same men that complain about money are the same people that are the ones choosing expensive restaurants, ime. thanks for your replies, as I also go Dutch when I'm not interested in a man. Its my nice way of saying " let's be friends.". I think it's different when a woman offers to pay out of the goodness of her heart versus the man saying " we're going to split the bill.". When a man asked me to pay, I would dO it out of courtesy. In the back of my head, I would wonder the same things seeker advice is asking about. My good guy friend interestingly doesn't let me pay when I offer. This is a man that's the most craziest about me. He was raised that men pay, and he doesn't make much money. I guess it depends on the persons values.
              "Dating is like slow dancing. Let the man lead, or you will fall all over your feet"

              Comment


              • Depends on who asked who out. If I ask her out and she comes, I should pay because it was me inviteing her.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Seeker_Advice View Post
                  I guess I'm "old fashioned"...whatever that means. I'm from the generation that a man pays...period.
                  I am also from that background.

                  Sometimes a woman would always order the most expensive thing on the menu and another to go. That gave a man an insight into how a woman would act in a relationship. If the woman is buying and the guy acts like this, take it as a red flag. Stingy is not good and neither is wanton spending. Some spend money like it is burning a hole in their pocket: that is not good because the good times will not last forever. Paying for everything was no guarantee of anything, not even a kiss.
                  I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience.
                  ...
                  Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

                  From a speech by Patrick Henry on March 23, 1775 at St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia

                  Comment


                  • To me... the whole who pays thing.. from dates to relationships is based on who has it to spend, really. If you're a well paid professional man and you're taking out a waitress - pay. Just pay. Or at least offer to pay. Good grief In that same vein, if you are a well paid professional female and you are taking out a guy you know has struggles. Pay. Just pay.

                    If you are on equal playing field as far as what you have goes... then I think whoever MAKES the date, asks for the date should pay, or at the very least offer to pay.

                    If a guy asks you where you want to eat and you know good and well he's struggling, and you pick a place out of his budget, you should pay or at least offer to pay.

                    I've never been one to expect to be treated like a princess. I don't ask for things I know my bf can't afford, I don't push for us to go on expensive dates or any of that. I'm broke, so when we do go out, yeah, he usually foots it. But I never demand we go out and to be honest I'm much happier staying in.

                    First dates when you guys don't know much about each other, I'm sorry.. I think the man really should pay. It throws everything off balance if he doesn't.. call me old fashioned on that one. But after that first date.. who pays should be related to who can afford to pay, and obviously if a woman or man can't afford to pay -- they should be requesting home dates, park dates, etc. It's silly to ask someone out and then also expect THEM to foot the bill for YOUR plans.
                    Scars remind us of where we've been...they don't have to dictate where we're going.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jns View Post
                      I am also from that background.

                      Sometimes a woman would always order the most expensive thing on the menu and another to go. That gave a man an insight into how a woman would act in a relationship. If the woman is buying and the guy acts like this, take it as a red flag. Stingy is not good and neither is wanton spending. Some spend money like it is burning a hole in their pocket: that is not good because the good times will not last forever. Paying for everything was no guarantee of anything, not even a kiss.
                      I wouldn't order the most expensive thing on the menu. In fact, I suggested to an ex-boyfriend that we stay home and cook, if finances were an issue for him. He turned the offer down, and wanted to go to pricey restaurants. He also would drop $1000 dollars on technology stuff, but would complain about not having enough money the next day. Everybody has the right to spend their money as they wish, but I'm concerned that one's spending habits reflect what kind of parent they will be (like going out to expensive restaurants and then complaining about the bill). What if my future kids need something important? Is a man going to say "I don't have enough money to buy you clothes, but I'm going to spend $500 on this new ipad for myself." . I know how children are affected by selfish parenting, so that's the last thing I would want to put my future children through.

                      I asked this question, because the man that I dated several months ago guilted me for being a gold-digger and said most men wouldn't want to date me. What's funny is that the Eastern European country he's originally from also didn't believe in going "dutch", but this was something that he was adamant about. My female friend from his country said "If he were to go back to Russia, women wouldn't consider him a catch with his kind of attitude. The men over there would even wipe off a seat clean just let a lady sit." He did say that he didn't like the women from his country, because they "cleaned men out." I don't think that's true. It's just that they were raised differently.
                      "Dating is like slow dancing. Let the man lead, or you will fall all over your feet"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hopeless Dork View Post
                        To me... the whole who pays thing.. from dates to relationships is based on who has it to spend, really. If you're a well paid professional man and you're taking out a waitress - pay. Just pay. Or at least offer to pay. Good grief In that same vein, if you are a well paid professional female and you are taking out a guy you know has struggles. Pay. Just pay.

                        If you are on equal playing field as far as what you have goes... then I think whoever MAKES the date, asks for the date should pay, or at the very least offer to pay.

                        If a guy asks you where you want to eat and you know good and well he's struggling, and you pick a place out of his budget, you should pay or at least offer to pay.

                        I've never been one to expect to be treated like a princess. I don't ask for things I know my bf can't afford, I don't push for us to go on expensive dates or any of that. I'm broke, so when we do go out, yeah, he usually foots it. But I never demand we go out and to be honest I'm much happier staying in.

                        First dates when you guys don't know much about each other, I'm sorry.. I think the man really should pay. It throws everything off balance if he doesn't.. call me old fashioned on that one. But after that first date.. who pays should be related to who can afford to pay, and obviously if a woman or man can't afford to pay -- they should be requesting home dates, park dates, etc. It's silly to ask someone out and then also expect THEM to foot the bill for YOUR plans.

                        This is all true, but in my last relationship-I was the one struggling whereas the man I was dating was quite well off. His reasoning for not paying was "I don't see why I should pay just because you're a woman. That's so entitled." I joked back saying "I'm sorry I was born with a vag********ina."


                        I hate to say this, but my financial stress was impacting the relationship I was in. There were many times where I wanted to stay home and relax, but my ex pushed to go out as much as possible and wanted me to spend my money on things that I didn't need. He would encourage me to buy ipads, which I have no interest in. He would tell me, "Don't worry about building a savings account. Who cares?" Huh? I think it's important to build a savings account for life emergencies.

                        I ended up giving in to his pleas just to be sweet, but I wish I was assertive enough to say "No sweetie. I'm going to stay home." I even would tell him "I barely have any money in my bank account left."When we were driving, I would also drive 45 minutes to his apartment and let him drive my car around the city. He said his car was old and broken, so he wanted to use my car every weekend. Given all of the gas money I must have spent for when dating, I think my financial contribution evens out with his. After we broke up, he went and bought a new car. He would call me an entitled gold-digger, but I felt like he was the one mooching off of me in some ways? I did say "If you're so worried about money, let me pay you back" I said this when we broke up. He got angry and said "I'm so insulted that you would offer me your money!" Wait, didn't you say that you want a woman that pays for half of the date? Why is it a big deal if I offer to pay you back for all the dates that you took me out on?

                        This relationship is over anyways, and I actually got offered a higher paying job just a few months ago. I'm enjoying the single life and am quite amazed that my male friends want to pay for me when they're not even dating me. I guess I'm trying to understand why my ex was so fussy about money. Maybe he was using it as a weapon or maybe he was trying to find a way to justify the break-up. Luckily, no man in my life so far has acted like this particular ex-boyfriend.
                        "Dating is like slow dancing. Let the man lead, or you will fall all over your feet"

                        Comment


                        • Sounds like he was using it as a weapon, or at least a conversation piece. An excuse to complain and get you riled up, keep you under his thumb because he was sooooo put out to be paying your way at restaurants and you should "feel bad." It sounds like you guys were actually on pretty even keels to me.

                          I think it's important that people understand the social niceties that are required of them, but not take advantage. Men understand that there's an expectation that they pay for restaurants on dates - women should understand that this can be a pretty hefty financial requirement and order accordingly. I can't imagine someone who thinks they should order a to-go meal on someone else's dime, and that certainly says something about who she is. Just as it says something about a guy when he complains tirelessly throughout a relationship about paying but refuses any kind of more equal payment system. Maybe it's because of something in his past, some woman who really WAS a gold digger taking advantage of him, but whether or not there's a past event to trigger it, he's still acting out because of it now ... so it's part of his personality.
                          <center><i>Nature gives us shapeless shapes,<br>Clouds and waves and flame,<br>But human expectation is that love remains the same,<br>And when it doesn’t, we point our fingers and blame.</i><br><a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/register.php">Register</a>|<a href="http://www.womens-health.com/boards/members/little.html">Contact Admin</a>|<a href="mailto:support*womens-health.com?subject=Forum Contact">Email Admin</a></center>

                          Comment


                          • ???This is a question? (just joking I swear) But in the overwhelming majority of situations I pay on a date. I "expect to". Having my "companion" pick up the bill "occassionally" is a very nice surprise and tells me wonderful things about her "character". But;(snort snort MCP) I am in a much better financial position to pay. Yes I have dated some women far better able to pay ANY bill than I am...but they are usually "on guard" for the would be leach. Most "activities" I take dates on are not very expensive; (tickets for major performances being the exception),but the really "high-priced" type of events are things that I take a person that I am VERY serious about to.

                            Comment


                            • Little-He didn't bring up the money issue until the 12th month of dating, which is when we were on the verge of breaking up. He could have had the opportunity to bring up his views much earlier on if he felt he was wasting time. Before him, none of my exes discussed splitting the bill. In fact, they were offended at me offering to pay, so those experiences stuck in my head that men felt threatened or would decline when you offered to pay.

                              I told him that I understand my ex's opinion of wanting both sexes to go dutch, BUT I also said I understand why people want to stick with the old-fashioned view. He said that he wanted me to adopt his opinion, but we can't force people to change their beliefs. The male posters themselves have done a great job explaining why they prefer to pay. It's about showing the woman you're with that she's special and you're serious about her. When my ex started to complain about money, it did correlate with how he treated me towards the end of the relationship. He also revealed that he was unsure about marriage and kids.
                              When I go on dates, I let the guy choose and plan. That gives him the opportunity to take charge and decide what's in his budget. If someone asks me to think of something, I choose coffee dates b/c they're cheap and put no pressure on the other person. Expensive dinners can come later on when you're serious about someone.
                              "Dating is like slow dancing. Let the man lead, or you will fall all over your feet"

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